Our Young Talls

[gbatman]

I wonder if there is any chance that Mitchell could be a part time ruckman as another role he could play.

 

[TheSituation23]

What is classed as a young tall?

Our 19 year olds:

Watson, Matthew (195cm) - Will have to learn to be of value up forward or tighten up on his man. .. may get a few games as a third tall
Bray, Blake *R* (191cm) - No real knowledge of his status or ability (remain a rookie?)
McInnes, Andrew (191cm) - Needs to get fit first, more a flanker at this point
Mitchell, Luke (198cm) - The guy looks a beast in the Kreuzer mould, should get an opportunity up forward once fit
McCarthy, Patrick (196cm) - Needs another season I feel, will get looked at as a forward surely

21yo:

Casboult, Levi *R* (198cm) - Another year as a rookie and has a list of things to keep developing, takes a nice grab
Henderson, Lachlan (196cm) - CHB or CHF, either way if he keeps fit he'll be start 22 for a while yet

22yo:

Kreuzer, Matthew (200cm) - Knee injury has set him back, will be better for another pre-season. ..
Austin, Mark (193cm) - My tip for a delist but if he gets another season will need to step up as he approaches peak age

23yo:

White, Simon (190cm) - Too sort for a KPP role but punches above his weight like Walker, would make a good depth for Walker too
Hampson, Shaun (201cm) - Hope he re-signs, Warnock better take a look over his shoulder
Bower, Paul (192cm) - Erratic and injury prone and is short for a KPP and we have too many young third tall options. .. Might get one more year and could do anything. ..

IMHO their order of likelihood to play is:

Defenders: Henderson, Lachlan*, Watson**, Bower, McInnes, Bray, Austin

Forwards: Kreuzer, Matthew, Hampson, Mitchell, White*, Casboult, McCarthy**

Bold is automatic starting 22 at this stage

*Swing man
** Potential swing man

i can tell you that blake bray wont make it as a AFL player. mate was at the ants over pre-season this year and said the bloke is hopeless. he might of improved i dont not but i doubt he will make it past next year at the most

 

[zeeCFC]

i can tell you that blake bray wont make it as a AFL player. mate was at the ants over pre-season this year and said the bloke is hopeless. he might of improved i dont not but i doubt he will make it past next year at the most

Weird basis for an assessment.

Off topic, how'd you choose the username "TheSituation23"? Noticed on Twitter Hendo's team mates might be calling him that too.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

i can tell you that blake bray wont make it as a AFL player. mate was at the ants over pre-season this year and said the bloke is hopeless. he might of improved i dont not but i doubt he will make it past next year at the most

Did your mate make the Ants?

I think that Levi and Matthew will get between 6-10 games next year.

I cannot see Levi making a fair-dinkum Top 4 side that prides itself on F50 pressure.

 

[Claypigeon]

Moreso the untried.
We don't really need to debate as to whether Kreuzer or Henderson are up to, as it is pretty evident.

We do have the 5 boys listed in the OP, that will all be vying to make their marks next year.
We all see something different in each of the boys and the pros and cons are of particular interest.

I found it funny watching some of those boys that looked like fish out of water earlier this year amongst our established list.
McCarthy just swore when he couldn't keep up with the other boys.
Mitchell dropped his head as if in shame when he kept dropping the ball, in a speed handball drill and Watson couldn't turn tightly to save himself.

One year on and it will be a somewhat different proposition when the training starts.
Who will make it and why?

Basically I thought its not worth talking about our youth stocks in isolation. .. especially as there were unnamed guys in the same age brackets. .. Stacking them up against others yet to reach their apparent peak years (24+) gives an idea of their position on the list. ..

 

[rp84]

Guys, I want to try get some honest opinions about where Simon White will be come delisting time.

I like his pros; i.e. competes hard, and is tough, is also pretty good on the lead

He doesn't really have many other attributes though: isn't overly quick, or athletic, average skills, and is not KPP height (I know Laidler is shorter, but has many more attributes as a defender and on the attack)

I love his work ethic, but honestly can't see him lasting on the list with all these upand coming talls.

I would prefer to take another year gamble on Austin. He at least has height, is also pretty tough in the contest, and if somehow stays fit is a very good KPP prospect. At worst, is a solid 4th or 5th tall on the defensive depth chart.

Thoughts?

 

[rp84]

Can't say for sure rp84 although White is contracted for another year.

We may not get the opportunity to retain Austin for next year, as he is out of contract.

Guess it makes him more likely. Really want to see him get a run for a year. Injuries blow.

With list positions at a premium, a contracted player may still be delisted?

 

[Claypigeon]

Not really sure what you mean there Cp.

There are plenty of 20 year old KPP players getting regular games for other teams and this will be the age of these kids in question, by the start of next season.

We have a healthy crop of relative untried talent that some may be able to lend a little bit of insight into.
I wonder as to how our footballing department view this crop of kids, and what expectations may be imposed upon them for next year.

Understand your point however my premise was that in order to see where or if those untried lads potentially fit in to the side, you have to look at the other developing KPP lads they are competing with and the relative pecking order at this time. ..

Basically I just wanted to approach the question from a different angle

 

[TheSituation23]

Weird basis for an assessment.

Off topic, how'd you choose the username "TheSituation23"? Noticed on Twitter Hendo's team mates might be calling him that too.

jersey shore and 23 was just a number i like couldent think of anything better at the time i would laugh if hendo is the situation based of jersey shore aswell.

just an opininon mate but i'll say it now he wont make it.

 

[TheSituation23]

Did your mate make the Ants? I cannot see Levi making a fair-dinkum Top 4 side that prides itself on F50 pressure.

no he didnt deserves it though.
you ask why= HEIGHT.

 

[Blueboys7]

no he didnt deserves it though.
you ask why= HEIGHT.

Saad isn't in the team because of height either...oh wait.

 

[Silvagnis]

Saad isn't in the team because of height either...oh wait.

Bransgrove...

Hampson towered over Austin who towered over Mclean who towered over Bransgrove.

They looked like Russian Dolls standing next to each other.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Guys, I want to try get some honest opinions about where Simon White will be come delisting time.

I like his pros; i.e. competes hard, and is tough, is also pretty good on the lead

He doesn't really have many other attributes though: isn't overly quick, or athletic, average skills, and is not KPP height (I know Laidler is shorter, but has many more attributes as a defender and on the attack)

I love his work ethic, but honestly can't see him lasting on the list with all these upand coming talls.

I would prefer to take another year gamble on Austin. He at least has height, is also pretty tough in the contest, and if somehow stays fit is a very good KPP prospect. At worst, is a solid 4th or 5th tall on the defensive depth chart.

Thoughts?

Austin gone, couldn't even play like 5 games this year.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

no he didnt deserves it though.
you ask why= HEIGHT.

Is that his excuse, or your excuse for him?

 

[audas]

What is classed as a young tall?

Our 19 year olds:

Watson, Matthew (195cm) - Will have to learn to be of value up forward or tighten up on his man. .. may get a few games as a third tall
Bray, Blake *R* (191cm) - No real knowledge of his status or ability (remain a rookie?)
McInnes, Andrew (191cm) - Needs to get fit first, more a flanker at this point
Mitchell, Luke (198cm) - The guy looks a beast in the Kreuzer mould, should get an opportunity up forward once fit
McCarthy, Patrick (196cm) - Needs another season I feel, will get looked at as a forward surely

21yo:

Casboult, Levi *R* (198cm) - Another year as a rookie and has a list of things to keep developing, takes a nice grab
Henderson, Lachlan (196cm) - CHB or CHF, either way if he keeps fit he'll be start 22 for a while yet

22yo:

Kreuzer, Matthew (200cm) - Knee injury has set him back, will be better for another pre-season. ..
Austin, Mark (193cm) - My tip for a delist but if he gets another season will need to step up as he approaches peak age

23yo:

White, Simon (190cm) - Too sort for a KPP role but punches above his weight like Walker, would make a good depth for Walker too
Hampson, Shaun (201cm) - Hope he re-signs, Warnock better take a look over his shoulder
Bower, Paul (192cm) - Erratic and injury prone and is short for a KPP and we have too many young third tall options. .. Might get one more year and could do anything. ..

IMHO their order of likelihood to play is:

Defenders: Henderson*, Watson**, Bower, McInnes, Bray, Austin

Forwards: Kreuzer, Hampson, Mitchell, White*, Casboult, McCarthy**

Bold is automatic starting 22 at this stage

*Swing man
** Potential swing man

This is a great post, puts things in perspective - cheers


Heard some commentators on the up and commers mention Mitchell as a potential jonathon brown - really big call considering, but have heard similar comparisons since.

nom, nom - fap.

 

[tipstar]

Luke Mitchell is 198 cms and 94 kgs, i see no other reason barring either injury or fitness not to throw him in straight away.

Kicked 5 in tac cup granny and seeing what jack darling has been able to do there no reason why he can't.

Again like I said earlier other than barring injury I say throw him in early and see what happens.....

It can't hurt, if we gave Watson an early crack I can't see us not giving him one if we don't pick anyone up.

PS it still hurts....

 

[Teagueeee15]

I don't see Casboult making it in the AFL. He's probably the best contested mark on our list, but he doesn't have a good all round game that is needed from a key forward to play a forward press. If he fails to take the mark then he's pretty much out of the contest. He isn't good below his knees, he doesn't have good agility, he's not great at putting on forward pressure, he doesn't have a good engine and his kicking at goal is like Travis Cloke. What he does do well is he creates a contests and crashes packs - bringing ball to ground for the crumbers. Overall I think the negatives outweigh the positives, but I wouldn't have a problem with him getting an extra year on the rookie list if it means he gets a strong pre season into his body.

 

[Teagueeee15]

We're pondering as to where our next "tall" will come from yet we aren't even bothering to look into our own back yard.

Watson & McCarthy may well be another year or two away from becoming serious contenders, but given every opportunity next year, keep an eye out on Mitchell.

Many may have not seen much of him as yet, but that may change as early as next year.
Let's hope he has got himself a "Walker" type shoulder job, that has limited his career for the past year with Carlton and the one prior playing in the TAC.

McCarthy is definitely a 2013 prospect based on what I saw this season. He had some good games up forward and down back, but the core strength probably wont be there for another two pre seasons. Brian Lake gave him a bit of a touch up in strength battles, which highlights where McCarthy is in his development. Watson could be an option in 2012, it will just depend on how quickly he improves his one on one defensive work. When this improves I think we will see him stop trailing his opponent so much.

The only bit of Mitchell i've seen is a 5 minute highlights package on youtube so I can't really add any info about him.

Mcinnes wont be a key position player I don't think. Andy Otten is a good comparison in playing style because he could pinch hit as a KPP due to height, but a tall flanker is most likely his position.

 

[goreds]

Austin gone, couldn't even play like 5 games this year.

That's a great reason to delist someone...

 

[Dramoth]

I don't see Casboult making it in the AFL. He's probably the best contested mark on our list, but he doesn't have a good all round game that is needed from a key forward to play a forward press. If he fails to take the mark then he's pretty much out of the contest. He isn't good below his knees, he doesn't have good agility, he's not great at putting on forward pressure, he doesn't have a good engine and his kicking at goal is like Travis Cloke. What he does do well is he creates a contests and crashes packs - bringing ball to ground for the crumbers. Overall I think the negatives outweigh the positives, but I wouldn't have a problem with him getting an extra year on the rookie list if it means he gets a strong pre season into his body.

I must have the same glasses as you.
Really want to pump the kid up, but just can't see how he'd make the transition from VFL to AFL.

Casboult is only 21 (I think) and is just starting out. We have put 2 years into him to try and get him to AFL level... I think that it would be best to leave him as a rookie next year and make him the nominated rookie.

I am going to make a wild assumption that Curnow and Touhy will be promoted this year to the senior list and considering that Scotto wont be eligible to go on the veterans list until 2013, we can still have a nominated rookie at the start of the year so why not make it Levi.

 

[TheSituation23]

Is that his excuse, or your excuse for him?

my excuse. take a look at how many players are going around local teams dominating and then take a look at how many shit ***** are going around in the afl.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I fully expect a couple of these young talls to step up and become permanent best 22 players over the next couple of years.

For that reason, rather than looking to paying a premium for a young gun KPP like Reid or a Gunston or someone like that, I would be happy to get a late 20s-30yr old KPP who can hold a spot for two seasons.

Our window is open now. Just think if you could add a Pavlich to the side for 2 seasons. Equal flag favourites instantly. Of course we don't want to give away a top 10 player to get a player like that and one of our draft picks is spoken for already.

If fit, I would look at Lake on that basis. Great set of hands. He, Jamo and Hendo can easily swing between forward and back key posts. His existing contract is his main problem as he would not command a huge price as a trade.

I know we are fixated on youth and players that we can hold on to for 10 years plus, but 2012 is a year we really need to capitalise on.

Right now we have Henderson and Jamison locked in to key positions. We need 2 more and playing a ruckman at FF has not been the answer for us. Thornton, Bower and Setanta are also depth options as they do not play tall enough consistently enough or are honest toilers. Waite too is probably better placed on a flank. I'd use one of these guys in a key post, probably rotating and get one more key position player to fill a void until Watson/Mitchell are ready.

 

[Claypigeon]

I fully expect a couple of these young talls to step up and become permanent best 22 players over the next couple of years.

For that reason, rather than looking to paying a premium for a young gun KPP like Reid or a Gunston or someone like that, I would be happy to get a late 20s-30yr old KPP who can hold a spot for two seasons.

Our window is open now. Just think if you could add a Pavlich to the side for 2 seasons. Equal flag favourites instantly. Of course we don't want to give away a top 10 player to get a player like that and one of our draft picks is spoken for already.

If fit, I would look at Lake on that basis. Great set of hands. He, Jamo and Hendo can easily swing between forward and back key posts. His existing contract is his main problem as he would not command a huge price as a trade.

I know we are fixated on youth and players that we can hold on to for 10 years plus, but 2012 is a year we really need to capitalise on.

Right now we have Henderson and Jamison locked in to key positions. We need 2 more and playing a ruckman at FF has not been the answer for us. Thornton, Bower and Setanta are also depth options as they do not play tall enough consistently enough or are honest toilers. Waite too is probably better placed on a flank. I'd use one of these guys in a key post, probably rotating and get one more key position player to fill a void until Watson/Mitchell are ready.

Good points ODN. .. Believe a capable but affordable KPP would be best however we need to do minimal damage to the current playing list and shouldn't try to over reach (Voss style) and we should try to mirror the success that Collingwood had with Ball/Jolly (if possible). ..

Lake would be an interesting option but we'd need to keep him on a tight contract and restrict it to 1+1, especially if the dollars are high. ..

 

[True_Blue3]

we need to get rid of Austin and white and start getting game time into Casboult,McCarthy and watson

 

[bluekidjoe]

Our team is one of the most versatile, if not the most, in the league at present. As ODN said, if we got Lake over (provided upon assessment he still looks appealing to the up-tops) then he could be a swinging tall who can take a grab and provide a target. Cant remember, how is he as a goal kicker?

HF: Garlett, Waite, Walker
F: Betts, Lake, Kreuzer

Allowing Hendo to stay CHB

Or

B: Laidler, Jamo, Bower
HB: Duigan, Lake, Yarran

Allowing Hendo to move forward.

Not overly confident in it, but it could be an option to consider as we wait for Mitchell and Watto to develop.