Business & Finance Owning stuff is nice

[Messenger]

Whoa dude, you had to take it to the arts.

Did you pay 1000s for it? Will it hold its value?

Remember this is about depreciation too. Fridges and couches are worth nothing once they've been used.

People don't touch paintings every day and they don't wear down from usage like a fridge/couch does.

A piece of art is something that can hold value. Not a big waste of money in that case.

I think the question you're really asking is about utility. The expensive item versus the cheaper cousin. One might last longer and look prettier while they do the same task. Or they might simply look prettier while they do it. My last electric kettle cost $30-40, but I could have spent up to $150 at the time. I don't value the aesthetics or branding of a premium kettle.

I drive a Holden. I'd love a BMW or an Audi despite the fact they fulfil identical functions, will cost me more up front and throughout their lifetime and be (in the case of Audi) on balance less reliable than the Holden. It will be nicer inside and hot women will look past my grey hairs and physique and want to have relations with me. Of course.

 

[Messenger]

Oh, and art is different. The value of an unique piece of art is in the eye of the beholder. Some will appreciate because of the creator (again branding).

 

[Caesar]

Whoa dude, you had to take it to the arts.

Did you pay 1000s for it? Will it hold its value?

Remember this is about depreciation too. Fridges and couches are worth nothing once they've been used.

People don't touch paintings every day and they don't wear down from usage like a fridge/couch does.

A piece of art is something that can hold value. Not a big waste of money in that case.

I used art because it's an obvious example of something with intangible value that varies from person to person. The point can be easily transferred to couches, or fridges, or any other item. If someone wants to spend more on an item because in their opinion it looks better, then who is to say that is not a valid purpose?

You seem to be implying that there are are only three reasons for spending money on something:

- practical utility
- investment
- status

Which is totally not true. Art is a good example, which is why I chose it. Maybe some art is a good investment, but the majority of art is purchased for its aesthetic or emotional value to the buyer. I own numerous bookshelves full of books even though an e-library would be cheaper and more space efficient because I love the touch and feel and look of them. I possess numerous trinkets for no other reason than sentimental value. And yes, I own a couch that cost a lot more than one I could have got at Fantastic Furniture because it is comfortable and easy to care for and looks nice in my living room.

 

[Papa Juggs]

Great post Caesar hard to argue with that.

At least I know when you're planted on that too expensive couch you're supporting the right AFL team and hopefully until you die like me

I guess I'm just not into paying a premium price for things as I feel it's mostly to do with status.

It's down to personal preference on how much value you feel you're getting.

Some people really appreciate a large frost free, internet connected, ice block dispensing fridge. I do not.

 

[grizzlym]

To want, is to suffer.

 

[Messenger]

It's down to personal preference on how much value you feel you're getting.

Precisely.

 

[Poseidon]

Who cares if a fridge depreciates in value? People don't invest in fridges, they buy them to use. I've been raised under the law of 'if you buy quality, it lasts' and it's been 100% true thus far.

 

[Waynesworld]

I guess I'm just not into paying a premium price for things as I feel it's mostly to do with status.

Which is where you continually miss the point.

I pay a premium for a couch because I can appreciate the comfort and the fact that it will last longer.
I pay a premium for a home theatre network because I cannot stand poor quality sound.
I pay a premium for a large screen TV because I enjoy watching programs and sport in high quality.
I pay a premium for a high performance car because I enjoy driving, and appreciate the differences over a basic family truckster.

But most of all I pay a premium for better "stuff" because I can, and because I enjoy the qualities they bring.

Not because I feel it will improve my status.

But each to their own - you just keep enjoying your milk crates dude. I am sure that they are real comfy!

 

[Papa Juggs]

To want, is to suffer.

I'm filling in all the blanks, the old man, the hand me down shoes, the "borrowed" lawnmower....

Were your desires quashed by your upbringing?

 

[PHX]

Milk crates are comfy as ****. Need to get some for my house.

Also convenient for easy conversion to backyard cricket wickets when required.

 

[grizzlym]

I'm filling in all the blanks, the old man, the hand me down shoes, the "borrowed" lawnmower....

Were your desires quashed by your upbringing?

I used to say that to the ex - it would drive her spare.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The “quality lasts longer” principle has become substantially diluted in such a prosperous society. Consumers still operate largely on the principle of “price = quality”, when the reality is no longer true in a lot of cases. Price is now used largely as a marketing tool, rather than simply a reflection of the cost of producing the item. Companies charge us more because they can. People will pay the price for perceived value.

In the vast majority of cases, especially with anything electrical or technology related, the gap in quality between cheap and expensive has never been smaller. Cheap appliances don’t last – but many (not all) expensive appliances don’t last either, certainly in comparison to those “produced” by the same brand 20 or 30 years ago. They don’t need to - the rate at which technology moves means people upgrade relatively quickly, so cheaper components are used to lower cost – not that it equals lower prices, of course. It’s all margin.

Lifespan is something not many people take into account when purchasing – many pay a premium for “quality” when purchasing something that they’ll upgrade long before the cheaper brands are worn out anyway.

The modern concentration of manufacturing in Asia has had a huge impact. Across many items, it’s ridiculous the number of different “brands” that come out of the door of the same factories.

Some people are educated in particular item, but when 90% of people buy a common item, I doubt they actually know the difference in quality of the components, labour etc. Price is used as a guide, which leads to many people getting ripped off. It really does pay these days to do your research.

I doubt many would change even if they did know, such is what marketing has done for brands.

 

[Caesar]

To want, is to suffer.

But to live is to want.

Schopenhauer was a miserable old bastard, but he had a better handle on the human condition than that Buddha guy.

 

[grizzlym]

Schopenhauer was a miserable old bastard, but he had a better handle on the human condition than that Buddha guy.

Ah, 7 years of uni where he was deconstructed by the various post-modernist muses, means the only place I want to see his name is on a beer label.

 

[JuddsABlue]

The “quality lasts longer” principle has become substantially diluted in such a prosperous society. Consumers still operate largely on the principle of “price = quality”, when the reality is no longer true in a lot of cases. Price is now used largely as a marketing tool, rather than simply a reflection of the cost of producing the item. Companies charge us more because they can. People will pay the price for perceived value.

In the vast majority of cases, especially with anything electrical or technology related, the gap in quality between cheap and expensive has never been smaller. Cheap appliances don’t last – but many (not all) expensive appliances don’t last either, certainly in comparison to those “produced” by the same brand 20 or 30 years ago. They don’t need to - the rate at which technology moves means people upgrade relatively quickly, so cheaper components are used to lower cost – not that it equals lower prices, of course. It’s all margin.

Lifespan is something not many people take into account when purchasing – many pay a premium for “quality” when purchasing something that they’ll upgrade long before the cheaper brands are worn out anyway.

The modern concentration of manufacturing in Asia has had a huge impact. Across many items, it’s ridiculous the number of different “brands” that come out of the door of the same factories.

Some people are educated in particular item, but when 90% of people buy a common item, I doubt they actually know the difference in quality of the components, labour etc. Price is used as a guide, which leads to many people getting ripped off. It really does pay these days to do your research.

I doubt many would change even if they did know, such is what marketing has done for brands.

My mother is also a bit of a tight ass, but not like my grandmother. Kind of inbetween. But she does live by the idea that everything is made in the same factory and we only pay extra for the brand tag etc. So naturally over the years I've seen her buy some pretty cheap stuff (kitchen appliances etc). Me on the other hand buy the more expensive things that she percieves to be a waste of money etc

Examples are work shirts. I bought a couple of really nice shirts for work at $160 a pop, while for Christmas she bought me some shirts for anout $30 a pop and I can barely bring myself to wear them. The fabric is shit, theyre horrible to wash and iron, they just feel awkward and the fitting of it is terrible. Same goes for appliances. I gifted her a decent frying pan years ago and it has outlasted every one she has and is still holding strong

While I do agree that things are probably different than 20-30 years ago (wasnt around then), there is still a decent argument to be made for quality, and lots of people are living by the same code as my mother and buying cheap shit thinking its the same as everything else

 

[Caesar]

Price is determined by a lot of factors, one of which is quality. In turn, "quality" can mean a lot of things - not just durability. Many aspects of quality are subjective. I may place more value than you do on the cut of a shirt, for example.

I think if you scatter-graphed every consumer item, price against quality, you'd still end up with the basic relationship of "higher price, better quality". But you'd have a shitload of outliers. And even for the products where the relationship held true, whether the price differential is justified is always going to be highly subjective, and often questionable. Certainly the higher the price point, the bigger component of the price differential is going to be made up of things like brand status.

I can see the difference between $40, $100 and $160 business shirts. Whether I think that the $160 shirt is 4 times as good as the $40 one is a different matter. Certainly the higher the price point, the bigger component of the price differential is going to be made up of things like brand status.

Most people will pay for quality up to a point. It's just the point where they say "that's totally not worth it" varies.

 

[Puntroad]

Milk crates are just as comfy as an Italian leather couch when you're in Darwin. You'll be stuck to the couch in a sweaty mess within 5 mins.

 

[Scotland]

This thread is all over the shop. Is it about price vs quality or owning too much stuff? Or is it generally about how wasteful society is? The latter could generate hundreds of replies, but is definitely not limited to owning lots of stuff.

I have a Sony TV. It's coming up on 5 years old now, but the picture quality is still excellent. I didn't buy it because it was Sony or because it was relatively expensive or because I wanted to show off etc. I bought it because I wanted a nice TV and I liked that particular one. Anyway, the quality argument could go on forever. Maybe the Samsung is better, maybe I should spend even more and get a Pioneer. Etc. Etc.

For the same money at the time I probably could've got two Soniq TV's around the same size. Would that have been a better use of my money? Or do I get one (that might only last a year or two) and pocket the difference? Do I pick up a Rank Arena from the next vergeside collection and use that so I can have a wad of cash in my pocket and not feel materialistic?

The point is I have one functional item (this example being a TV) and I am happy with it. Could've got a cheaper one, could've got a dearer one. I'd much rather have one nice TV than the equivalent value in possessions that sit in the shed collecting dust. How many people do you know that have boats/bikes/etc. sitting around rusting away, 359 pairs of shoes worn once, musical instruments never played, iPads and other gadgets that were the latest trend but haven't been out of the drawer in months etc.

 

[Jackfrost]

I am the couch guy in question.

We've always relied on hand me downs and with a toddler and a newborn we spend a lot of our weekend nights watching TV series.

The couch purchase is based on our own comfort (I even took in my laptop to test how they feel doing the things I do on it) and practicality (semi circle L shape with recliner and reclining chaise).

The Wife insists on leather for cleaning it and I insisted upon drink holders for easier drinking during sport.

I'll enjoy my couch and you enjoy your VB boxes full of bricks.

 

[Scotland]

A good couch is worth it, just like a good mattress.

It doesn't have to cost the Earth, but it does need to be comfortable.

That feeling when you sit down on a couch and it just feels right. Ahhh.... It's like Sheldon Cooper first discovering his spot.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

My mother is also a bit of a tight arse, but not like my grandmother. Kind of inbetween. But she does live by the idea that everything is made in the same factory and we only pay extra for the brand tag etc. So naturally over the years I've seen her buy some pretty cheap stuff (kitchen appliances etc). Me on the other hand buy the more expensive things that she percieves to be a waste of money etc

Examples are work shirts. I bought a couple of really nice shirts for work at $160 a pop, while for Christmas she bought me some shirts for anout $30 a pop and I can barely bring myself to wear them. The fabric is shit, theyre horrible to wash and iron, they just feel awkward and the fitting of it is terrible. Same goes for appliances. I gifted her a decent frying pan years ago and it has outlasted every one she has and is still holding strong

While I do agree that things are probably different than 20-30 years ago (wasnt around then), there is still a decent argument to be made for quality, and lots of people are living by the same code as my mother and buying cheap shit thinking its the same as everything else

Clothes are a bit different, but it holds true to an extent.

Obviously it has to be within reason, I’m not advocating buying the cheapest shit possible. I agree a $30 business shirt would be horrible. But $160? For example, I’d bet you could find a shirt that almost matches yours in all areas of quality for $80 - $120, and will easily last for the required lifespan (ie as long as you want to wear it). I think what you’re paying on top of that is probably just brand premium, which for all intents and purposes means nothing. It’s your money so whatever, but that’s just kind of my point.

It’s just an example so hard to know, but I’d like to know the actual material, and location / quality of manufacture of your $160 shirt, vs one that cost 40 – 50% less.

Like I was saying with my cousin’s fridge, $5k or something, I’m not saying they should go to Aldi and buy a $300 job, but I reckon there’d be something for around half the price which will do exactly what they need it to, for just as long. It’s when people go over the top with stuff like that makes you wonder a bit.

 

[THRILLHO]

If the opportunity for second-hand furniture is available, I think you should utilise it and save your money.

Currently living with my girlfriend. Fridge, microwave, kettle, toaster, washing machine, vacuum cleaner, couches, computer desk, lawn mower all second-hand sourced from parents and grandparents and are all in reasonable, to very good, nick. In fact, the lawn mower is so good (some old model) that some old codger stopped his ute on the side of the road to chat to me about it while I was out mowing one Sunday afternoon

But then we've spent good money on a bed, TV, BBQ, plus other smaller stuff. We were lucky in that both our parents helped us by buying stuff we needed for birthday and Xmas presents and that my grandparents moved into a nursing home at the time we moved in together and her grandparents have a wide network through their church and the Lions Club so they were able to source a (pretty much) brand new washing machine for us.

Specifically speaking regarding the couch, seeing as this is a couch thread: they're not the best couches, they're green and they're actually sofas so they're a bit uncomfy for sitting on (fine if laying down) but we spend practically no time in the living room and the only extended time I spend in there is watching footy during winter and I'm usually perched on the table about 12 inches from the TV instead.

 

[The Dice Man]

I am the couch guy in question.

We've always relied on hand me downs and with a toddler and a newborn we spend a lot of our weekend nights watching TV series.

The couch purchase is based on our own comfort (I even took in my laptop to test how they feel doing the things I do on it) and practicality (semi circle L shape with recliner and reclining chaise).

The Wife insists on leather for cleaning it and I insisted upon drink holders for easier drinking during sport.

I'll enjoy my couch and you enjoy your VB boxes full of bricks.

Hang on now. You took your laptop in to test how it felt on the couch....

And how did the things you do feel in a couch/laptop combination?

 

[Jmac2225]

The Mrs wants us to get a new couch when we move hopefully soon (just put house on market and intend to upgrade/size). This is making me quite nervous. Sure our current couch is looking a bit old, ragged and dirty but it's still comfy and my biggest fear is the new couch will end up just as bad considering 2 children under 4 inevitably adds up to mess.

 

[Jackfrost]

Hang on now. You took your laptop in to test how it felt on the couch....

And how did the things you do feel in a couch/laptop combination?

Haha yeah. I use my laptop on my current couch and it isn't too comfortable. The new couch is laptop ergonomic. If I'm gonna fork out 3.5K I wanna be sure I am going to enjoy it post sale for the things I enjoy doing on it… no I didn't pork the missus on it in the store