Paddy Ryder or Tom Hawkins?

[Big Scottknowsall]

Let's wait and see once Ryder has actually developed physically. Man boy down at Geelong would not have even been thought of had he not been built like a brick sh!t house as a teenager....

If he was lanky like Paddy, he would not have got near an AFL game...

In 3 years Ryder will be a man mountain, playing anywhere he wants....Man Boy will still be battling Mooney for CHF position down a the Catters....

I ithnk Ryder has a lot more physical developemnt to come than Hawkins, and he is already seen as good enough to play CHB....

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

Half backs have an easy gig in my book. Their stats will usually look pretty good,no matter how they play.

As an outsider, I would not choose Ryder amongst the first five players I could take from Essendons list right now. Thinking Reimers, Houli, Jetta, Gumbleton, Myers ll before I would get to Ryder, just off the top of my head.

As I conceded, he has some talent, I just struggleto see where he will end up. And tall, skinny utilities don't float my boat.

WHy are you assuming he wont put on muscle? Do you remember what A Goodes looked like when he started playing AFL?

Let's - for arguments sake - say he develops into a nice 100kg, muscly type, what will your assumptions be then?

 

[El Segundo]

WHy are you assuming he wont put on muscle? Do you remember what A Goodes looked like when he started playing AFL?

Let's - for arguments sake - say he develops into a nice 100kg, muscly type, what will your assumptions be then?

The big Tommahawk will be running 15s on a beep test by the time Ryder nudges 100kg.

Building an engine/ fitness is an easier game than putting on 10kg, just to be able to compete

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

The big Tommahawk will be running 15s on a beep test by the time Ryder nudges 100kg.

Building an engine/ fitness is an easier game than putting on 10kg, just to be able to compete

Pity they don't put out the cones on a Saturday arvo down at Kardinia Park so Hawkins can do his "15's" and show us all how good he is at footy...

 

[Smyth94]

The big Tommahawk will be running 15s on a beep test by the time Ryder nudges 100kg.

Building an engine/ fitness is an easier game than putting on 10kg, just to be able to compete

Maybe Tommahawk should concentrate on getting a game

 

[Dawn2Dark]

At this very moment - Ryder. More than happy to give Tom more time though

 

[Phat Toni]

This argumenent is tripe.

Many arguments involving Esendon players are.

Lets deal in knowns:
Hawkins is a tall, strong, power forward, who has shown he can win his own ball. This is much easier said than done, as all other young forwards will testify. At times he has looked a touch slow and uncertain. But he shows you enough. A bit like a young super-hero grappling to come to terms with their powers.

Ryder is a skinny, flaky and loose cente half back who has been towelled this year laying the easiest positon on the ground. He takes a few nice marks where he gets good ride on someone's shoulders and those of the red and black persusion clammer to claim the second coming.

I guess the point I am trying to make is this: I can see where Hawkins development is taking him. He is going to be a one grab, power forward, who will freighten opposition players and coaches.

But when I close my eyes and try and work out what Paddy Ryder is going to be I draw blanks. My guess is he will end up another skinny utility with a fair bit of talent who plays some nice mathes every year. Doesn't have the body for key position, the engine for on-ball (ala Goodes, Cornes) or the nous of a true forward.

Tell me exactly what Hawkins has proved? Let me deal in the knows as you called it, Hawkins cant manage to hold down a KPP forward spot in a team that has rubbish KPP forwards, that's known’s!

 

[Smyth94]

This argumenent is tripe.

Many arguments involving Esendon players are.

Lets deal in knowns:
Hawkins is a tall, strong, power forward, who has shown he can win his own ball. This is much easier said than done, as all other young forwards will testify. At times he has looked a touch slow and uncertain. But he shows you enough. A bit like a young super-hero grappling to come to terms with their powers.

Ryder is a skinny, flaky and loose cente half back who has been towelled this year laying the easiest positon on the ground. He takes a few nice marks where he gets good ride on someone's shoulders and those of the red and black persusion clammer to claim the second coming.

A bit like a super-hero coming to grips with his powers? My, my...

Since when was CHB the easiest position on the ground? I'll tell you what the easiest position on the ground is - The Geelong forward line , Ryder plays in a team with one of the worst defensive records (in '08) and has been asked to play on forwards much more stronger than him and has competed very well - he absolutely smashed your best forward.

 

[strategy]

Hawkins has the players around him to make him look good , just like Nathan Ablett did .

Ryder is good no matter what in a team rebuilding.

 

[El Segundo]

I'll address you bomber fans as a collective.

I not trying to say Ryder can't play.

Just that I reckon its clearer what Hawkins will become than Ryder. Hence Hawkins is th better or surer option.

Perhaps I went a little hard on Ryder at the start, but I just dont see what his killer blow is. He kind of looks like a 6-7/10 in most attributes (pack marking, strength, kicking, running power, reading the game, etc.)

Hawkins might be a 2-3 out of 10 on many of those, but his pack marking and strength will see him get there.

Tony Lockett made a career out of being quick off the mark, a good kick and ridiculously strong.

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

I'll address you bomber fans as a collective.

I not trying to say Ryder can't play.

Just that I reckon its clearer what Hawkins will become than Ryder. Hence Hawkins is th better or surer option.

Perhaps I went a little hard on Ryder at the start, but I just dont see what his killer blow is. He kind of looks like a 6-7/10 in most attributes (pack marking, strength, kicking, running power, reading the game, etc.)

Hawkins might be a 2-3 out of 10 on many of those, but his pack marking and strength will see him get there.

Tony Lockett made a career out of being quick off the mark, a good kick and ridiculously strong.

What's he got to do with it? Are you suggesting Thommaman boy is going to be the equal of Plugger? I presume that's the only reason you included him in this argument?

 

[Exhale You]

I personally can't see what all the hype is about Tomahawk. I said as much before the start of the season and got cut down by a heap of angry Geelong supporters. Now he is languishing in the reserves.

He's 19 and has been recently been dropped from a team who has won 33 of their last 35 games.

Delist him

Neither did Neagle.
He had one year in the TAC Cup and hardly trained in that time.
He was completing one session a week.

That's one more year in the TAC Cup than Hawkins had.

My strong impression is that Hawkins is a big fat baby

Hmm.....

Hawkins cant manage to hold down a KPP forward spot in a team that has rubbish KPP forwards, that's known’s!

It'd be harder getting a game as a key forward at Geelong than it would be getting a game as a key defender at Essendon, that's for sure.

It's amazing how lippy some Essendon fans get after a few wins.

 

[CrazyQ]

Hawkins, we have Hansen at CHB in the future.

 

[thewhippersnapper]

I'd obviously keep Ryder. We already have a young FF better than Hawkins.

 

[Longy413]

That's one more year in the TAC Cup than Hawkins had.

He trained and has done a preseason.


Also worth noting - Courtney Johns beat Tom Hawkins.

 

[CrazyQ]

I'd obviously keep Ryder. We already have a young FF better than Hawkins.

Neagle is a good footballer with a great footy brain, but Hawkins is the better talent.

 

[SirJimi05]

I'll address you bomber fans as a collective.

I not trying to say Ryder can't play.

Just that I reckon its clearer what Hawkins will become than Ryder. Hence Hawkins is th better or surer option.

Perhaps I went a little hard on Ryder at the start, but I just dont see what his killer blow is. He kind of looks like a 6-7/10 in most attributes (pack marking, strength, kicking, running power, reading the game, etc.)

Hawkins might be a 2-3 out of 10 on many of those, but his pack marking and strength will see him get there.

You have obviously never really watched Ryder play a game of football.

1. He is extremely quick for a big guy. He is also one of the quickest players in the comp in terms of closing speed. I am also pretty sure that he was clocked the best or close to best 100m time on our list and we have sopme pretty zippy players.

2. He never misses targets and is one of the best kicks on the Essendon list.

3. He is brilliant at reading the play and often pre-empts what the ball carrier is going to do instead of worrying about his opponent. Next time you are at an Essendon game i suggest you keep a close eye on Ryder off the ball and watch the way he reads the play.

And to cap this off you say that it is better to be a 2/10 in most aspects and a 10/10 in one as opposed to being a 7/10 in every aspect. If Hawkins stays a 2/10 in so many aspects of his play he will not last very long as an AFL footballer.

 

[SirJimi05]

He's 19 and has been recently been dropped from a team who has won 33 of their last 35 games.

Delist him

Where did i say he should be delisted?

I said i don't see where all the hype is coming from.

I didn't say he won't be a handy or good player.

I just can't see him being the superstar that so many people think he will become.

As you said he is only 19 so time will tell.

 

[strategy]

I'll address you bomber fans as a collective.

I not trying to say Ryder can't play.

Just that I reckon its clearer what Hawkins will become than Ryder. Hence Hawkins is th better or surer option.

Perhaps I went a little hard on Ryder at the start, but I just dont see what his killer blow is. He kind of looks like a 6-7/10 in most attributes (pack marking, strength, kicking, running power, reading the game, etc.)

Hawkins might be a 2-3 out of 10 on many of those, but his pack marking and strength will see him get there.

Tony Lockett made a career out of being quick off the mark, a good kick and ridiculously strong.

Ryder is 21 next yr. He's 197 cm and gangly and still learning his trade .He can play ruck , fwd and back and is quick.In time he can do the job Goodes does for Sydney ...and i am not joking ..provided he is allowed to learn the trade correctly instead of rushing his development and asking him to be a KPP.He has to bulk up a bit as well and all these things take time of which he has .

 

[Exhale You]

Where did i say he should be delisted?

Ah, that trick.

You intimated that you were proven right in not believing the 'hype' because he's currently not in the team.

If someone said something similar about a 19yo from Essendon, you and your cohorts would cut up rough.

How about we wait 5-6 years to decide whether the 'hype' was worthwhile, eh?

 

[Exhale You]

Also worth noting - Courtney Johns beat Tom Hawkins.

And Kent Kingsley once kicked 7 goals on your demi-god, Dustin Fletcher.

And Fletcher didn't have the excuse of being a 19yo kid.

See, anyone can play that game.

 

[The 747]

A bit like a super-hero coming to grips with his powers? My, my...

Since when was CHB the easiest position on the ground? I'll tell you what the easiest position on the ground is - The Geelong forward line , Ryder plays in a team with one of the worst defensive records (in '08) and has been asked to play on forwards much more stronger than him and has competed very well - he absolutely smashed your best forward.

Did you or did you not lose that game by oh 99 points?

Mooney kicked 2.2 for the game. We at Geelong were extremely depressed about that result overall.

 

[Skeppersap]

And Kent Kingsley once kicked 7 goals on your demi-god, Dustin Fletcher.

And Fletcher didn't have the excuse of being a 19yo kid.

See, anyone can play that game.

You just destroyed that utterly stupid argument!

 

[Smyth94]

Did you or did you not lose that game by oh 99 points?

Mooney kicked 2.2 for the game. We at Geelong were extremely depressed about that result overall.

You just agreed with the point I was trying to make - Ryder pantsed Mooney in a game you won by 99 points. Not a bad result it would seem.

 

[Smyth94]

I'll address you bomber fans as a collective.

I not trying to say Ryder can't play.

Just that I reckon its clearer what Hawkins will become than Ryder. Hence Hawkins is th better or surer option.

Perhaps I went a little hard on Ryder at the start, but I just dont see what his killer blow is. He kind of looks like a 6-7/10 in most attributes (pack marking, strength, kicking, running power, reading the game, etc.)

Hawkins might be a 2-3 out of 10 on many of those, but his pack marking and strength will see him get there.

Tony Lockett made a career out of being quick off the mark, a good kick and ridiculously strong.

Those comments make you look a little silly...the killer blow?

You're looking at a 6'6'' KPP who has the agility and skills of a midfielder, and can leap over a house. As far as weapons go - There wouldn't be many players in the AFL that would stack up against Paddy.