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Pat Cummins

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Yeah, Clark was never a great ODI bowler, but his twenty20 form this season (going at less than 6 an over and taken 9 or 10 wickets) has been sensational
 
As much as I dislike NSW, their abilty, and more ot the point their willingness to take a chance on a kid is fantastic.

cummins may amount to nothing, but at least they are giving him a chnce and he shows something.

I just hope B Lee and M Clarke stay away from him with their show pony attitudes.
 
bloodstainedangel5 said:
How on earth could you possibly know this?



I think you'll find that while Clark is more than capable of hitting the same spot time after time, and used this to great effect in Test cricket, he makes excellent use of variation in T20 cricket. He is one of the most variable bowlers in the competition, with a great number of pace variations, a handy bouncer, good control and manipulation of line, and can actually bowl yorkers
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You can see it. He's trying to swing the ball on most occasions, so he's attempting to pitch it up and loses control of it, otherwise it'd be in the same spot almost every ball, swinging it away from players.

As for Clark.. yeah, change of pace is not change of pitch. Did you have a look at the pitch map they put up for him? Sure change of pace helps, but also the pitch of where it is the main damage. Its too full to pull/cut, too short to drive.
 
Bradesmaen said:
You can see it. He's trying to swing the ball on most occasions, so he's attempting to pitch it up and loses control of it, otherwise it'd be in the same spot almost every ball, swinging it away from players.
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Putting it in the same spot almost every ball is a rubbish T20 bowling strategy. Unless you're an absolute freak, no bowler will get away with it. Cummins is varying his pitch and varying his line, and he's doing it to great effect. His wickets and economy are products of this.

Bradesmaen said:
As for Clark.. yeah, change of pace is not change of pitch. Did you have a look at the pitch map they put up for him? Sure change of pace helps, but also the pitch of where it is the main damage. Its too full to pull/cut, too short to drive.
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Change of pitch is one variation which many bowlers use. Clark prefers to make use of change of pace, but he also uses variations with bouncers and yorkers.

Cummins does not make huge use of changes of pace (he can and has bowled quite reasonable slower balls, but he is yet to master them), but he draws variation with fuller balls at the stumps, shorter balls at the ribs, wider balls and straighter balls to tempt batsmen and keep them guessing, etc.

Now I'm not trying to say that every ball that Cummins bowls goes exactly where he wants it to, of course not, if he was doing that at 17 at his pace he'd be playing Test cricket by now. But to suggest his variation in line and length is not of his own doing, which itself implies that his success at this level has been not his own, but merely luck, is absolutely ridiculous.

If you can't accept that Cummins has stepped up and bowled some genuinely brilliant T20 spells, then you've got no hope.
 

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Pevers-Legend said:
As much as I dislike NSW, their abilty, and more ot the point their willingness to take a chance on a kid is fantastic.

cummins may amount to nothing, but at least they are giving him a chnce and he shows something.

I just hope B Lee and M Clarke stay away from him with their show pony attitudes.
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B Lee has been fantastic for our one day side this summer, it's the first time all summer our bowling attack has had a leader
 
Bradesmaen said:
Sorry I forgot bloodstained, every NSW player is hte greatest ever at everything they do :rolleyes: its impossible that they could do anything different.
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Yes, Bradesmaen. That is exactly what I'm saying. :rolleyes:

What you're basically saying is that Cummins didn't earn his wickets with good bowling, he got them by luck. I'm just saying that's bullshit. He earnt his wickets with good, fast, variable bowling, which is exactly how a fast bowler should bowl in T20s.

Now, we won't know how much control of line and length Cummins has until we see him bowl in the longer forms, I've said that many times, and I'm actually very reluctant to say he's going to be a success (T20 form isn't worth much), but I just have a problem with you breezing into a thread and trying to discredit a guy who has performed remarkably by anyone's standards.

Basically, what it comes down to is this: has Cummins been trying to bowl variable lines and lengths, not allowing the batsmen to get settled, and thus drawing poor shots? Or has this variation been completely random, and, just as luck would have it, the deliveries he has bowled just happen to have earned him wickets on a very consistent basis? Is it skill, or is it ridiculously good luck? I know which one I think is more likely.
 
Black Thunder said:
can bowl
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The most welcoming this is that he can bowl well ;) but seriously, probably the most promising player I've seen come through recently. Bowlers who can bowl 150 at 17 don't come along very often. For those hoping he will be properly developed, through experience at higher levels cummins will learn where he has to bowl to take wickets. Even if he were to get to tonked you would hope he would be a little more brighter than lee was in his earlier years and bowl in the right areas. If he can do that, he will become our strike bowler we've been missing. If I could make an example of a young fast bowler learning his trade through failure and persistence I would point to Dale steyn and turns out he's pretty good :thumbsu:
 

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Given NSW have great depth with their fast bowling stocks (Mark Cameron was struggling for a game early in the season!) what are the chances that one of the promising youngsters (mainly Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins) would be looking at a change of state?

Would kill to have any of those three, to add to our own promising fast bowlers in Ryan Duffield and Matt Dixon (whom I hope Arthur will start playing for the rest of the season, as he is going to do with Marcus Harris to open the batting apparently).

As much as they have done well for WA cricket, it's time to play young fast bowlers and thank the likes of Magoffin and Dorey for their services.
 
massive fan of Magoffin. Think he would've got the job done at test level but never really had a chance to get an opportunity despite consistent figures in shield cricket (5 consecutive seasons averaging under 30 with a minimum of 28 wickets is good going).... The best chance he had was after McGrath retired in 06/07 but Johnson was always in front of him and Hilfenhaus had just had a massive season...

Wasn't helped by not getting a crack at first class cricket till he was 25.
 
Black Thunder said:
massive fan of Magoffin. Think he would've got the job done at test level but never really had a chance to get an opportunity despite consistent figures in shield cricket (5 consecutive seasons averaging under 30 with a minimum of 28 wickets is good going).... The best chance he had was after McGrath retired in 06/07 but Johnson was always in front of him and Hilfenhaus had just had a massive season...

Wasn't helped by not getting a crack at first class cricket till he was 25.
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Don't get me wrong, I think Magoffin is great, probably the best fast bowler in Australia currently who hasn't and sadly never will play Tests for Australia. Very, very underrated.

I just think youth is the way forward for the Warriors, and we do have some promising young quicks in Duffield (very good this season), Dixon (Hodge as first domestic wicket!) and Coulter-Nile (did well in Sheffield Shield last season) that would benefit from some full-time exposure.
 
yeah i think your right in regards to Magoffin. shame. hopefully they don't give him the arse completely because i think he still has a lot to offer there and can plug up some gaps when needed. unfortuantely is a bit injury plagued at the moment. I'd be moving on Michael Hogan long before i'd be moving on Magoffin.

Have heard good things about Coulter-Nile but haven't seen him yet. Good numbers.
 
A 17 year old who can bowl mid 140's, swing it both ways, has height and bounce and most of all bowls a full length and bowls accuratly. IMO he will be the next big thing in world cricket in a few years. Has more skill and nouse than Bollinger, Johnson and Hilfenhaus combined. Wouldn't suprise me if he's bowling mid 150's by the age of 21.

What are people's thoughts? How long will our anti-youth policy keep him out of Australian cricket?
 
Watched a bit of him over the weekend, saw highlights package from Fox sports when he took the 2nd new ball, he put on a genuine clinic. For mine he and copeland should be the mainstays of our attck in 3-5 yrs time.
 

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Extremely exciting prospect, but there have been a lot of them.

I hope he can make the next step, he looks like he could, but who knows.
 
damochandler said:
give him another 4 years in first class cricket. before we consider him for australian selection. he is only 17 and throwing him into the national team right now would be stupid and it would stunt his development
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Every one says playing test cricket too early will stunt a players development or ruin them some how.

I'd like to know why. I don't see a reason for it.

We don't have a bowler who can swing the ball and bowl with accuracy, smarts and a full length. We haven't had a bowler who can swing it both ways for years. This guy will make his test debut within 2 years. Book mark it.

He's not ready for the big time yet but he will get there. As long as he's not bowled into the ground.

Maybe if he gets in the Aussie team Cooley will teach him to bowl too short and stop him swinging it. Might wanna hold him back a bit.

western royboy said:
If he had played in my comp he would only be allowed to bowl 6-8 overs in a spell and a total of 20 for the day.
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Funny you mention this it's the same in my comp too.
 
western royboy said:
If he had played in my comp he would only be allowed to bowl 6-8 overs in a spell and a total of 20 for the day.
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Exactly mate, and it's one of the more sensible rules in club and district cricket. Too many promising young quicks get stress fractures in legs or back problems because they bowl too quick for too long before their body has grown fully.

Shouldn't even be considered as a frontline test bowler for 2-4 years, when he will have developed.

Wouldn't hurt to get him into the 20/20 mix to give him a taste though.

Sounds like a good prospect.
 

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