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Pat Cummins

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CHIEF SMACKAHOE said:
i just want to know why he's ahead of pattinson, who has a much better record in the shield (28 wickets @ 27 in 8 games vs 9 @ 46 in 3) hell, why isn't bollinger in the picture? his test record is excellent.
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Agree that Pattinson should be ahead, but Bollinger is the unlucky one as you've pointed out because his test record is very good.

Unfortunately he suffered an injury in the Shield match, giving the selectors a nice excuse for him not being in the side.
 
CHIEF SMACKAHOE said:
i just want to know why he's ahead of pattinson, who has a much better record in the shield (28 wickets @ 27 in 8 games vs 9 @ 46 in 3) hell, why isn't bollinger in the picture? his test record is excellent.
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One word: PACE. You cannot teach it. Pattinson for the record should be ahead of Johnson, but I like Cummins in the side- the best way to get tailenders out- RAW PACE. The one area we have lacked for the last 3 years- getting the tail out!
 

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bombersno1 said:
One word: PACE. You cannot teach it. Pattinson for the record should be ahead of Johnson, but I like Cummins in the side- the best way to get tailenders out- RAW PACE. The one area we have lacked for the last 3 years- getting the tail out!
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worked for 18 months for Brett Lee, most of the rest of his career he was just a bully to tail enders who mostly developed enough technique to make him look even more ordinary.
 
Lee was never the same after that first big back injury, i think he had about 45 wickets at an average of 16 before that first injury and after that he only had brief periods of dominance in test cricket.

He lived of that first burst pretty well though, he must have averaged well over 30 after that first year of test but was always one of the first picked.
 
dan warna said:
worked for 18 months for Brett Lee, most of the rest of his career he was just a bully to tail enders who mostly developed enough technique to make him look even more ordinary.
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I am not Lee's biggest fan, far from it, but is it any wonder why our bowling to tail enders has been rubbish since he retired from tests? The main reason we have 3 medium/fast plodders in the attack with no variety- Johnson (seam or rubbish), Siddle (Seam), and Harris (Seam). This is the reason why you need BOTH Cummins and Copeland.

Copeland- Tight bowler who makes you play
Random Spinner
Best seam bowler (Johnson or James Pattinson)
Express (Cummins)
Swing (Watson)

That is a FAR more balanced attack, rather than 3 medium/fast bowlers who offer no variety whatsoever.
 
I haven't seen much evidence of Cummins swinging the ball. I have seen plenty of him getting guys out who are trying to hit him for 6 in a T20 game but he won't have that luxury here.

FWIW I am sick of people talking about his raw pace and during the T20 series was sick of hearing him say 'I'm just going out and bowling quick' his pace is it didn't work for Tait who was much quicker than him and actually swung the ball. Cummins isn't quicker than half a dozen other guys so I just don't see the big deal.
 
Cummins does swing it out a bit, does need to work on his inswinger but he is only 18, that will come. A quick bowler saying "i want to bowl quick"...how is that wrong? They all say it. Go on name the dozen that are quicker than Cummins in Australian cricket...
 
bombersno1 said:
Cummins does swing it out a bit, does need to work on his inswinger but he is only 18, that will come. A quick bowler saying "i want to bowl quick"...how is that wrong? They all say it. Go on name the dozen that are quicker than Cummins in Australian cricket...
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You seen the kid play much? If anything the natural angle pushes the ball into right handers. At best his outswinger holds it's line.

As I said "I just want to bowl quick" is the same attitude we allowed Tait and even Johnson to have. It's not good enough to tell someone to just 'go out there and bowl quick' test bowling is craft and requires a bowler to be bowling to a plan... not just running and and bowling as quick as possible.

Thirdly I didn't say 'a dozen quicker' I side half a dozen as quick. What's The quickest ball Cummins has racked up? The quickest I have seen him hit is mid 140's

Johnson, Tait, Lee all still currently playing. On top of that Harris and Siddle have both cleared that, Pattison and Starc that's half a dozen. They may not be as quick as often but they are there and there abouts and it may have something to do with the fact that they bowl with in themselves as opposed to just 'going out there and bowling quick'
 
shawthing09 said:
You seen the kid play much? If anything the natural angle pushes the ball into right handers. At best his outswinger holds it's line.
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Yes ive seen him play a fair bit of his first class career (not much of it mind) I love his application and how as a kid he kept putting his hand up and running in for two days in the shield final while Coyte was off hiding in the shadows and bowling tired puss.

He has some use of seam but his swing is not yet refined, it can swing but he doesn't always control it.

I know a lot are mad about the selection but lets not turn it into a bigfooty style character lynching.
 
damochandler said:
if he doesn't bowl well in this test. put him back to shield cricket for 2 years. they won't hesitate in doing it i would think. the new selection panel i mean
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Should be put into Shield regardless, he has potential but definitely not ready to be a full time International player.
I would like to see Cutting and Pattinson play at the GABBA with a fit Harris hopefully.
 

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If he can get his arm straighter he'll be a real weapon with his swing. He's already swinging it out, albeit inconsistently, despite his arm being at completely the wrong angle for it. His seam position is just wonderful for an 18 year old. He's working up the pace as well, I reckon his second spell would have been a good 3-4 km/h faster on average.
 
Play the kid for now, he looks good.

He'll get figured out and get smashed a little bit, so you drop him and tell him exactly what he has to work on to get back in.

From what iv'e heard Hilditch and co didn't even talk to players. This has to change. They need to know what is needed to play at the top level in the selectors eyes.

Defintely can't expect an 18 yr old to bowl fast controlling swing boths ways, Geez. There's maybe 2-3 bowlers n the world that can do that and one's in jail.
 

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Bowled pretty well for a kid on debut, doesn't seem to do much with the ball and didn't really make them play enough for mine. Still has plenty to learn but he has all the tools to be a very good bowler for us. Shouldn't even be on tour it should be Pattinson debuting
 
There are a few people saying he doesen't swing it. I only saw a few overs before i went to bed last night but he seemed to me to be getting some nice outswing.
 
Rowd072 said:
There are a few people saying he doesen't swing it. I only saw a few overs before i went to bed last night but he seemed to me to be getting some nice outswing.
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The angle he bowls at doesn't help. There's definitely some shape on the ball and he has a strong seam position, but when you're bowling from that wide of the crease unless the ball's swinging sideways you generally can't do much more than straighten it.
 
King Elvis said:
Clearly needs some tweaking, but for a debut, you have to be happy with his performance :thumbsu:
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Now after this match he needs to go home and play as much Shield cricket as possible and work on his bowling as much as possible.
 

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