Religion Pell Guilty!

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Were these dubious claims before or after she was in the employ of the catholic church?
The article also raised far more claims against Pell than the 'Joe" issue. Joe was clearly after a quid and needs an uppercut, but what about the rest of them?
I fully understand that Pell, to this day, is not guilty of any of the accusations, however his obstinate defence and support of priests who were quite clearly paedophiles, and well known throughout the church, paints him in a very, very poor light indeed.
One could say that he was doing more than just protecting his own, he was protecting himself!
The claim I referred to was made to the Inquiry long after she had finished with the Church. On my reading, that article raised no other substantive claims - just Ms Last saying she had been told things - but no further elaboration.

Her being asked to return files is consistent with someone who has been relieved of their position. But the Age tries to make it look sinister.
 

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The claim I referred to was made to the Inquiry long after she had finished with the Church. On my reading, that article raised no other substantive claims - just Ms Last saying she had been told things - but no further elaboration.

Her being asked to return files is consistent with someone who has been relieved of their position. But the Age tries to make it look sinister.
Perhaps we are reading it differently? However it seems clear enough to me that whenever she did raise in issue with regards to Pell and others she was effectively blocked which made her position untenable.
I fully understand why she would then go so hard at them after being relieved of her duties if she truly believed that an active cover up was taking place and she was effectively rubbed out for being a nuisance whistle blower.
That's my take on it anyway.
 

jason pm

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AM

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To be fair, the jury verdict came as a bit of a surprise to a lot of experts. A number of well-respected legal minds (such as Jeremy Gans) have come out and said that they think an appeal on the grounds of unreasonableness stands a decent chance of success. I can understand people harbouring reservations about it.

Equally, believing that Pell should not have been convicted doesn't necessarily equate to believing that the victim's lying and the guy didn't do it. It's more a commentary on the inherent difficulties of proof in sexual assault cases.


Let's be real - whatever the result of the appeal, a substantial number of people will think it's wrong. That's just the nature of he said/he said cases. Personally I am okay with that. Judges and juries strive for fairness and truth, but they shouldn't ever be treated as the sole arbiters of it.
I was responding to a person who was not present at the incidents, heard none of the evidence at the trial yet claimed in many posts to know Pell was not guilty. That sort of arrogance is breathtaking.

The legal process is working. A jury has unanimously found Pell guilty on the whole 5 counts and he is taking it to appeal.

Legal opinions are no different from any others, they can be quite varied. That said, in my experience, the overwhelming view is that only one of the 3 grounds has any hope of success and that is marginal. We'll see.

I return to my point, which was a character with no primary evidence saying he knows Pell is innocent. That persons view will not change should the appeal process validate the jury verdict.
 

AM

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Guessing you aren’t a lawyer Freddie. I am. Regardless, the lawyers who told me their version of events know far more than me or you.


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I've always suspected the letters after his name meant Lazy Loud Bastard. :rolleyes:

*You're wrong*
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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https://en.mogaznews.com/World-News...s-robes-mean-he-could-not-have-molested-.html



Full screen



Are these fair representation of what Pell's vestments would have looked like?
Yes. He was apparently able to access his Johnson through all of these with one hand. I wonder whether he carefully removed his headwear and carefully placed down his walking stick thing too before the act or whether he was still wearing/holding them throughout. Because even that process is done so slowly and carefully it takes at least a minute. But he can't have. He must have just tossed these items aside because he blocked the door and prevented escape.
 

Maggie5

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I don't get the 'many layers' as it seems to me there are only two of any meaning - the Alb and the Chasuble. The other two items a rope and long scarf/stole, neither of which would restrict from lifting the other two up. Unless of course they weigh a ton.

Jury members had ample time to (look at and I wouldn't be surprised try on) consider these garments in the jury room and given their verdict, rejected that it may have been relevant.

Edit: Have just checked what the outer garments are made from and found that the Alba is usually made in Linen which would seem to me lightweight and even in cotton, wouldn't weigh a lot.
The chasuble seems to be made of wool with appliqué motifs in linen, with silk thread embroidered details. Again, the advancement in wool textiles is not like centuries ago and one can buy lightweight wool. Even if velvet, also comes in lightweight. The embroidery may differ as some can be in metals.
 
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I don't get the 'many layers' as it seems to me there are only two of any meaning - the Alb and the Chasuble. The other two items a rope and long scarf/stole, neither of which would restrict from lifting the other two up. Unless of course they weigh a ton.

Jury members had ample time to (look at and I wouldn't be surprised try on) consider these garments in the jury room and given their verdict, rejected that it may have been relevant.
That is the nub of it. Don’t forget that there would have likely also been belt pants and jocks to negotiate whilst holding up robe - not sure whether kid was being held as well. The testimony must have been compelling.


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That is the nub of it. Don’t forget that there would have likely also been belt pants and jocks to negotiate whilst holding up robe - not sure whether kid was being held as well. The testimony must have been compelling.


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Actually we don't know what he wore underneath, could have been nothing, trousers and belt or trackie pants.

I guess this is why we can question but only those in court actually know what the evidence is.

I suppose in the end you just have to place your belief in the system and I don't envy anyone on that jury.
I wonder how they must be feeling reading Bolt and co?
 
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Actually we don't know what he wore underneath, could have been nothing, trousers and belt or trackie pants.

I guess this is why we can question but only those in court actually know what the evidence is.

I suppose in the end you just have to place your belief in the system and I don't envy anyone on that jury.
I wonder how they must be feeling reading Bolt and co?
Would bet my right one (lost my left one betting on not guilty) that it would have been white shirt black trousers and belt - standard wear. Can’t speak to underwear.


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BruceFromBalnarring

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That is the nub of it. Don’t forget that there would have likely also been belt pants and jocks to negotiate whilst holding up robe - not sure whether kid was being held as well. The testimony must have been compelling.


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He was also going himself whilst going one of the kids at the same time. Still not sure whether or how he disposed of his headgear and his staff. Whilst of course blocking the doorway preventing escape. And hoping this was that one day in a million that no one happened upon the sacristy for the period the offense took place.
 

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Lift it up from the bottom like you would a dress, when there's an erect pedophile priest penis there is a will and a way.

It sounds like the old "If it doesn't fit you must acquit." defense tactic.
That's what I thought at first- was going to ask if he'd hitched the vestments up.

But that's not what the evidence was - it was detailed that both hands were free to perform the deeds. It's in the transcript of sentencing.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...-chief-judge-peter-kidd/ar-BBUI2hE?li=AAgfIYZ
 

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That's what I thought at first- was going to ask if he'd hitched the vestments up.

But that's not what the evidence was - it was detailed that both hands were free to perform the deeds. It's in the transcript of sentencing.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...-chief-judge-peter-kidd/ar-BBUI2hE?li=AAgfIYZ
I'm sure the best defense/justice money could buy:rolleyes: would have mentioned all of this, I don't think the BF SRP board has discovered something new that has blown this case wide open.

Pedophile Pell is hardly wearing a chastity belt although maybe it should be a standard issue with all clergy uniform/clown suits.
 

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Yes. He was apparently able to access his Johnson through all of these with one hand. I wonder whether he carefully removed his headwear and carefully placed down his walking stick thing too before the act or whether he was still wearing/holding them throughout. Because even that process is done so slowly and carefully it takes at least a minute. But he can't have. He must have just tossed these items aside because he blocked the door and prevented escape.
I totally get ya mate👍
It’s not like we’ve mapped the timeline of the universe to within a millionth of second or anything either!
It’s unpossible I tells yers!
Derp
 

jason pm

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I totally get ya mate👍
It’s not like we’ve mapped the timeline of the universe to within a millionth of second or anything either!
It’s unpossible I tells yers!
Derp
LOL!

Yep, I'm sure throughout our evolution man has conquered more onerous tasks than the mammoth effort:rolleyes: it would have taken for Pedophile Pell to unhinge his penis to satisfy carnal urges.
 

western royboy

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I am definitely not arguing in favour of anything like the Ellis defence resulting in a fair outcome for an abuse survivor. I understand that defence came after the establishment of the Melbourne Response?

And I do certainly not want to come across as defending the vile and evil that has been perpetrated. I was merely positing that Pell’s establishment of the Melbourne response was at the absolute vanguard of action of making amends for this evil. Long before the rest of the world.

Raising the cap limit - agree, the more the better. But there must be some limit? What do you suggest?

Query what sort of system could be less adversarial? Applicant meets with an independent commissioner and tells their story. No cross-examination, no requirement for evidence other than testimony. What do you think is a better solution?


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A couple of points - read it listen to Bp Geoffrey Robinson on why Pell went first with the Melbourne Response (I can assure you it was all about asset protection) and nothing to do with what Pell tried to claim. Second and listen to this very carefully...there is no amount of money in the world that accurately compensate for what occurred to any victim. Yet we are required to prove financial loss and accept cap limits from courts or the organisation that allowed us to be abused. The system is inadequate at best and totally corrupt at its worst.
 
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He was also going himself whilst going one of the kids at the same time. Still not sure whether or how he disposed of his headgear and his staff. Whilst of course blocking the doorway preventing escape. And hoping this was that one day in a million that no one happened upon the sacristy for the period the offense took place.
Your honour, how could he possibly take off a hat...the defense rests.
 
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A couple of points - read it listen to Bp Geoffrey Robinson on why Pell went first with the Melbourne Response (I can assure you it was all about asset protection) and nothing to do with what Pell tried to claim. Second and listen to this very carefully...there is no amount of money in the world that accurately compensate for what occurred to any victim. Yet we are required to prove financial loss and accept cap limits from courts or the organisation that allowed us to be abused. The system is inadequate at best and totally corrupt at its worst.
I have read that thank you and sorry for whatever may have happened to you. I am certainly not saying that money can adequately compensate a survivor. However, what do you suggest as an alternative?

And just to rebut a few of your points - respectfully, there is no need to prove only financial loss (although that would add to one’s claim - say for loss of earnings due to incapacity). The MR/courts will award compensation based on other considerations/damages. How was the MR all about asset protection when it only added to a survivor’s existing rights at common law? Without doubt it cost the Melbourne Archdiocese more than waiting for legal actions.

As to Pell setting up the MR before and outside of Towards Healing, well that is a matter for bishops to argue over. But the MR came first.


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