List Mgmt. Player Ages Thread

[BrunoV]

I was going to respond to that post but I thought, based on suggested drafting of Toy and anyone that shares a name with a connection to the club; dropping half of our best 22 in favour of completely unknown first and second year players; and weakening our backline, rucks stocks and, in the immediate future during which we should challenge for a flag, our forwardline, it wasn't a serious post. I suppose that it is a lot of effort to go to if you're not serious which leads me to ask WTF?

 

[Keystone agony]

Do you know how many 1st round draft picks since 2007 Geelong have in their side? One. Harry Taylor

Hooker has outperformed Pears every year from 2010 onwards. Hooker is by far the better player.

Talent wise? No. On output? Most definitely.

Funny, I could say the same about Pears.

But they have had plenty before that which is why they were so good during that time.

 

[Keystone agony]

Hooker is a better key tall, Pears is a better 3rd tall.

Thats how i see it

Pears will replace Fletcher or be backup for any of the (3) Hurley, Hooker, Fletcher injuries as he has been this year.

Carlisle, JoeD, Crameri will be our forwards

Ryder main ruck

TBC will be backup forward to JoeD, inj to Ryder or inj to carlisle

 

[Yoda_]

Can people please understand there is no point trading for picks when we are about to enter a potential premiership window ffs;

I do agree, but am torn between improving the squad through trade and holding onto players 'just in case'.



Just on Thomas Boyd (the likely no.1 draft pick).

Do we need him? He is more a traditional full forward, would allow Joe Daniher to play CHF and Crameri as a 3rd tall, allowing Carlisle, Hooker and Hurley to play back in our ultimate side in a year or to.

IF WE MANAGED TO GET THE NO.1 DRAFT PICK

I would pick this kid Aish. Absolute Jet and would compliment our midfield/forward line to a tee.

 

[Yoda_]

Hooker is a better key tall, Pears is a better 3rd tall.

Thats how i see it

Pears will replace Fletcher or be backup for any of the (3) Hurley, Hooker, Fletcher injuries as he has been this year.

If people are going to argue that Pears has played some outstanding footy, at least learn that he played as a KPP in 2009(?), so the "Pears is a better 3rd tall" argument is virtually invalid IMO.

 

[Yoda_]

Its mostly tank/endurance and strength

Guys are playing in the VFL because they are shit compared to AFL players. They arent strong, fast, fit enough and the AFL shows that up.

Its shown in both ends of the field its just not so evident to the human eye.

If you tracked VFL distances ran they would run far less at far slower speeds comapred to afl mids. The same would be for their bench press, core, squat strength test aswell in combination with that endurance the same would be for speed aswell as a combo of all the above it would generally be far less.

I kicked this argument off so I'll gladly continue the discussion.

I know that you can really only build a tank at AFL level, I get that, but the experiences of playing against seasoned midfielders at a lower level will hold these kids in good stead when they transition to become AFL midfielders.

Is it worth NO'B playing VFL midfield and then sitting him in a forward pocket at AFL level? no! he isn't learning anything at VFL level that directly corralates to his AFL role.

AFL forward pocket >>>>>>>> VFL midfielder >>>>>>>>>> VFL forward pocket

 

[Keystone agony]

If people are going to argue that Pears has played some outstanding footy, at least learn that he played as a KPP in 2009(?), so the "Pears is a better 3rd tall" argument is virtually invalid IMO.

5 years ago

Im not sure either how him playing KP 5 years ago doesnt mean hes a better 3rd tall now? makes no sense.

Abletts better at every position in the AFL just about except a very small few.

 

[Yoda_]

Just letting people know that GWS need to trim there list NEXT year to btw

 

[Keystone agony]

I kicked this argument off so I'll gladly continue the discussion.

I know that you can really only build a tank at AFL level, I get that, but the experiences of playing against seasoned midfielders at a lower level will hold these kids in good stead when they transition to become AFL midfielders.

Is it worth NO'B playing VFL midfield and then sitting him in a forward pocket at AFL level? no! he isn't learning anything at VFL level that directly corralates to his AFL role.

AFL forward pocket >>>>>>>> VFL midfielder >>>>>>>>>> VFL forward pocket

But he hasnt played at AFL level

Yep so whats your point? i dunno what your really getting at

 

[Yoda_]

But he hasnt played at AFL level

people are wanting to know why he (Nick O'Brien) is being discussed as a possible delisting.

I am giving them a reason, and an example as to why Essendon aren't exactly giving him the greatest of chances to make it.

 

[Keystone agony]

people are wanting to know why he (Nick O'Brien) is being discussed as a possible delisting.

I am giving them a reason, and an example as to why Essendon aren't exactly giving him the greatest of chances to make it.

Because hes one of the worst players on our list, so that speculation will always be there until proven otherwise.

A) remember hes only being discussed by fans, so it means SFA
b) I think hes being discussed by fans because hes in the back end of our list, a strongish draft apparently is coming up, hes been given 2 years reached his peak as an endurance runner is in ripping physical shape before the season but nothing has transpired of it, clearly he may not have the nous to become a midfielder or forward

 

[Yoda_]

Because hes one of the worst players on our list, so that speculation will always be there until proven otherwise.

A) remember hes only being discussed by fans, so it means SFA
b) I think hes being discussed by fans because hes in the back end of our list, a strongish draft apparently is coming up, hes been given 2 years reached his peak as an endurance runner is in ripping physical shape before the season but nothing has transpired of it, clearly he may not have the nous to become a midfielder or forward

Are we developing for our VFL team or for our AFL team? (just curious on your answer to this one)

 

[Keystone agony]

We have to make 3 list changes at a minimum to our main list (is my understanding, thats correct yeah?)

Hille and NLM will likely be retirements, who else gets the chopping block thats on the main list. The first players that come on my radar are those that arent getting a game at AFL level. Colyer, NOB, Browne ect

Those players have all been on the list for more then 2 years eg: Gregory havnt.

So at least one of those 3 have to go. However we could very well lose a Crameri, Hardingham, Gumby, Pears, TBC to the trade and the call for one of those may or may not be made

 

[Keystone agony]

Are we developing for our VFL team or for our AFL team? (just curious on your answer to this one)

Dont think anyone really needs to even answer that, the answer is already known.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Can people please understand there is no point trading for picks when we are about to enter a potential premiership window ffs;

The premiership window is a thing of the past. The good sides are drafting well and continuously improving their list. We need to do the same so we don't slide once Jobe and BJ retire.

 

[Yoda_]

Dont think anyone really needs to even answer that, the answer is already known.

(for our AFL team)

If we are developing our players in the VFL for our AFL team, then why are we playing them in positions that they wont be playing in at AFL level (O'Brien, even Leroy are cases in point here)

I agree, NO'B has hardly filled me with excitement in the several games I have seen him play across in his time with us, but we aren't really utilising his greatest strengths (marking, endurance) at VFL level to give him a chance to make it, instead, we are playing him out of position (yes in my eyes) more through neccesity of bigger bodies than for his development.

 

[Keystone agony]

(for our AFL team)

If we are developing our players in the VFL for our AFL team, then why are we playing them in positions that they wont be playing in at AFL level (O'Brien, even Leroy are cases in point here)

I agree, NO'B has hardly filled me with excitement in the several games I have seen him play across in his time with us, but we aren't really utilising his greatest strengths (marking, endurance) at VFL level to give him a chance to make it, instead, we are playing him out of position (yes in my eyes) more through neccesity of bigger bodies than for his development.

If we have a Watson, Hocking, Stanton, Zacka, Heppell, Goddard miss im sure we will cover with whats necessary whether they feel thats pushing an AFL forward upto the midfield or having our sub step in, then thats what they feel is best.

Why would they pick guys like NOB, Kav, Jetta when they arent showing enough of it consistently at VFL level.

His greatest strength is endurance, thus midfielder. Havnt seen enough of him to know his marking ability.

They are the best players at VFL level they play in the midfield and key positions. Im sure he spends his fair share forward as all rotations do these days.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

The premiership window is a thing of the past. The good sides are drafting well and continuously improving their list. We need to do the same so we don't slide once Jobe and BJ retire.

It's interesting - given that sides are getting better at staying thereabouts, and maintaining that winning culture and 'institutional experience' (for want of a better term) over teams that bottom out, it'll presumably catch on and lead to a tighter competition with more viable contenders, thus making it harder to win a flag in any given year. I wonder then if that might in turn lead to a careful, strategic bottom-out coming back into fashion, with the hope that a bonanza of young talent would provide an edge over those taking the steady approach.

 

[The Jet]

If we lose round 1 & round 2 draft picks for the next 2-3 seasons, how does this affect our next father/son pick for end of this year? Another Daniher ...

 

[HirdyLannister]

If we lose round 1 & round 2 draft picks for the next 2-3 seasons, how does this affect our next father/son pick for end of this year? Another Daniher ...

Makes the masses of squealing piglets cry even louder when we get a gun F/S at pick 50 +

 

[Yoda_]

If we have a Watson, Hocking, Stanton, Zacka, Heppell, Goddard miss im sure we will cover with whats necessary whether they feel thats pushing an AFL forward upto the midfield or having our sub step in, then thats what they feel is best.

Why would they pick guys like NOB, Kav, Jetta when they arent showing enough of it consistently at VFL level.

His greatest strength is endurance, thus midfielder. Havnt seen enough of him to know his marking ability.

They are the best players at VFL level they play in the midfield and key positions. Im sure he spends his fair share forward as all rotations do these days.

And then who comes in to cover for those guys? The same positional guys.. Or your happy to just put guys in the AFL that have ready made bodies not the guys who will fill those positions?

Your obviously not comprehending what I am trying to say are you?

 

[The Jet]

Makes the masses of squealing piglets cry even louder when we get a gun F/S at pick 50 +

The thing is these days, a 1st round must be used for a father/son pick or other clubs can have a free shot at him if they want to draft ihm, if they do, you have to use ur 1st pick on him, in the same round as the other club.

I'm sure that's how it works now.

 

[HirdyLannister]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...don-key-forwards/story-fni5fazt-1226673371529

THE Western Bulldogs have made a double-barrelled assault on two Essendon forwards - Scott Gumbleton and Stewart Crameri.
They hope to squirrel one of the out-of-contract key forwards out of Windy Hill at the end of the season, although they are expected to have competition for Gumbleton from Carlton.
Crameri is expected to re-sign with the Bombers.
The Bulldogs and Blues gave 24-year-old Gumbleton a medical assessment last year, which he failed.
He signed a one-year contract at the Bombers and has proved this year he is over his hamstring/back complaints and has played every game, be it in the AFL or VFL.
The emergence of Joe Daniher makes it increasingly likely Gumbleton would remain a back-up forward if he chose to stay at Windy Hill
The Bulldogs are desperate to bulk up their forward line to assist the emerging Liam Jones, while the Blues need key forwards which would mean (1) they didn't play their ruckmen out of the goalsquare and (2) they could entertain a trade for either Robert Warnock or Shaun Hampson.
Gumbleton could earn as much as $300,000 - which would be heavily incentive-based - if he switched clubs.
With Gumbleton a No.2 draft pick, the Bombers would hope for an early second-round selection in a trade.
Crameri, also 24, is the No.1 target for the Dogs and their offer is about $450,000 a season for three years.
The Bombers have countered with an offer of about $350,000-$380,000 a season.
Although Crameri struck up a close relationship with Bulldogs coach Brendan McCartney during McCartney's one year at Essendon, his relationship with Bombers coach James Hird is almost certain to result in him knocking back rival offers.
The Bombers are extremely confident Crameri will sign a new contract.
The worry is exactly when.
Manager Paul Connors is in charge of Gumbleton and Crameri, and Connors is currently overseas.
There is a belief he wants to wait until the drugs investigation is over before completing any deals.
Bulldogs chief executive Simon Garlich last night would not discuss specific names, but said the club would be aggressive in the market place, nowithstanding GWS auctioning off of the No.1 pick in the national draft.
"We will be similar to most clubs and we will going as hard as we can within reason," Garlich said. "We will be targeting specific players in assisting us."
The Blues will meet during the coming weeks to discuss their list management, including Gumbleton.
Another out-of-contract Bomber, Tom Bellchambers, is understood to be of interest to GWS and Collingwood.

 

[HirdyLannister]

The thing is these days, a 1st round must be used for a father/son pick or other clubs can have a free shot at him if they want to draft ihm, if they do, you have to use ur 1st pick on him, in the same round as the other club.

I'm sure that's how it works now.

I doubt the AFL would penalise a kid that wanted to follow in his fathers footsteps . . .

 

[Old Campaigner]

It's interesting - given that sides are getting better at staying thereabouts, and maintaining that winning culture and 'institutional experience' (for want of a better term) over teams that bottom out, it'll presumably catch on and lead to a tighter competition with more viable contenders, thus making it harder to win a flag in any given year. I wonder then if that might in turn lead to a careful, strategic bottom-out coming back into fashion, with the hope that a bonanza of young talent would provide an edge over those taking the steady approach.

I think once the other sides catch up it will simply result in their being more competition for the talent available at late picks, and it'll be a race for recruiters to develop better methods for assessing young players.