Playfair over Davis?

[ssfc0203]

There has been some interesting discussion over the merits of having Henry Playfair in the team over Nick Davis recently, and I thought it deserved a thread of its own being such a prominent topic.

Taking the media into consideration, Triple M Melbourne have held an interview with Ryan O'Keefe which went roughly as follows;

"Not sure, I'm not a selector, have to wait and see. It's a tough one. He kicked 5, played well in the ressies, but just kicking goals isn't enough these days. You need to have a defensive side to your game."

..whereas Playfair receives praise on a regular basis for being a selectively defensive forward.

Does Playfair carry more importance than Nick Davis does come finals time?
(Don't make Nick go! :[)

 

[grimlock]

I don't feel if its a question of Davis or Playfair. It really is a question of whether Davis can force his way back into the side, at Playfair or someone else's expense.

Some interesting quotes here
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/afl/story/0,27009,23867784-5016140,00.html

However, Roos believes Fosdike, after overcoming minor knee surgery in the pre-season, is on the verge of regaining his place in the best 22.

"Fossie for the first time comes into contention this week for selection," Roos said.

"He's probably in a little bit of a different position to Davo and Benny Mathews, Luke Brennan, and younger guys like Nick Smith and Jesse White.

and here

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23868426-5012432,00.html

The Swans' forward line is potent and Roos believes there is room to retain former Geelong big man Henry Playfair, who came into the side during Hall's enforced absence.

"The real beneficiary is Mick O'Loughlin and you could see how good he was against St Kilda, they couldn't stop him," Roos said of the veteran who had 19 disposals and kicked three goals.

"All of a sudden the opposition has to decide - there's Hall and there's Playfair, and they've got to put a bigger body on Henry as well. Some of the things he did were really good and it frees up Ryan O'Keefe and then there are the small forwards in Jarred Moore and Amon Buchanan. I like the mix."

 

[Corpuscles]

Good quotes^ provides insight. Excellent stuff.

Ok forgive this long winded rant but this issue isn't going to go far from several posters minds so I wish to give my more complete take on it all.

Firstly I really enjoy N Davis when he plays well can be a very exciting player with accurate goal kicking the main feature. BUT

Modern Swans gameplan is totally built on foundation of 100% committment from all with emphasis on defensive pressure

05 06 It was revolutionary

07 Other teams worked it out and dependance on Hall and ROK as go forward avenues was known and countered. IT became predictable.

08 Something new had to happen

Lets look at the forwardline group.

Micky O - needs space, excellent when one on one. Is agile for someone his height and marking ability usually opposition have to put a slower tall on him. Excellent overhead if one out either using body or on the sprint with ball out in front. Less effective if has to contest for pack marks

ROK - huge fit motor, excellent hands deceptively agile for height (can play tall or small). Marking is exceptional because he can take them clean at full pace

Hall - Strong tall can take it overhead but by no means an exceptional overhead pack mark prefers out in front and prefers chest or hands way out in front

Bevan & Moore - Tough nuts, reliable kick at goal but is there to crumb and put defensive pressure to retain ball inside 50

Who do they add to that Playfair or Davis????????

Swans desperate never give up style means often eg a Kirk or Ablett gains centre clearance with a quick forward entry bomb under pressure. In that situation it will be likely a contestable high ball. Need strong body with height to contest that has ability to take a grab overhead or bring it to ground and spoil. They also must be prepared to chase and scrap with defensive pressure as any spills will require a hard ball get! - Playfair tall mature body can contest pack overhead, demonstrated he is prepared to run even as decoy. Davis? can be good at the contest but prefers to find his own space for a quick pass out of such congestion.

To give MOL a one on one contest, need to drag KP backs out of the way someone who will run decoy and present often . ROK busted himself in a solo act last year trying to do this. Davis didn't. Even Schneids was dropped when he didn't

Swans have an especially short undersize backline by throwing Ruckman Spida or Jolly forward it can take "tall" pressure off backline by draging a anothor opposition tall into our forwardline. Placing another tall (Playfair) there already helps achieve this.

Nick D is a clever skilled footballer but IS NOT good overhead although has taken some good ones occasionally. ( IMO leaps too late and holds hands too high(vertical), so ball easily spoilled) Not a high leaper, relatively short, prefers a body on body one on one contest will never fly in a pack. Often loses his feet. But is clever and good lead on burst if ball is delivered out in front for chest mark.


In several years as a SWAN does anyone recall Nick D putting in a solid 4 quarter performance?? He is clearly more skilled than Playfair but surely you can see Playfair is having a redandwhite hot go, all game and prepared to be the sacrifical decoy.

Nicks best chance is if injury strikes one of the shorter players. IMO he should be made to play 80+ mins in midfield in ressies with emphasis on in and under contested ball and defensive accountability on a good opposition midfielder.

May not even be worth 2cents

Your turn!

 

[MF]

(Don't make Nick go! :[)

Busted

 

[natlovestheswans]

Kritika, title should have been "Playfair (and) over Davis?" Haha.

Hm, i'm on the fence with this though. I love Davis and i'd love to see him back in the team playing well and doing all the team stuff, but I don't know if I can see it happening. Then there's Henry.. who I can't stand and who I honestly don't think is playing all that well.. but he's having at a go at it and he does add that little something extra to the team. But then when finals comes do we need Davo? There's no guarantee that he's gonna pull something out of the bag. But I guess Davis needs a bit more time in the ressies and Henry needs more of a go in the seniors.. especially to see how he works with Barry in the forward line aswell. I guess then the decision will be made?

Sorry, that was a ton of random thoughts.. wasn't ment to make sense.

 

[hammo_cheersquad]

PLAYFAIR
NEEDS TO IMPROVE ACCURACY
just stating the obvious
a good player though, always around the footy
just doesnt have a great sence to find the goals
davis would just about have to be in the worst form of his life
yet no one will EVER forget what he did in that final against the cats in 05

 

[MF]

Can anyone else see the parallels between this argument and the LRT one?
Playfair is basicly just the LRT of our forward line. It's an argument of actual output vs value to team structure. Unfortunately one that I can no longer be bothered arguing. Let's just see how it pans out.

 

[grimlock]

Playfair is basicly just the LRT of our forward line.

Nice analogy. I think Roos sees a third tall as an important aspect of the side. He started with Grundy earlier this year before Reg got injured and now Playfair has slotted in well.

 

[liz]

I like Corpusles' analysis. Structurally, Playfair is adding something different. I do think Davis is a chance to get back in but it will probably be at the expense of Moore or Monty (or if one of those two gets injured) and if he does get back in, he'll need to take his share of time working his butt off in the midfield, as both those two do.

I really have no idea what role they see him playing if he comes back in. For the last month he's been playing across half-back. Yet come Saturday afternoon, he was back in the forward line. Maybe it was a test to see if he could convert what he'd learned about backline pressure to the forward line. If so, I'm not convinced he passed that test.

If he does get back in, the greatest asset he potentially brings to the team is not his goal kicking IMO - but his field kicking. But to get the most out of that we need him further up the ground, delivering into the forward 50.

 

[J-swan]

I think you hit the nail on the head Corpusles.
I love Dickie, one of my daughters wears his number, but the fact of the matter is that Henry is bringing to the team what Roosy wants brought to the team and Dickie, whether through laziness or because he's a showpony (or both), could never in a million years do what Henry is doing.
BTW very good analogy LRT = Henry

 

[ssfc0203]

Busted

Yup. Playfair seems to be in to stabilise the forward line structurally more than anything, but I'm not sure whether we can sustain the mistakes he makes against harder opponents. Say we have a Mackie on him .. the whole team would pay dividends for every little mistake he would make.
Saturday's game he kicked an out on the full 2m from the attacking 50, we contained the influence an injury battered St Kilda could have created with it, but how will we go containing what Geelong or Hawthorn could make of it?

 

[Banyo Bloods]

With those comments quoted earlier I can't see Davis returning too soon over Playfair quite depressing really. Though as they say a week is a long time in football and anything can happen such as an injury or getting smacked by Melbourne with an insipid performance ( highly unlikely but can happen)

Good defenders may exploit Playfair but they have probably been doing the same to Davis. Henry is presenting and I can't watch the ressies so it looks like Palyfair over Davis for sure for the time being and seasons running out sort of for two many others to break in when the wins are coming.

Jeez we were bad against West Coast until half time if that game had of continued like that who knows what could have happened to confidence and team balance as it was Barlow seemed to be a victim of performance in that one not making the emergency list (but perhaps a small injury as well)

Did anyone else pick up on Goodes checking to see if Del Santo (sp) was okay after Jolly climbed his back for the spekky. And opposition supporters think he is a sniper dirty son of a blah blah blah absolute credit to the game as I remind my one eyed Lions supporter of a Father often.

 

[MF]

Did anyone else pick up on Goodes checking to see if Del Santo (sp) was okay after Jolly climbed his back for the spekky. And opposition supporters think he is a sniper dirty son of a blah blah blah absolute credit to the game as I remind my one eyed Lions supporter of a Father often.

Yeah, I thought I saw him put his hand on him as though to make sure he was okay. It was good to see but all the sniping BS aside I actually love the fact that Goodes has a bit more mongrel in his games these days, nothing wrong with a bit of 'controlled agression.

 

[CAS79]

There is no doubt Playfair is working hard and has done a few good things but were still waiting to see if he can make an impact against a top eight them with the pressure on. The kicking is nothing short of woeful and makes me wonder if Andrew Dunkly was his kicking coach.

Other than that he presents well and in intelligent positions and is prepared to back his teammates up by running with them. There are positives with Henry but for a forward there are only so many cases of the yips he will be allowed.

If it was my personal opinion Davis would get at least another shot to prove himself, it's not every day someone with a goal scoring ability like his comes along, but the question over the desire of the coaching staff remains.

 

[Bloods_33]

Yeah, I thought I saw him put his hand on him as though to make sure he was okay. It was good to see but all the sniping BS aside I actually love the fact that Goodes has a bit more mongrel in his games these days, nothing wrong with a bit of 'controlled agression.

here here goodsey if anything is too much of a sportsman, how people see him as a dirty player or sniper is beyond me. I think he still needs more aggression at the footy and more intensity at the contest.
funny i wonder if buddy will be called a dirty mongrel or sniper now that he also got off, is he a protected species also.

 

[Bloods_33]

Can anyone else see the parallels between this argument and the LRT one?
Playfair is basicly just the LRT of our forward line. It's an argument of actual output vs value to team structure. Unfortunately one that I can no longer be bothered arguing. Let's just see how it pans out.

great comparison, I stand corrected henry might add more to the side than our other options Davo, Jesse white, grundy. I don't like him as a player though a don't think he's dangerous enough overhead, he isn't quick or strong and has little skill. All I can say is I hope he maintains his effort because if he drops off good sides will put running half backs on him who will tear us appart.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

here here goodsey if anything is too much of a sportsman, how people see him as a dirty player or sniper is beyond me. I think he still needs more aggression at the footy and more intensity at the contest.
funny i wonder if buddy will be called a dirty mongrel or sniper now that he also got off, is he a protected species also.

Not really a lot of people are sympathetic saying because Goodes got off they had to let Franklin off so the decision on Goodes doesn't look biased there is so much BS on BF such as the majority of my posts ha ha ha

 

[Bloods_33]

still I think goodsey gets a bad rap, but at least all the attention seems to be getting him the free kicks that any dual brownlow medalist should receive

 

[Banyo Bloods]

Yeah, I thought I saw him put his hand on him as though to make sure he was okay. It was good to see but all the sniping BS aside I actually love the fact that Goodes has a bit more mongrel in his games these days, nothing wrong with a bit of 'controlled agression.

Good eye Malceski fan and interesting point.

Controlled agression would make opposition fans fear him he looks huge when he is bursting out of the centre against some of those rovers.

The thing I want to see go from his game and probably just needs someone to show him some vision of a few incidents I've picked up on. Is he holds the ball high in the air when the umpire blows the whistle usually because he has heard the whistle and stops but the tagger or tackler goes on with it a bit and is wrapping a stationary Goodes up. Well he swings the arms to break the hold whilst his eyes focus on the ump in a way to show he is doing the right thing not the would be tackler. This is where he can run into trouble and get those should he or shouldn't he go minor incidents if he makes elbow contact.

Enough of my rant however as I love true sportsmanship and I hope he keeps it in his game. It's what endeared Pat Rafter over Lleyton Hewitt to me.

 

[Maddhew]

Back to the point of the OP.

Id rather Davis, Henry has shown nothing to get me excited thus far. Another poor game this weekend and Davis might be back, especially as the games get harder.

 

[carsoutback]

There is quite a stinging criticism of Davis in those comments by ROK. After all this time, after all the headlines of his rehabilitation/rejuvenation/change of attitude/KFC-free diet - his teammates still don't believe Davis provides what the team needs.

But it just seems to me, reading the coach's comments, that the biggest hurdle to the return of Davis is the form of O'Loughlin. Seems inconceivable that Roos will change the current structure whilst MOL is in "career-best form", particularly as the coach obviously believes it's the current structure that allows him to be at his best. It's a structure that, by any measure, is far superior to that of 2007, so it's hard to argue.

As for Davis himself...I reckon there's a "well of goodwill" that all players have that forgives them for poor form, attitude, behaviour, etc. Just think that Davis has gone to that well too often in his career and his days at the Swans are now numbered.

 

[SouthSwans]

Fossie for the first time comes into contention this week for selection," Roos said.

"He's probably in a little bit of a different position to Davo and Benny Mathews, Luke Brennan.

In short, Fosdike is still in the long term plans of the club and Davis, Mathews and Brennan are going to be moved on at the end of the year.

 

[grimlock]

You're not going to like this Kritika.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...oos-tells-davis/2008/06/16/1213468333969.html
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/afl/story/0,27009,23873581-5016140,00.html

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Contracted until 2011? How long was his contract?

 

[whiteandred]

would love to think that he could turn it around, he is an asset when he wants to do it! ... but I just can't help imagining him on the Gold Coast ... an ideal "marquee player" for the new franchise ... grab a short term deal there, and then come back to West Sydney ....? I'll bet there are plenty of players looking to cash in on these opportunities!