polygamy in Australia

[fairdinkum]

So your opposition to siblings marrying is based on genetic defects in offspring? Then you would you be fine with two brothers marrying? Hurts no one right?

Siblings cannot marry as it stands right now, cancat. I've yet to hear anybody argue that siblings should be allowed to marry, on either side of the gay marriage argument.

Yours is a strawman argument.

Marriage is still for life. Unless there are some vows that specify a fixed period of time that I have not heard about.

You need to keep abreast of legislation in this country regarding marriage. That legislation has in fact changed over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_divorce#Australia

 

[cancat]

Siblings cannot marry as it stands right now, cancat. I've yet to hear anybody argue that siblings should be allowed to marry, on either side of the gay marriage argument

Call it a hypothetical if you like. Skipper Kelly wants to marry his brother. What's your objection?

 

[fairdinkum]

Call it a hypothetical if you like. Skipper Kelly wants to marry his brother. What's your objection?

My mate wants to marry an adult female alien of a rather human-like species.

What's your objection?

 

[cancat]

My mate wants to marry an adult female alien of a rather human-like species.

What's your objection?

I'm fine with the relationship but not to them getting married.

I support maintaining the Marriage Act in its current form. My position flows from my strong conviction that the institution of marriage has come to have a particular meaning and standing in our culture and nation, and that should continue unchanged.

Now you answer my question.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I'm fine with the relationship but not to them getting married.

I support maintaining the Marriage Act in its current form. My position flows from my strong conviction that the institution of marriage has come to have a particular meaning and standing in our culture and nation, and that should continue unchanged.

Now you answer my question.

It reallly is an institutions of a high standing in our culture: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/CC6BED7266C21AD4CA2579570013BF0F?opendocument

 

[fairdinkum]

I'm fine with the relationship but not to them getting married.

I support maintaining the Marriage Act in its current form.

Does the Marriage Act specify that humanoids cannot marry?

 

[poweredup]

Just to set the scene, I am in favour of gay marriage, have no issue with it, don't think it hurts anyone and I have a live and let live attitude and I am generally tolerant of differences.

But, polygamist marriage, is a completely different kettle of fish, should definitely not be allowed, way too many issues for concern for my liking.

I read a book on this, written by a girl who was married off at 14 and abused until she "escaped", it documented clearly what goes on in the communities that practice polygamy, and it is definitely scarey.

Most of the women in these communities are married off VERY young, and they have no choice in it, and they only get one husband - not one of their choosing. given this, allowing polygamist marriage is ultimately encouraging the removal of womens rights.

It is also an incestuous practice, inter-breading is a big issue , there was one bloke that fathered about 24 kids, and given that these families all move in the same circles the chances of inter-breading down the track are incredibly high. There are some clips on youtube that I looked up and the women are very submissive, quietly spoken and don't appear quite "right" ???

These people move to this country knowing our laws and that this is not accepted in our culture and yet they chose to come here, they should respect our position and we should not accommodate this under any circumstances.

I think it is important that we maintain some elements of our culture that are important to the way we live our life.

It should not be legal, it should be illegal.

 

[cancat]

It reallly is an institutions of a high standing in our culture: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/CC6BED7266C21AD4CA2579570013BF0F?opendocument

Take it up with the Prime Minister. I quoted her

Does the Marriage Act specify that humanoids cannot marry?

It was a worthy bump of the thread. But now you are being silly in order to avoid answering my question.

 

[fairdinkum]

It was a worthy bump of the thread. But now you are being silly in order to avoid answering my question.

You are asking silly questions in an attempt to validate your straw-man argument. And not answering my counter-questions.

Show me two brothers who genuinely want to get married and then we might have a side-topic to discuss. But it still wouldn't be at the heart of the issue.

 

[Scotland]

But, polygamist marriage, is a completely different kettle of fish, should definitely not be allowed, way too many issues for concern for my liking.

I read a book on this, written by a girl who was married off at 14 and abused until she "escaped", it documented clearly what goes on in the communities that practice polygamy, and it is definitely scarey.

Most of the women in these communities are married off VERY young, and they have no choice in it, and they only get one husband - not one of their choosing. given this, allowing polygamist marriage is ultimately encouraging the removal of womens rights.

Sounds like you are more against arranged marriage than polygamist marriage.

'Marrying off' a 14 year old girl is not the same as two consenting adult women deciding they'd like to share the same man.

 

[poweredup]

Sounds like you are more against arranged marriage than polygamist marriage.

'Marrying off' a 14 year old girl is not the same as two consenting adult women deciding they'd like to share the same man.

Well I don't love the idea of arranged marriages because ultimately the two people getting married are probably doing it to please others, not themselves, but if they are two adults they can make the choice whether to do that to please their parents or not and it doesn't really affect the broader community in my view. But hey, it's probably as much chance of being successful as another marriage.

But I guess the point that I was trying to make, albeit badly, was that these things tend to go together, polygamy, young brides being married off against their will, and essentially r*ped, closed communities, lots of children to one father, inter-breeding. I think it is just an excuse for blokes to be in a position of power, have sex on tap with a lot of women and justify it.

And what about the legal implications around things like property ownership, taxes, centrelink payments, child support, estates etc. Our systems are just not set up to deal with these relationships and nor should they be.

If a bloke wants to live with and bang two adult women, and they are both ok with it, then go for it, but just don't call it a marriage and expect the community to agree with you.

 

[Scotland]

If a bloke wants to live with and bang two adult women, and they are both ok with it, then go for it, but just don't call it a marriage and expect the community to agree with you.

One could easily say the same about a bloke and another bloke...

 

[cancat]

You are asking silly questions in an attempt to validate your straw-man argument. And not answering my counter-questions

I answered your question but you didn't answer mine. You asked another question instead. Quid pro quo?

 

[poweredup]

One could easily say the same about a bloke and another bloke...

Not really, if it is one bloke committed to another bloke at the exclusion of all others, then that looks a lot more like a marriage to me. If he wants to be with more than one, then that just aint marriage.

The basic premise of a marriage is that you want comit to and build a life with one other person - til death do us part etc Not always the end result I know, but should at least be the intention when you enter into it.

 

[Malifice]

I support polygamy.

Cant see how one can not support it.

If I want to marry 5 chicks and a dude, why shouldnt I be able to?

As long as my 5 wives and husband are all down with it.

 

[Scotland]

Not really, if it is one bloke committed to another bloke at the exclusion of all others, then that looks a lot more like a marriage to me. If he wants to be with more than one, then that just aint marriage.

The basic premise of a marriage is that you want comit to and build a life with one other person - til death do us part etc Not always the end result I know, but should at least be the intention when you enter into it.

You're arguing based on your definition of marriage.

The 'basic premise' of marriage varies depending who you talk to, but in the eyes of the law (rightly or otherwise) it is a legal union between a man and a woman.

I'm yet to see a conclusive argument for why the term marriage is sacred to the commitment between just two people but not to the commitment between a man and a woman.

 

[powerful girl]

I support polygamy.

Cant see how one can not support it.

If I want to marry 5 chicks and a dude, why shouldnt I be able to?

As long as my 5 wives and husband are all down with it.

You can do what you want with 5 chicks and a dude, it's just not a marriage as we have come to know it in this country.

 

[cancat]

You can do what you want with 5 chicks and a dude, it's just not a marriage as we have come to know it in this country.

So I can't marry my 5 goats and a monkey? They are all 'down with it'

 

[Niximus]

So I can't marry my 5 goats and a monkey? They are all 'down with it'

An American example but..

(Right-click > View Image)

 

[Scotland]

You can do what you want with 5 chicks and a dude, it's just not a marriage as we have come to know it in this country.

Isn't a 'marriage as we have come to know it in this country' the union of a man and a woman?

 

[powerful girl]

Isn't a 'marriage as we have come to know it in this country' the union of a man and a woman?

I thought it was one person committing to to another until death us do part.

 

[raskolnikov]

I'd argue against polygamy from a moral/philosophical position(marriage being between two people who love each other and love excludes a third party). From an entirely legal point of view I have no problem with it.

 

[Scotland]

I thought it was one person committing to to another until death us do part.

Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, do you take this man to be your lawfully wedded husband... Etc.

I would say the majority of Australians identify the above with 'marriage as we have come to know it in this country'.

 

[Niximus]

I'd argue against polygamy from a moral/philosophical position(marriage being between two people who love each other and love excludes a third party). From an entirely legal point of view I have no problem with it.

I'd be the complete opposite.

I have no moral objection to it and the only argument I can see against it is a legal one.

That is because while broadening who is able to marry to any two consenting adults really doesn't change the legalities of a marriage at all, polygamy would legally be a completely different beast. i.e. If posessions are owned 50/50 in a marriage, how do you work it if a guy has 3 wives and 2 husbands and is divorcing one of the wives who also has 2 wives and 3 husbands?

 

[powerful girl]

Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, do you take this man to be your lawfully wedded husband... Etc.

I would say the majority of Australians identify the above with 'marriage as we have come to know it in this country'.

Maybe the case, and the gay marriage issue is a shift from that position, I accept that, but I think as Australians we are a lot more tolerant and supportive of same sex relationships than we used to be, and I think this is a good thing, and is the reason that approval of gay marriage is the logical next step and a debate about it should be had. It is probably like the Federation issue, we will debate it for years and eventually it will probably happen, but not in any hurrry because ultimately we are a conservative lot.
Having said that, I don't think we are even close as a community to accepting the "do you take this wife and that wife and that wife and that wife to live with you in holy matrimony" thing just yet. Way to many issues to consider.

Legally we are not even close to having systems in place to support it, but we do when it comes to same sex relationships. The Federal government has already introduced all of the necessary changes to legally recognise same sex couples when it comes to centrelink, tax etc