Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread

[Noobz0r]

Sounds as if you didn't have the speakers on or weren't paying attention to what he was saying.
Our movement under Kern has not been that different just a tad more refined thanks to having more players available as well as fitter players.

That is apart from the last few games when he (Primus) was forced to try and save his scalp. They were somewhat different to what he had previously been trying to do.

He was saying head to the boundary so we don't get hurt on the counter attack. Which I would agree with if there was a zone / wall in place.

But there wasn't. We were on the rebound and Sydney weren't organised. The perfect opportunity to score, not limit losses.

Under Ken in thati situation, we would look to hit a target in the square, and create a chain of handballs and kicks, getting into the f50 quickly. Completely different.

 

[Us against the rest]

in the end Choco probably coached a year to much, if he retired from port a year earlier Primus wouldnt have been ready we probably would have gotten a half decent coach that may have changed everything about our club and our list before it was too late... since he didnt retire a year earlier we got Primus (who was doomed to fail, due to really no support). Two years later (2013) our list looks completely different and looks to have a bright future

Intelligent post

 

[Us against the rest]

For ease of reading.

Ken is going to be one of those great coaches.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

"Fact"? Please, tell me more!

Go down to the club and (if you can, i was lucky enough to) go have a talk to some of the players who was playing at the time of 2001-2004, they will tell you the same thing.

 

[Stromageddon]

I was really young in 2004 and if I remember correctly, the only game Primus played in that year, we lost, and after that in 2005 we didn't play even nearly as well when he was in the side. Well, at least that's how I saw it. I just thought he was a horrible player that made our team lose.

 

[Us against the rest]

All i can say is and it has nothing to do with KH, Primus played with heart and was a great club man and i believe he coached best he could with what he had to work with and with the Port's best interest a heart. He at least tried to stop the embarrassing floggings we were getting to a point of where we had a better average loosing margin than Collingwood.

 

[Schulzenfest]

The way that Primus talks in that video is extremely defeatist and negative.

And that was reflected in his coaching.

I am 99% confident that we wouldn't be sitting 7-5 if Matthew Primus was still our coach.

Our movement under Kern has not been that different just a tad more refined thanks to having more players available as well as fitter players.

That's funny, I don't remember seeing any painfully slow triple switches this year. Nor do I remember seeing about 75% of our players instinctively looking backwards after taking a mark.

 

[Janus]

"Fact"? Please, tell me more!

Yes, I too would like to know this 'fact'. Since he didn't play for the majority of the year.

 

[Portmanteau]

I disagree Primus by all rights was still the captain, you dont take the captaincy off of someone its their right to keep it or give it to someone else. I think primus's coaching career has really damaged the impact that he had on our club... We wouldnt have won the 04 flag if it wasnt fr primus... Fact.

If someone captains your team to a premiership, having been in the spot for basically the whole season (and some/most of the preceding seasons) and you're coming off a knee, you give up the captaincy.

Aside from the captaincy, we were absolutely hamstrung by inserting our "two new recruits" straight back into the first string midfield WHILE RECUPERATING FROM ACLS. Meanwhile, Dean Brogan who was coming off an AA level season in the ruck was confined to the shadows while we **** around with an unworkable three ruck line-up and the premiership defense gets coughed up. Funny how that gets lost in the "respecting our champions" debate.

 

[Janus]

Go down to the club and (if you can, i was lucky enough to) go have a talk to some of the players who was playing at the time of 2001-2004, they will tell you the same thing.

Probably the same players who voted for Primus to take back the captaincy over the premiership winning Tredrea. It's no surprise that when they got their way, it became cruise city in 05 because hey, the job was done.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

So much for the "respecting our champions" that Hinkley keeps saying. Primus was a champion of the port adelaide football club and deserves to be seen as one.. yes he was a bad coach for us, but as a player he was one of our best.

 

[*PAF]

This revisionist BS is making me sick. ...

And just who are the revisionists? The ones that credit Hinkley with the new found fitness? The ones that credit Hinkley with having spent last year scouting the country for players to target such as Hombsch, Neade, Heath, Stevenson and Monfries? The ones that say injuries to key players last year had nothing to do with the outcome yet post that our run of 5 losses was mainly due to not having Trengove and Pittard in the team? The ones that used to post that O'Shea and Jonas were crap and Primus was flogging dead horses? The list can go on and even include assistant coaches.

... I'll say it again: Any player who, coming back from injury, decides that he will take back the captaincy from a captain who has just helped steer the club to a premiership does not have the club's best interests at heart.
...

Can you name many examples when what you say should have happened did happen?

...
Anyone who looks at what Hinkley has done and thinks that Primus could have done the same with the same support is deluded. ...

Quote one poster that has said exactly that. I certainly have never read it.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

If someone captains your team to a premiership, having been in the spot for basically the whole season (and some/most of the preceding seasons) and you're coming off a knee, you give up the captaincy.

So if Boaky had an ACL and Ebert had to take over and we won the premiership you would be fine with Port saying to bad boaky Ebert is captain now?... thats not how clubs work

 

[Us against the rest]

I was really young in 2004 and if I remember correctly, the only game Primus played in that year, we lost, and after that in 2005 we didn't play even nearly as well when he was in the side. Well, at least that's how I saw it. I just thought he was a horrible player that made our team lose.

He was great in Ruck until the afl changed the rules where the ruckman took control of the ball, out of the air and was touched by an opposition player it was holding the ball.

 

[Peck]

I was really young in 2004 and if I remember correctly, the only game Primus played in that year, we lost, and after that in 2005 we didn't play even nearly as well when he was in the side. Well, at least that's how I saw it. I just thought he was a horrible player that made our team lose.

He kicked 4 goals to half time in our epic flogging of Hawthorn. I was there.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

Probably the same players who voted for Primus to take back the captaincy over the premiership winning Tredrea. It's no surprise that when they got their way, it became cruise city in 05 because hey, the job was done.

If the players voted him in to captain again in 2005 then he deserved it... Primus was the best captain we ever had (leadership wise), need proof go listen to Open mike with Tredrea on it, say the same thing.

 

[Stromageddon]

He kicked 4 goals to half time in our epic flogging of Hawthorn. I was there.

Were you the only one there?

 

[*PAF]

... Which I would agree with if there was a zone / wall in place.
But there wasn't.
...

I think you need to look again.
After that look for subsequent clips where he said that he wanted players to start taking more risks and gave examples of that.

 

[Portmanteau]

So if Boaky had an ACL and Ebert had to take over and we won the premiership you would be fine with Port saying to bad boaky Ebert is captain now?... thats not how clubs work

If we had just won the premiership, and Ebert had elevated himself to the level of best player in the AFL and Boak was a spent force, obviously yes.

At the end of the day, a player who was surplus to requirements was reinstated as the captain. In characteristically arrogant fashion from the club at the time, we thought we could defend the premiership by relegating the guys who got us there to the background. And we failed miserably.

 

[Peck]

Were you the only one there?

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/M/Matthew_Primus.html


nope, there was an annoying essendon supporter in front of me tho.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

If we had just won the premiership, and Ebert had elevated himself to the level of best player in the AFL and Boak was a spent force, obviously yes.

At the end of the day, a player who was surplus to requirements was reinstated as the captain.

No. That's not how it works, in the end tredrea was just a stand in captain in a good year, doesn't mean primus had to give up the captaincy.

 

[Stromageddon]

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/M/Matthew_Primus.html


nope, there was an annoying essendon supporter in front of me tho.

Nah, I was trying to make a joke about the poor crowd. Turns out it was the other game against Hawks that only drew 11k to the MCG.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2004/101320040718.html

bandwagon supporters if i ever seen em

 

[Hellgood]

He was great in Ruck until the afl changed the rules where the ruckman took control of the ball, out of the air and was touched by an opposition player it was holding the ball.

I was young, but he was a great ruckman. He caused the rule change, but the rule change had nothing to do with his decline, that was his knee injuries.

Theres no doubting that Primus suffered due to the relative lack of resources made available to him. But he never really gave me any confidence from whenever I heard him speak in the way that Hinkley (or any good coach does). Of course how he speaks to the media is different to the players, but there was no sign of structures being developed under his reign, there wasn't really any signs that the players would run through brick walls for him and nor were there signs that he was learning from his matchday mistakes (Harry O'Brien).

He did do a couple of things that I liked. Whilst it was hard at the time, the persistence with O'Shea in 2011 is looking good in hidsight when not many liked it at the time. Unfortunately for Matt, this probably gets mitigated by the management of O'Shea in 2012, where he played a couple of games, had that horror 10 minutes as sub and was banished. The phasing out of Rodan was the right call - despite being attacked for it by the media and the facebook fans. Young was given some good opportunities to develop.

The whole thing with Kane, I'm still conflicted on. It's hard to tell without knowing the full story whether Kane was being phased out for the sake of being phased out, was dropped because he wasn't following team rules or dropped for playing poorly. If it was the last two, then I am comfortable with Primus' actions, however if it was the first, then thats another mark against him.

It's harsh on him I know given he was handed a fractured playing group with a shoestring budget for staff, but I just never saw or heard anything from him that made him sound like the right man for the job. I was willing to wait and see out last season with him due to the factors against him, but the embarrasment that was the GWS game meant change had to occur immediately.

 

[Us against the rest]

So much for the "respecting our champions" that Hinkley keeps saying. Primus was a champion of the port adelaide football club and deserves to be seen as one.. yes he was a bad coach for us, but as a player he was one of our best.

Agreed, it's about time we started looking after our loyal champions and yes i think Primus was a true Port man.

 

[Janus]

And just who are the revisionists? The ones that credit Hinkley with the new found fitness? The ones that credit Hinkley with having spent last year scouting the country for players to target such as Hombsch, Neade, Heath, Stevenson and Monfries? The ones that say injuries to key players last year had nothing to do with the outcome yet post that our run of 5 losses was mainly due to not having Trengove and Pittard in the team? The ones that used to post that O'Shea and Jonas were crap and Primus was flogging dead horses? The list can go on and even include assistant coaches.

I don't deal with 'what ifs'. I deal with facts. The facts are that Primus didn't have Hombsch (who has only played the past three games or so), Neade, Heath (who is in and out of the side), Stevenson (who hasn't been seen since things started getting hard) and Monfries. Apart from Gus, we're talking about intangibles here - who knows if they would have been any good under Primus? But he did have O'Shea and Jonas. And they WERE crap last year, because Primus flogged them into the ground by not giving them the confidence to play their natural game.

Do you think that Hinkley has no input as to what the fitness of the players is like? Wasn't it Hinkley who, after the players had come back from their first 3k run and started doing ball work, told them that their skills weren't crisp enough and they couldn't waste time, so go and run it again in the same time or better - because we can't afford to waste time? It wasn't Burgess who said that.

Can you name many examples when what you say should have happened did happen?

Not off the top of my head. Probably because most captains actually put the club before themselves and step down voluntarily to concentrate on actually playing well after coming back from an ACL. But the fact that Choco didn't automatically reinstate Primus, but instead put it to a player vote, tells you that he was conflicted about it. And didn't the results just go our way in 2005.

Quote one poster that has said exactly that. I certainly have never read it.

Ok, I'll rephrase. Anyone who thinks that Hinkley would have served up the same garbage given the same tools that Primus had to work with is seriously deluded.