Post-Match Review Thread

[mdc]

Try to keep your thoughts/reviews/analyses in here rather than having 20 separate threads.

Here's what I've personally learnt over the finals series:
- Travis Cloke needs to be reconstructed from scratch. His mentality, his kicking, his decision-making. I'm not sure how that can be best achieved. Perhaps play him out of position all pre-season, so that when he comes back to CHF he's fresh? Atm he's a man at sea.
- Macaffer is a genuine A-grade prospect.
- Sharrod Wellingham has the competitiveness of a slug.
- Our backline will be a strength for years to come.
- Leon Davis can't play even with minor niggles, especially in high pressure games.
- Pendlebury is our best player (well, not learnt, but re-inforced).
- Didak can be shut down way too easily in the middle. At HFF, he's unstoppable, and his aversion to body-contact isn't nearly as costly.
- Leigh Brown proved us all wrong. Can hold his head high, at least he tried.
- We need to develop a tagger ASAP.
- Dale Thomas showed a lot of heart in the last 2 finals.

More to come.

 

[smiddaz123]

I'll kick it off by saying that Cloke's game was possibly the weakest game from a Pies player I've seen for a while.....I would not let him play Round 1 next year personally.

I'll post some proper thoughts/analysis later on, after the Premier League has calmed me down.

 

[Drizt]

Cloke is a worry. Don't know where he fits in the team anymore (with regards to us progressing further as a team).

Davis is allergic to finals

We missed Pendles as expected. Our best and most important player.

Didak could have done more, but was not disgraced. Hoping for more from him next year.

Wellingham won't be in our best 22 in 12 months time.

Beams and Sidebottom are little gems, just give them 2 seasons to develop. Coincidence thats when Buckley chose to take the rains ?

Toovey has proven me wrong. He is in our best 22.

Maxwell does his best, and generally delivers. Ok game by him.

Collingwood needs a proper tall forward option or two. Hawthorn and St Kilda have shown that they are required. Unfortunately Dawes is not going to make it. I had high hopes for the lad, but after watching the VFL where he should be tearing it up... just doesnt have the impact that is required.

Dale Thomas is progressing well. he is not the super star everyone wants him to be but he is becoming a much more consistent well rounded player. Import for us going forward..

Heath Shaw, good game, but needs to stop kicking into the man on the mark, does it far to often.

Collingwood need to recruit at least 1 tall strong marking, goal kicking (I know this is a foreign concept to Collingwood) forward. And a big bodied tall ruckman that does not look anorexic.

Reid needs to play every game next year from CHB. The kid has great promise as long as he is not kicking for goal

McCaffer has shown enough to suggest he could be part of our best 22. Big bodied, hard trying honest player.

Harry O, did his job, hard working player. has grown on me.

Goldsack has good patchs and horrible patches. Hope he comes on.

Swan tries hard, but had zero help tonight. Can't do it by himself.

Disappointing effort really. Understatement I know.

Hopefully McCarthy gets a full preseason and cracks a spot in our midfield as an in and under type.

 

[jerry springer]

be back in a week

shattered with that performance(or lack of)

 

[Ron]

Good players tonight - none

Ok players - Brown, Shaw, Harry O, Goldsack, possibly Toovey.

Bad players - the rest, except Cloke and Davis who were utter shit.

We were out bodied in the guts, the young kids couldn't match it against the best midfield in the league, not their fault they are only young, but thats where we lost it tonight.

 

[Macca42]

Good players tonight - none

Ok players - Brown, Shaw, Harry O, Goldsack, possibly Toovey.

Bad players - the rest, except Cloke and Davis who were utter shit.

We were out bodied in the guts, the young kids couldn't match it against the best midfield in the league, not their fault they are only young, but thats where we lost it tonight.

Cloke has been utter shit for 97 out of the 100 games he has played , when will the club realise that he is NOT a SUPERSTAR and he NEVER
will be ...
He can't kick

He can't mark

He can't play football ...

 

[Zahki]

We are far too lenient with players who are not playing up to standard. Medhurst was out of form for half the season, he only got dropped this week. Davis went missing as soon as the finals started and never even looked like coming back to his best.

How we go from equal premiership favorites and a fantastic mid season performance to the display shown tonight boggles the mind.

If there is a bright spot on our future it is Buckley. The man is a perfectionist, demands the best from himself and everyone around him. You can be absolutely sure that when he comes in players will either shape up or ship out.

 

[twaters]

^ Cloke not a worry if we give him forward support.

Davis prob injured (good stats, minimum impact), Didak (major disappointment - he tuned it over so often that CFC may want to consider consulting the stewards), but both are dazzling small forwards with only sidelines as brief shimmer and shake midfielders.

We need another strongbodied midfielder to go with Swan, Pendles, Obewan - got a draft first rounder worth trading? - eg for Kerr, Burgoyne, or in the draft for a stronger bodied mid like MSewell. Obewan may well be retiring from knee/achilles this year, hopefully not, but either way we will need another strong body there in the mid if we are not to go backwards.

Cometh the finals, cometh not Fraser. Is this karma for us trying to trade him for Judd etc etc (if we did), or just belting him out one alone in home-away games. We cannot go forward like this. Seaby, Jolly or ???

Maxwell is not a centre half back eg playing on Mooney, nor is Presti spotting up well on the top teams' key forwards coming into finals. Not sure that Shaw is the best kick-in option or quarterback for us. The gaffes are just about negating the positives? The Caffa may be worth trying in the pre-season, and stick the hard-bodied Shaw into the mid rotations?

Beams, Sidey, and Caf - all in their first year taking on the hard bodies of the Cats' midfield - I'm sure we didn't think so.

O'Brien was fantastic.

 

[Heater39]

I thought Thomas worked his arse off again. Was one of our best players this finals series. Harry O, Heater also had good finals series and to a lesser extent Maxwell (poor tonight though imo) Goldsack and Toovey.
Our worst defender was Presti, unfortunately he had a stinker finals series. All in all, our backline has been good and is looking good for the future.

The most disappointing aspect of the finals was a lot of our senior players didn't stand up when required. e.g. Davis, Didak, Lockyer, O'Bree even Swan. Tough ask for the likes of Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham up against Ablett, Bartel, Ling etc.

Our forward line is struggling big time. Cloke had a very average year. Anthony's dropped off the last month but for his first full year of AFL, he's done well imo. Having Medhurst out of form hurts, as he's an excellent 3rd tall, another marking target when Cloke and Anthony are struggling. We can't buy ourselves a contested mark inside 50 atm.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Half time came at the wrong time didnt it.

Our light bodies also told and it was always where we were going to lose the game.

Fwds didnt do well but gee whiz the ball rarely came out of the centre and when the mids did get on top the fwds did well.

We really missed Pendles and Fraser but Beams should not have played. Clarke would have run harder than that.

 

[Yam yam]

We need either someone who can take a contested mark or to play a more direct style to our forwards.

The amount of time it took for us to get from defensive 50 to offensive allowed the Geelong players to get back to nullify leads, dulling our whole forward structure.

Either recruit someone who can fit into our quick forward structure as well as be good in the contested mark or play a more direct style down there, otherwise we look impotent.

 

[twaters]

Hear ya. Forgot Thomas. Good vibrations there, but stuff all for him to kick up to up front. Cloke is down the wing and probably gave the ball to Thomas in the first place; Anthony has three Cats defenders around him - because we have presented no other tall marking options- and Medhurst, if in, is the size of a peewee for Cats or Saints - he is a very small player - not a third tall - and this is stuffing up the CFC forward line. We need either Dawes or Cloke to present in the square, for Big Jack Anthony is really a third tall forward or back. He might make Medhurst redundant, if Dick/Bennell take the other small forward pocket.

Lots ahead. I have no idea how we got to fourth, so congrats to everyone.

 

[PieBeast]

I hope MM moves Cloke to CHB next year , N. Brown will do better up forward IMO. Wellingham should be used as the trade bait . O'Brien , Shaw , Toovey, L.Brown , Thomas and Sidebottom can hold their heads high .

 

[the mighty T]

I hope MM moves Cloke to CHB next year , N. Brown will do better up forward IMO. Wellingham should be used as the trade bait . O'Brien , Shaw , Toovey, L.Brown , Thomas and Sidebottom can hold their heads high .

i'd probs add macaffer to that list...loved that mark and goal...highlight of the night for me

 

[DoubleO7]

Could somebody please explain to me why Brent Macaffer only had 60% game time? Did he sustain an injury, or was his form so bad he was dragged from the field? Sorry to ask, but I only watched the first one and a half quarters of the match.

 

[skeetz]

I have many emotions and thoughts rampaging through my head right now. I am devestated at finishing off a really good year like that. Here are my thoughts, post game and post season

If someone can show me footage of Heater doing a great kick-in, I will eat my hat. He does not read his teammates well, and cannot 'measure' a kick (I mean popping it just in front of a player to our advantage).
He certainly has a place in our side, but it is NOT taking the kick-ins. We need someone with great skills: the ability to pinpoint a pass in traffic or to put the ball to our advantage. Too many time he just plays on and bombs it, plays on and gives a teammate a hospital handpass or plays on and gets his kick smothered. So frustrating.

What I have learnt in this last month is that we lack leadership. I think Pendle's leadership is underrated, and Josh really needs to get a bit of mongrel and authority about him. This is not a slight on Maxwell, I think he is doing a more than serviceable job, but FFS we have a 22 year old Copeland trophy winning CHF who has just played his 100th game. HE is the kind of player I am talking about. He is not leading by example.
The lack of effort from this guy is astounding. I can forgive him for being a shit set-shot, he obviously practises but is apparently just crap at it. I cannot forgive the lack of effort. That is a choice. YOU DON'T NEED TO 'PRACTICE' GIVING 100% ON GAMEDAY.
Guys like Leon. Now I know he isn't a natural leader, but it is just unforgivable when a senior player puts in such a pathetic effort.
I really hope that Buckley takes less shit than Malthouse is taking from these guys.

I am also pretty dirty about the timing of dropping Medhurst. He has been poor for a while now, and really did need to be either rested or dropped at least a month ago. Going into a prelim with 2 of our best 22 already on the sidelines through injury is NOT the time to drop a player who has that level of ability. With players such as the Caff, Wellingham, Beams etc, there is no chance that they will be gamebreakers or turn the match on it's head. With Medhurst, there was always that chance, no matter how slim it may have been considering his recent form. He was AA last year FFS.

Not 6 months ago people were saying we have the best brigade of small forwards in the league. Malthouse, can your PLEASE play players in an actual position occasionally??? **** this mentality that every small forward is just a midfielder in disguise.

One of Toovey's best games was when he played on Ablett a few matches ago. What happened to that plan? To me it seemed like MM played Johnson on Ablett so Benny could exploit Ablett's lack of defense. It worked to an extent, Johnson got a fair bit of the ball, but Ablett had more disposals in the first quater than 11 of our players had for the entire night, and Johnson did no damage whatsoever when he did get the ball.
Plan fail.

With all the talk this week about not taking injured players into a match, why the hell did we not take more advantage of the fact that Geelong played a 30% fit Steve Johnson? Harry did a good job on him, but meanwhile Chapman kicked 5 goals. Harry was wasted on Stevie J, infact I swear that Stevie was purposly hiding in the pocket half the time just to keep Harry out of the match.

Harry O'Brien might just about be my favourite player. I read in another thread tonight that some people are saying a lot of Travis Cloke's problems stem from him having a weak mindset, that he is not mentally strong. When you look at a player like Harry, one of his main assets is his mindset. He oozes with confidence and strength. He sets himself a task and then throws everything he has at it. He doesn't drop his head, he never falls apart. He gets beaten on occasion, but even when he's being beaten he always holds himself together and keeps competing until the final siren. Get this kid into the leadership group ASAP please, and play him on opponents or in a position where he can get a lot of the ball.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Reasons we lost were pretty obvious - they are just physically bigger and have more A graders. We are a few years behind them.

Johnson - got a bit of it but butchered the footy. He really needs to be looked at. I would rather a marty clarke in the side the

OBree - probably our best player but watching him at the centre bounces he was just happy to be on his own. I am not sure we should go fwd with him. They need to give someone else a go.

Wellingham - he really struggles in big games. He was not good last night. I am not sure weight is the issue with this bloke. I love him when he is form but the gap between best and worst is pretty big at times.

Sidebottom - outstanding. Real player of the future.

Thomas - I think he took some steps fwd in the finals series. Needs a massive summer. Move into the mids might not be a bad idea either. Has a bit of class in there.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Thomas - I think he took some steps fwd in the finals series. Needs a massive summer. Move into the mids might not be a bad idea either. Has a bit of class in there.

Had a premonition yesterday for him to be the Norm Smith medalist. I must be thinking a couple of years in advance

Interesting that a number of posters are calling for Lockyer, Johnson, Fraser, etc. to retire. Have a look at our massive 6 goals and see who actually kicked them. Our "senior seniors" still manage to play out entire matches. It seems like the younger leadership group still need some better coaching.

It hurts me to say but I think Presti's just too slow now to be effective as a FB. He's outpaced by the players with big tanks and there's few if any of the wrestling gorillas in the goalsquare any more.

 

[popathon]

Our inside 50 delivery is either a long bomb or a short pass right on the boundary. While I'm not too impressed with our fwd line you have to give them some slack given the delivery they get. I would love to get a kornes or a crowley to play some proper negating football. Our midfield really looks unimpressive without pendles, but the last 2 games has shown that Thomas has some really good ball winning abilty in the middle.

 

[Bay Pie]

I thought Thomas worked his arse off again. Was one of our best players this finals series. Harry O, Heater also had good finals series and to a lesser extent Maxwell (poor tonight though imo) Goldsack and Toovey.
Our worst defender was Presti, unfortunately he had a stinker finals series. All in all, our backline has been good and is looking good for the future.

The most disappointing aspect of the finals was a lot of our senior players didn't stand up when required. e.g. Davis, Didak, Lockyer, O'Bree even Swan. Tough ask for the likes of Beams, Sidebottom and Wellingham up against Ablett, Bartel, Ling etc.

Our forward line is struggling big time. Cloke had a very average year. Anthony's dropped off the last month but for his first full year of AFL, he's done well imo. Having Medhurst out of form hurts, as he's an excellent 3rd tall, another marking target when Cloke and Anthony are struggling. We can't buy ourselves a contested mark inside 50 atm.

Agree with the bolded bit. I really thought Daisy gave us some run and dare in all 3 finals when many were stationary.

Outside of the 1st half against St.Kilda, I thought Didak was OK for the final series. Swanny was down but losing Pendles meant more attention on our other clearance man.

O'Bree was one of our better players against Geelong. Medders poor form really hurt Travis & JA has it allowed the Ctas defenders to play a bit looser and zone off and then rebound.

 

[swiftdog]

I was getting sick in the first quarter of watching all of Geelong's players around the ball. I looked up to the stats at qtr time and Geelong had about 10-15 more uncontested marks. More numbers around the ball and many more uncontested marks = Geelong working harder. This theme followed through for more or less the entire match and is the reason Geelong won.

 

[Kirby]

I'm not saying that any of these players should be delisted but I believe that when the following players can no longer get a game, due to better players coming through, then we will have a team capable of giving it a real shake.

Those players are:

Johnson
O'Bree
Lockyer
Leigh Brown

They are at best good ordinary players who would not get a game at either Geelong or StKilda (or Adelaide or the Bulldogs for that matter). When our youngsters are good enough to push them out we will be a force.

We really need to get some weight on a few of our lads this summer. We look really light and skinny in comparison to most other teams.

I'm quite positive about our future and we were simply outplayed by a much better and far more experienced opponent. When it got to the point where we could no longer win we got an absolute flogging but that is not unusual in cut throat finals.

 

[The Norm]

- I don't think Heater is to blame for a lot of the mistakes we make out of kick-outs. We stagnate badly sometimes. It's hard to deliver a pass to somebody if you've just got a few guys standing around on either flank calling for the ball. The give-and-go he so often uses with the guy standing 10m in front of the goalsquare works if somebody is actually leading down the wing towards CHB, but if they're not he's bound to turn it over. He need more plays coming out of kick-outs.

- Brad Dick can still influence a game with less than 10 touches. JA can't unless at least a couple of these are shots on goal. JA is no good outside the 50m arc. We need to get him the ball inside it.

- Agree about Leon unable to play with even a slight injury. I really hope he was actually carrying something.

- We have to create more space for Travis to lead into along the wings. He will never be a reliable goalkicker, plus I think he's best used up the ground. He could even play loose across half-back with occasional stints in the ruck (not just in our few 50). I'd love it if he could play a Drew Petrie-like role. Petrie is a better contested mark but Cloke is better on the lead. Petrie's only 1cm taller.

- Toovey to become our midfield tagger, Goldsack to take his place in the backline.

- A lot of people have called it, but Wellingham is a genuine frontrunner.

- Our forward line hasn't worked well for the past 2 months but we were still able to win games. Leigh Brown was by far our most dangerous forward last night, and that's saying something.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Toovey probably does not have the foot skills to play midfield, though at present, he is probably the closest to a tagger that we have. Hopefully one of the young recruits will develop into this role. He also does not generate many possessions for himself.

Goldsack should move up onto a wing. Clarke has to come back into the side to replace Wellingham, who everyone seems to agree has exposed some serious flaws in his game during the finals series. Others will surpass him next year and he will go the way of Cox, Stanley and Cook.

Davis should be swapped/traded for something a bit more resilient if less skilled - but only if the right type of player is available. Fraser's non appearance in yet another final's series has highlighted the fragility of our ruck stocks. We are a couple of years away from significantly improving the rucks from within the club.

Cloke has gone backwards - didn't he quite easily beat Taylor a few years ago? Anthony should never again be played as the lone tall forward. A third tall needs to come into the mix, whether this is Dawes or N Brown, Reid. Not having a third tall forward has been a problem recognised by many supporters but not the selection committee. Cloke played his best games when Dawes was present.

O'Bree may have been our best player in the prelim, but this may have been significantly due to Geelong players leaving him alone, wanting him to be the Collingwood player to get the ball. Our midfield appears to be at least a year away from fulfilling its potential on the strength of their performance against Geelong.

We need someone in the midfield who can impose themselves physically on a contest. O'Brien has been suggested as a possible mid-fielder. A beefed-up McCarthy with a full pre-season would add some bite in the packs, as well as precise disposal. We certainly need physical types with good skills. Davis, Didak, Thomas, Wellingham and Dick are no match for the likes of Bartel, Ling, Corey etc.

We have a long way to go to match it with the Saints and Cats. We didn't think we did but we know now that our team has neither the ability or strength to beat these teams.

 

[didaka]

At least we got to see the Rocketeer.