Opinion Posts That Don't Deserve a Thread (Random Opinion or Questions)

[Dubai Quacker]

I don't know how the PSA works so I can't really comment on it. I do know how the APS works and it's diabolical.

But I wasn't saying the APS doesn't produce a lot of very good footballers. Just that it would be hard for a recruiter to sit down and ascertain whether the draft prospect is where they are because of things like hard work, professionalism etc., or if they've just had opportunities handed to them because of their privilege. That's also not to say that those privileged players don't have the required hard work, professionalism etc., but you see how muddled it is? Recruiters don't want muddled. They want as much confidence and certainty in the player they're dealing with as they can possibly have.

I'd use McInerney as a good example. Marcellin College is hardly the projects, but it also runs like a school football program should be run. McInerney wasn't good enough for his school side initially, so wasn't picked. He worked his way in, then wasn't considered good enough for the Northern Knights, then worked his way in. So if you're Kinnear Beatson and you're meeting McInerney for an interview, you know that when he's telling you he's a hard worker, dedicated etc., that it's genuine, and not just fodder being sold to you, because you can trace it back through his footballing journey.

PSA is a group of 7 schools (non-government) that essentially runs its own comp among themselves in Perth. Its been that way in Perth for over a century.

And whilst there's certainly an element of elitist w**kerism that goes on within those schools and their parents (I can say this, because I've had kids at the PSA schools), they do run an extremely professional sports program, with high-calibre coaches. They drill discipline into the kids - and the kids that want to play elite sport tend to thrive in that environment. Certainly the Warners have, ditto Gus and presumably Logan too.

If you don't measure up to the work ethic and professionalism standards, you don't play in the school A's. Full stop, regardless of talent.

So I wouldn't say the recruiters face "muddled" when dealing with the PSA - they get the inside word from professional coaches who've worked with the kids for 6 years re: who has both the talent and attitude to succeed.

Having said that, I've no idea how it works in Vic.

 

[caesar88]

PSA is a group of 7 schools (non-government) that essentially runs its own comp among themselves in Perth. Its been that way in Perth for over a century.

And whilst there's certainly an element of elitist w**kerism that goes on within those schools and their parents (I can say this, because I've had kids at the PSA schools), they do run an extremely professional sports program, with high-calibre coaches. They drill discipline into the kids - and the kids that want to play elite sport tend to thrive in that environment. Certainly the Warners have, ditto Gus and presumably Logan too.

If you don't measure up to the work ethic and professionalism standards, you don't play in the school A's. Full stop, regardless of talent.

So I wouldn't say the recruiters face "muddled" when dealing with the PSA - they get the inside word from professional coaches who've worked with the kids for 6 years re: who has both the talent and attitude to succeed.

Having said that, I've no idea how it works in Vic.

Interesting.

Sounds like it is run a whole lot better than the cesspool that is the APS in Victoria. I won't lay claim to being on the ground doing any of this investigating myself. As you'd know I'm over here in Perth. However two of my best mates have been over in Melbourne doing work in junior comps and they've told me many grimy stories.

Perhaps the reason we've been more comfortable not only drafting kids from the PSA pathway, but using high draft picks on said kids.

 

[robbieando]

I wish I'd have done those figures while I had them all up in front of me, as that would be interesting to see. If no one else decides to do it I will geek out later today and do them.

Re steering clear of Vic Metro, I've always believed that the pathway we actually steer clear of is the APS. The talent pool is so dilluted with corruption, nepotism & privilege that I'd imagine Beatson & co would look at it and find it hard to know who's there because they really have what it takes and who's there simply because of their parents' chequebook.

I don't think Beatson steers clear of any pathway, he'll pick where the talent is. Of the 8 Vic Metro players you named, Rankin and Rowbottom are from the APS pathway and there is a third APS player in Tom McCartin because he falls under Vic Country. McInerney, Stoddart and Florent all came from the AGS pathway and the other three Vic Metro players came from Public Schools. This shows that equal weight has been given to the available talent in Vic Metro.

Taking the draft history back to when Beatson joined. The previous 7 drafts to the ones you listed he drafted 6 players from Vic Metro (Matthew Dick, Alex Brown, Alex Johnson, Dan Hannebury, Patrick Vespermi and Brett Meredith) 2 went to APS schools (Johnson and Hannebury), 1 ACC (Vespermi) and 3 public schools again showing an equal weight to the available talent.

Tom Mitchell who was drafted out of WA, started High School in Victoria at Carey Grammar which is an APS school.

There have been 59 National Draft picks under Beatson, which he has used 14 picks or 23.72% of selections on Vic Metro players. 6 picks or 10.16% of selections have been used on APS players.

So considering two of the APS players were from outside Vic Metro when selected he has selected 4 APS players out of the 14 Vic Metro players he has selected or a rate of 28.57% of the available Vic Metro selections. The AGS is 21.42, the ACC is 7.14% and the Public Schools as a pool are at 42.86%.

There is no evidence he avoids the APS over any other pathway available.

 

[caesar88]

I don't think Beatson steers clear of any pathway, he'll pick where the talent is. Of the 8 Vic Metro players you named, Rankin and Rowbottom are from the APS pathway and there is a third APS player in Tom McCartin because he falls under Vic Country. McInerney, Stoddart and Florent all came from the AGS pathway and the other three Vic Metro players came from Public Schools. This shows that equal weight has been given to the available talent in Vic Metro.

Taking the draft history back to when Beatson joined. The previous 7 drafts to the ones you listed he drafted 6 players from Vic Metro (Matthew Dick, Alex Brown, Alex Johnson, Dan Hannebury, Patrick Vespermi and Brett Meredith) 2 went to APS schools (Johnson and Hannebury), 1 AGS (Vespermi) and 3 public schools again showing an equal weight to the available talent.

Tom Mitchell who was drafted out of WA, started High School in Victoria at Carey Grammar which is an APS school.

McCartin went to St. Josephs, which is not part of the APS program. Being in Vic Metro/Country doesn't necessarily qualify you for the perks that come from being part of the APS program. APS & the U18s are administered by different bodies.

Even with those additional players you've named, that's five in 14 years, from the pathway that usually produces one of the largest cohorts in each and every draft. Pure coincidence or indicative of something else, only Beatson & co can know. It's just my belief based on what I've heard about it, the types of players we typically draft, and ultimately our low numbers from that pathway.

Perhaps "steer clear of" was poor phrasing though. I'm sure we watch, interview and consider as many players from the APS pathway as any other, but I wouldn't be surprised if we do it with more cynicism and a tougher approach than we do others.

 

[robbieando]

McCartin went to St. Josephs, which is not part of the APS program. Being in Vic Metro/Country doesn't necessarily qualify you for the perks that come from being part of the APS program. APS & the U18s are administered by different bodies.

Even with those additional players you've named, that's five in 14 years, from the pathway that usually produces one of the largest cohorts in each and every draft. Pure coincidence or indicative of something else, only Beatson & co can know. It's just my belief based on what I've heard about it, the types of players we typically draft, and ultimately our low numbers from that pathway.

Perhaps "steer clear of" was poor phrasing though. I'm sure we watch, interview and consider as many players from the APS pathway as any other, but I wouldn't be surprised if we do it with more cynicism and a tougher approach than we do others.

My mistake on Tom, always thought he was Geelong Grammar student.

I'm fully aware of how the school system works here considering I went to an ACC school myself and went to school with four now former players (two who won premierships) from my year level alone.

The big issue with the APS is they offer the best players at Public Schools scholarships for their senior years which inflates their numbers come the draft. This also goes on within some of the AGS and ACC schools but not at the level it does for the APS as a whole. Generally the top end of the APS (St Kevin's and Xavier) and the AGS (Assumption, Marcellin and PEGS) are competitive against each other.

For this reason they tend to end up with the best players in Vic Metro who go early in the draft well before we normally enter so our access is always going to limited. Usually when we draft early we either select an academy player or we pick a Logan McDonald based on his positional fit who is from outside Melbourne anyway. Those that become available to us have made it due to hard work, but you could say that of any player regardless of the school they went to.

 

[Ticky009]

Pretty Good Interview. Maher knows his place on the Front Bar behind Pang & Molloy and is acceptable. He is nauseating to the point of dry reaching in tandem with Andrew Gaze on SEN. Cringeworthy dribble 99% of the time and that is hard to say as Gaze is a great fella. Paired with somebody else and Gaze may be different. That Mills Interview was the exception to the rule from the usual garbage they dish up.

Really? I hate Gaze with a passion, cannot watch or listen to much of him.

 

[SM]

Really? I hate Gaze with a passion, cannot watch or listen to much of him.

Why?

 

[Ticky009]

Why?

Wrong thread mate. I'll move it across to the Opinons to continue when I have time.

 

[SM]

Wrong thread mate. I'll move it across to the Opinons to continue when I have time.

Me replying to your post was the wrong thread?

 

[Ticky009]

Me replying to your post was the wrong thread?

Me responding and a convo staring on Gaze would have put it into the wrong thread so yes. It likely to kick off a conversation that takes it way outside the Swans Media criteria

 

[SM]

Me responding and a convo staring on Gaze would have put it into the wrong thread so yes.

Perhaps your observation on Gaze should have been made in here in that case.

 

[Millky95]

Really? I hate Gaze with a passion, cannot watch or listen to much of him.

Yeah never really enjoyed him when I've seen him in programs. Maybe he is better when talking basketball? Like how Warne was a crap commentator until he spoke about spin bowling then he was fantastic

 

[Wolfgang West]

Really? I hate Gaze with a passion, cannot watch or listen to much of him.

I think I just see him as a good guy who was an amazing competitor for his country in Basketball. Like I said though when paired with Maher on afternoon Radio can't stand him.

 

[caesar88]

Been listening to a lot of the radio interviews with various Swans personnel lately, and they're interesting, but I'm still waiting for the day when one of the interviewers just goes, "Hey John, tell us about Jake Lloyd

44

Jake Lloyd

Age

32

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

403.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

9.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

403.9

5star

D

23.2

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

357.4

5star

..."

Like just a question about a really random Swans player who deserves some attention. I actually feel like the interviewee would be more excited to answer a question like that, than churn out the same generic stuff about the same half a dozen players every interview.

Will never happen but one can hope.

 

[caesar88]

We were the 6th best team for intercept possessions last year but 2nd worst for intercept marks.

2nd last for clearance differential.

2nd last for hitouts to advantage differential.

2nd for tackles and pressure acts.

For anyone who cares

 

[Ticky009]

We were the 6th best team for intercept possessions last year but 2nd worst for intercept marks.

2nd last for clearance differential.

2nd last for hitouts to advantage differential.

2nd for tackles and pressure acts.

For anyone who cares

Might be a fun exercise to track them as we roll through the year at 6 game intervals?

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Been listening to a lot of the radio interviews with various Swans personnel lately, and they're interesting, but I'm still waiting for the day when one of the interviewers just goes, "Hey John, tell us about Jake Lloyd..."

Like just a question about a really random Swans player who deserves some attention. I actually feel like the interviewee would be more excited to answer a question like that, than churn out the same generic stuff about the same half a dozen players every interview.

Will never happen but one can hope.

About as much chance as an ump retrospectively noticing Nick Smith!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

My mistake on Tom, always thought he was Geelong Grammar student.

I'm fully aware of how the school system works here considering I went to an ACC school myself and went to school with four now former players (two who won premierships) from my year level alone.

The big issue with the APS is they offer the best players at Public Schools scholarships for their senior years which inflates their numbers come the draft. This also goes on within some of the AGS and ACC schools but not at the level it does for the APS as a whole. Generally the top end of the APS (St Kevin's and Xavier) and the AGS (Assumption, Marcellin and PEGS) are competitive against each other.

For this reason they tend to end up with the best players in Vic Metro who go early in the draft well before we normally enter so our access is always going to limited. Usually when we draft early we either select an academy player or we pick a Logan McDonald based on his positional fit who is from outside Melbourne anyway. Those that become available to us have made it due to hard work, but you could say that of any player regardless of the school they went to.

Admittedly it was a very long time ago but I went to an APS mob. Pretty atrocious place. Even in those days they were offering scholarships for young footy and cricket stars. I expect C88 is right about shenanigans being played to get kids scholarships.

Pretty Good Interview. Maher knows his place on the Front Bar behind Pang & Molloy and is acceptable. He is nauseating to the point of dry reaching in tandem with Andrew Gaze on SEN. Cringeworthy dribble 99% of the time and that is hard to say as Gaze is a great fella. Paired with somebody else and Gaze may be different. That Mills Interview was the exception to the rule from the usual garbage they dish up.

Maher talks too much but is no idiot. Gaze is wilfully ignorant about all sports, other than basketball. They are a poor combo, holding as much interest as elevator music.

Really? I hate Gaze with a passion, cannot watch or listen to much of him.

Gaze is also a blight on FoxFooty. Seems to think he is humorous. He is not, for me anyway. He also possesses a prickly and inflated ego. He gets irritated when challenged.

 

[Crust]

We were the 6th best team for intercept possessions last year but 2nd worst for intercept marks.

2nd last for clearance differential.

2nd last for hitouts to advantage differential.

2nd for tackles and pressure acts.

For anyone who cares

Re intercept marks I wonder about before and after Paddy stopped playing.

 

[caesar88]

Might be a fun exercise to track them as we roll through the year at 6 game intervals?

Do I want to keep track of stats.. hmm let me think...

 

[caesar88]

Re intercept marks I wonder about before and after Paddy stopped playing.

Oh I'm sure we were much better when Paddy was playing. But he did only play 3 full games last year, and combined with injuries to his brother & Rampe, it was really a whole season of not having much by way of intercept marking power. Blakey something of a lone hand in that regard for much of the year.

 

[Ticky009]

Do I want to keep track of stats.. hmm let me think...

Does the board want a page for Stats and nothing but the Stats?

 

[caesar88]

Does the board want a page for Stats and nothing but the Stats?

 

[Ticky009]

You'd love it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Does the board want a page for Stats and nothing but the Stats?

But folks will want to interpret those stats and probably wish to debate the importance of one data set over another.