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Potential compensation for Ablett

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Re: Potential Compensation.

The Golden Greek said on 774 today that the club had met with Adrian Anderson and had put forward a proposal for consideration by the AFL that the compensation for players heading to the new franchises should be commensurate with the players real worth. Which is currently not the case. The G.G said the AFL were presently considering our proposal. Interesting!
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

Ammo Man said:
The Golden Greek said on 774 today that the club had met with Adrian Anderson and had put forward a proposal for consideration by the AFL that the compensation for players heading to the new franchises should be commensurate with the players real worth. Which is currently not the case. The G.G said the AFL were presently considering our proposal. Interesting!
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So the clubs so sure Ablett is leaving that theyre talking about compensation with the league?
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

Greg Brady said:
So the clubs so sure Ablett is leaving that theyre talking about compensation with the league?
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The way the Demetriou put it was that our club was concerned that an anomaly existed in the present compensation set-up and wanted it looked at. He was at great pains to say he didn't know whether Junior would go or stay.
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

How can the AFL not have the system sorted.
The clubs can not act in an environment there they are uncertain

The season has already started, contracts are being signed and hands are being shaken. WHat a joke

If Gary stays that is great as long as he is payed what he is worth and not over the odds.
If he leaves good luck to him and thanks. 2 Early first round picks would be the minimum expected in return
 

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Re: Potential Compensation.

Don't put it all on the AFL, the club presidents all agreed to the rort. Getting pick 26 should Junior go is a joke.

Excuse the diversion but another interesting comment was made by Mark McClure after the Demetriou interview in which he suggested the problems that beset the blues followed Elliot organising for Koutoufides to be given a huge contract - considerably bigger than everyone else. If was followed by other key players wanting a bigger part of the cake too. The rest is history.

BTW. I believe the Hun are doing a piece on Demetriou's comment. Can't find it online at the moment.
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

Offsider said:
The compensatory pick after the first round pick that Geelong hypothetically get after Ablett could not be used until 2012, after the new teams get their concessions, so you never could get pick 26, pick 18 would be the worst possible.
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As the rules stand I'm not sure one could say 18 is the worst one could get.

Like the whole process there are so many variables , how many clubs will lose players to the GC , when they nominate that they will use these picks and how many clubs nominate in the same year, if one cannot use the 1st round picks till 2012 this then coincides with Free Agency so what picks will clubs get for these players. Then how does the GWS picks come into this as in how many clubs lose players to them and get picks for these players..... on and on it goes.

I'd imagine that most clubs would prefer to use their picks in a draft thought of as a deep quality draft like 01 or 06 , so that would mean more clubs tending to nominate the same year

One of the papers this morning raised the possibility of tanking being a huge issue. Imagine a club like Geelong looses two quality players ( 1 to each club) and gets 2 1st round picks A club has to nominate preseason if they will use their picks at seasons end so in would be in thats clubs interest to have a poor year eg. finish on the bottom then those picks then become p2 and p3.

Listening to ADom. yesterday Id say that the door is not closed on altering the formula , perhaps the AFL didn't estimate that a club would target a player like Ablett with so much $$ that they perhaps will only grab 2 -4 uncontracted players. I think Geelong wanting to know as early as possible is probably about giving them time to petition the AFL on the rules. I think they have a fair case when comparing what WC got for Judd.
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

As long as one of those picks is pick 1 and the second is somewhere in the vacinity of 2-3, fair enough. Otherwise get stuffed Gold Coast
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

At least it's comforting to know that [strike]when[/strike] if Gaz packs his sunscreen and swim wear and heads north for [strike]$1.5m[/strike] [strike]$1.6m[/strike] [strike]$1.7m[/strike] [strike]$1.8m[/strike] [strike]$1.9m[/strike] $1..........we'll get half decent compo. Presuming Caro is on the ball of course.
 

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Re: Potential Compensation.

Ammo Man said:
At least it's comforting to know that [strike]when[/strike] if Gaz packs his sunscreen and swim wear and heads north for [strike]$1.5m[/strike] [strike]$1.6m[/strike] [strike]$1.7m[/strike] [strike]$1.8m[/strike] [strike]$1.9m[/strike] $1..........we'll get half decent compo. Presuming Caro is on the ball of course.
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Half Decent maybe but certainly its not clear thats it fair and reasonable.

Two first round picks sounds fine. The original formula probably sounded fine too until your see the details of it.

I think players of a certain standard like Ablett or for that matter , Judd or Brown or Riewoldt etc. that along with the AFL's compensation pick , the GC should give up one of their early picks. Why?
For starters any picks the AFL hand over will not be able to be taken till 2012 , meaning that any on-field benefit will be 3 years away min.

Next , getting two R1 picks is better than 1 but what is vital is where in the first round they are and the year they are taken. With 18 teams an R1 pick can be P17, P18 compare this two P1 and P2 and one can see the importance of getting at least on single figure R1 pick. As we have seen when we compare Tenace to a Bartel early picks to not guarantee a quality replacement. The year can have a huge effect on the worth of the picks given. This years draft is supposed to be of the 01 and 06 standard.

GC will have more youth than they will know what do to with the first couple of years. Getting a quality player like Ablett is crucial for the youth and to assist in their marketing. Surely giving up one of their picks is not too much to ask
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

I think everyone agrees Ablett is worth say, picks 1 and 7. I understand why you can't take those picks from GC because they need them to build a list. Therefore we can't have picks 1 and 7 in this year's draft. What I don't understand, is why you can't give Geelong picks 1 and 7 in the draft at the end of 2012, straight up (and do similarly for any other club that loses great players). This would provide more certainty, and take away the endless media talk about tanking that will keep happening if they give clubs 'picks in future drafts dependent upon their finishing position in that year'. Seems pretty simple to me. But then again, the AFL have a way of complicating the simplest things :p
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

any pick is not going to be equivalent to losing gary ablett because the player we get will have to spend atleast 5 or 6 years before becoming a quality player and by then youd think geelongs premiership window would be well and truly closed up will be the biggest disgrace for AFL if geelong get just a pick for the best player in the league
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

Pure_Ownage said:
I think everyone agrees Ablett is worth say, picks 1 and 7.
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Im not sure that we will get that sort of clear cut agreement, Pure.

There is just too much self-interest to get that sort of clear cut agreement. Everyone realises that his worth as a footballer but to agree what we should get for him is not as clear.

We have the group that thinks we got for basically nothing so should get nothing? ( This is crap of course , we paid what the AFL had structured and determined Father/Sons were worth. In a way I wish the current system was in back then , it would showed clearly what the other clubs though he as worth , about a R2 or R3 pick i'd say which is just what we paid)

Then there is the train of thought that any compensation should be related to the impact/damage the loss causes. So If Geelong still play well without him , keep up and about the mark for the next couple of years then we don't need or deserve a pick as early 1 or 7. ( This is crap too , it not only does it under pay , it take little account of the loss of a champion player who is the face of the club purely because we have developed other players on our list.

Then of course every club that finishes down near the bottom , like Rich for instance, would just love the idea of their original position being pushed back ,later and later with special picks from the AFL. Imagine Geelong ,Bulldogs, Hawthorn , Collingwood and StKilda all getting picks before a side that hardly won a game all year. P5 or P6 for finishing on the bottom , I can see that going down like a lead balloon.Its one reason why I like the idea of GC giving up their picks ,these picks are in the system already the don't push back clubs any further by them giving up to the donor.
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

I think the best thing in the end to do could be to get the GWS team involved. I'm sure they would love Ablett just as much as the Gold Coast.

If Geelong, GWS and Ablett made some type of deal, where Geelong were happy to let Ablett walk to GWS as they are going to get their two first rounders but instead Ablett stayed an extra season at Geelong.

The pros for Ablett is that he gets to stay at Geelong an extra year when he team has its premiership window open (and he effectively signs an extra year at Geelong and then say 5 for GWS). The pros for Geelong are that Ablett stays an extra year while the window is open. The pros for GWS are that they land the best player in the competition rather than the GC.

Its not keeping Ablett but it could be the best thing to keep this side together - even if only for an extra year AND benefits Ablett and GWS. In this situation, Ablett could be signed in October for GWS in that "open period" with Geelong's consent and then its all over with none of the speculation thats going on now. The latter years of Ablett's contract won't necessarily effect Geelong as much as the early years as Geelong may have come down to earth by then.

Don't know if its a "good" deal but may be better than him just walking to the GC. It also means no one else can sign for the GWS side. Just trying to think outside the square.
 
Re: Potential Compensation.

Turbocat said:
Half Decent maybe but certainly its not clear thats it fair and reasonable.

Two first round picks sounds fine. The original formula probably sounded fine too until your see the details of it.

I think players of a certain standard like Ablett or for that matter , Judd or Brown or Riewoldt etc. that along with the AFL's compensation pick , the GC should give up one of their early picks. Why?
For starters any picks the AFL hand over will not be able to be taken till 2012 , meaning that any on-field benefit will be 3 years away min.

Next , getting two R1 picks is better than 1 but what is vital is where in the first round they are and the year they are taken. With 18 teams an R1 pick can be P17, P18 compare this two P1 and P2 and one can see the importance of getting at least on single figure R1 pick. As we have seen when we compare Tenace to a Bartel early picks to not guarantee a quality replacement. The year can have a huge effect on the worth of the picks given. This years draft is supposed to be of the 01 and 06 standard.

GC will have more youth than they will know what do to with the first couple of years. Getting a quality player like Ablett is crucial for the youth and to assist in their marketing. Surely giving up one of their picks is not too much to ask
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Agree with much of what you say Turbo. The reason I said 'half decent' is that it's not wholly fair and reasonable but it's better than the pathetically unreasonable proposition that went before it.

But who, in the end is to blame? It was the clubs who were conned into agreeing to the extravagances. No wonder Sheedy has a grin from ear-to-ear with the draft picks coming his way, a helpful crack at uncontracted players, plus all of western Sydney and the Northern Territory to chose from for a number of years.
 

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Re: Potential Compensation.

AngelEyes said:
I think the best thing in the end to do could be to get the GWS team involved. I'm sure they would love Ablett just as much as the Gold Coast.

If Geelong, GWS and Ablett made some type of deal, where Geelong were happy to let Ablett walk to GWS as they are going to get their two first rounders but instead Ablett stayed an extra season at Geelong.

The pros for Ablett is that he gets to stay at Geelong an extra year when he team has its premiership window open (and he effectively signs an extra year at Geelong and then say 5 for GWS). The pros for Geelong are that Ablett stays an extra year while the window is open. The pros for GWS are that they land the best player in the competition rather than the GC.

Its not keeping Ablett but it could be the best thing to keep this side together - even if only for an extra year AND benefits Ablett and GWS. In this situation, Ablett could be signed in October for GWS in that "open period" with Geelong's consent and then its all over with none of the speculation thats going on now. The latter years of Ablett's contract won't necessarily effect Geelong as much as the early years as Geelong may have come down to earth by then.

Don't know if its a "good" deal but may be better than him just walking to the GC. It also means no one else can sign for the GWS side. Just trying to think outside the square.
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In all seriousness, that'd be at least a little bearable! best plan i've seen so far pal
 
Re: Gary Ablett may be worth 2 draft picks

It's more concerning that the cats are working so hard to have Selwood listed as elite for the compensations !!
 
Re: Gary Ablett may be worth 2 draft picks

Listening to Cooky on SEN , it sounds like they would like a group of players to be nominated as "Elite" and therefore worth the type of compensation that has been paid before. He quote the Judd Burgoyne and Ottens deals as benchmarks for Elite Players.

IMO , the issue of Abletts worth is probably not disputed , he would be worth the max ( what ever that is) but what is a player like Selwood worth. Or for that matter Rioli or Kruser or Dangerfield , these guys are currently very good players possibly of the highest importance to their clubs because they are their future.

Perhaps a group of players from each club should be determined as Elite , a Group of Gold so to speak , and this group is will be worth the max comp. For a club like Geelong I'd hate to try to fit our best 5 into this Gold group but at least it would mean the club doesn't lose its very best players without something akin to fair remuneration.
 
Gee the Age are sharp.. Wasn't this last weeks news?

I was hoping to read something more detailed about what numbers these picks were being offered at. I think picks 5 and 15 is fair.
 
Re: Gary Ablett may be worth 2 draft picks

Turbocat said:
For a club like Geelong I'd hate to try to fit our best 5 into this Gold group but at least it would mean the club doesn't lose its very best players without something akin to fair remuneration.
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For sure, but you have to remember that they can only take guys out of contract, which eliminates a number of guys immediately.
 

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Potential compensation for Ablett

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