Premiership Clock

[Bulldog Joe]

Why not? Do you have a reason to feel that way?

Well you do have a consistent record of only seeing things from a very positive Collingwood perspective.

Firstly, I don't think Collingwood were very fortunate, because I tend to think it had more to do with recovery and preparation and fitness management that paid off. I also thought all year that Brad Dick was in Collingwood's best team, but he wasn't available for the finals.

Trust me Collingwood were very fortunate. I am not sure Brad Dick would have improved Collingwood. The only one I could see him replacing was Blair.

Fortunately though, Morris only missed a few matches and the Bulldogs only had one player missing from their best team in the Preliminary Final.

Now I know you no nothing ouside of Collingwood.
Which best side player do you consider the Bulldogs were without
Cooney- akin to Collingwood without Swan
Higgins at least the equal of a Sidebottom
plus seriously underdone players needing post season surgery in
Lake, Williams, Griffen, Hargrave, Morris and seriously curtailed seasons among those playing in Johnson, Ward and Minson.

I actually said that all clubs are equal regarding serious injury that can occur during a match, so why are you even mentioning it?I don't understand the reason you continue to mention Darren Jolly. He has played 136 consecutive matches, so it's not like he has a history of injury problems. Of course he is an important player to Collingwood, but the same applies for all clubs regarding their important players. Do you honestly believe that Collingwood is the only team in the AFL that should be concerned about the possibility of losing an important to serious injury? If you do, then I completely disagree.

No I don't believe Collingwood are the only side, but like every side a serious injury to a key player could derail any chance of a premiership.
I see Darren Jolly as maybe the key at Collingwood, because they have no cover for him.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Would hate to have injuries to Jolly, Cloke, Swan, Didal, Pendlebury for sure

But you'd probably feel the same about Lake, Cooney, Hudson, or Hall.

You know throw the injury thing at any time and it's going to screw them up a bit isn't it

I don't disagree at all, particularly Brian Lake who carried injury through the finals.

We were without Cooney anyway and Griffen played with injury.

The Dogs have better cover for Hudson than Collingwood have for Jolly.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Anyway, I'll do mine in 12 hour time. 24 hours doesn't make sense

12:00 collingwood-flag favorites
1:00 st kilda-missed chance
2:00 geelong-time over
5:00 brisbane-alot of work
6:00 essendon-need a midfield
7:00 west coast, gold coast-a while a way
8:00 richmond, adelaide, port adelaide-improving
9:00 melbourne, north melbourne-good finals chance
10:00 hawthorn, sydney, fremantle, carlton-not far off
11:00 footscray-last chance possibly

 

[Bardo State]

Anyway, I'll do mine in 12 hour time. 24 hours doesn't make sense

12:00 collingwood-flag favorites
1:00 st kilda-missed chance
2:00 geelong-time over
5:00 brisbane-alot of work
6:00 essendon-need a midfield
7:00 west coast, gold coast-a while a way
8:00 richmond, adelaide, port adelaide-improving
9:00 melbourne, north melbourne-good finals chance
10:00 hawthorn, sydney, fremantle, carlton-not far off
11:00 footscray-last chance possibly

Agree with all of this except I think that adelaide are ahead of Richmond and port.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Agree with all of this except I think that adelaide are ahead of Richmond and port.

yeah i was gonna put them higher, but they're a bit unknown. Might wait and see how they go this year

 

[Dazb86]

I think this year is our final shot at the premiership for a couple years.

Forget the fact we lost Johnson, Akermanis, Eagleton and Hahn because for the most part they were virtually useless anyway and our match committee were too soft on them to replace them with faster/more able kids.

I'm more worried about the 99 draft squad breaking down. Gilbee, Gia, Murphy, Hargrave etc. If a few of them break down we are done and dusted and our window is shut for a few years.

We've drafted well to add some pace into the team and the continual improvement of our kids should see us improve on last year if the oldies stay fit.

 

[Walshie]

So indeed the Hawks were the best team in 08 because they have the premiership cup to prove it.

Just because a team wins a premiership in a given year doesn't necessarily mean they were the best team for that said year. Have a look at the 1999 season. Despite North winning the premiership, I believe Essendon were the best team for the year. If they had defeated Carlton in the PF, I believe they would have defeated us pretty convincingly.

Sure, Hawthorn were the best team on that day and good on them, but in some cases IMO, winning one game does not mean that team is considered the best team for that year. In this case, I believe Geelong were the best team in 2008, despite their Grand Final loss.

In regards to the Hawks of '08 vs the Magpies of '10 dispute, we know that teams dissected the Hawks' game plan (post '08 GF), some successfully, and some not. Given that, the Magpies of '10 would have a clear advantage, as they'd have the knowledge of how to counter the 2008 Hawks' game plan. Although I think it's silly to decide whether a more contemporary side would beat a less contemporary side, given the above assumption, I think it's safe to say Collingwood would win. Though if both sides WERE to play an exhibition match with their premiership winning sides, I'd be interested to see how that Hawthorn side would combat Collingwood's game plan.

Nevertheless, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

[Damon_3388]

so you went completely off topic then?i think you confuse yourself.try reading the posts proceeding the one your responding to.then have a little think about it.then turn your computer off.

No, there's no confusion or going off-topic. I was simply responding to what you'd written. It's not a complicated issue - the Hawks are overrated, by their own supporters and some others too. Doesn't really matter who by. Truth is though, you're also-rans, destined for that 5-8 range on the ladder. You're not Premiership material at the moment. Learn to love it, learn to live with it, and you won't look like a biased fool on BigFooty

 

[KissStephanie]

Well you do have a consistent record of only seeing things from a very positive Collingwood perspective.

What consistent record? I haven't seen such a record. Has it ever crossed your mind that I am just a realist considering that Collingwood has been finalists each year since I joined BigFooty, and they won the premiership last year? I certainly haven't made anything up, because there is nothing worse in my opinion than when people on BigFooty just write unfounded and unsupported rubbish, regardless of whether it is about footy, politics, or anything else.

Trust me Collingwood were very fortunate.

Ha ha ha! Well if you say so then. Are you fair dinkum? I have just shared my opinion regarding that, and you haven't said anything in response regarding it. Collingwood used the same amount of players as the Western Bulldogs last season, and David Buttifant has done a great job of getting players up each week. They weren't fortunate because I believe it was the work of the fitness and sports science staff that paid off.

I am not sure Brad Dick would have improved Collingwood. The only one I could see him replacing was Blair.

He has contributed 50 goals in 24 matches, and I think he would have been selected ahead of either Jarryd Blair or Tyson Goldsack. I think that Chris Tarrant and Andrew Krakouer will replace those two players this year.

Now I know you no nothing ouside of Collingwood.

Is this an attempted insult? It certainly isn't true at all, and I haven't seen anything from you to support this inaccurate accusation.

Which best side player do you consider the Bulldogs were without Cooney- akin to Collingwood without Swan. Higgins at least the equal of a Sidebottom

It was certainly bad timing to be without those two players at that stage of the season, but I don't know whether or not they were unfortunate considering they were soft tissue injuries, and I don't know the training methods there. Shaun Higgins has been battling groin problems for two seasons now, so maybe it is chronic for him, and although his thyroiditis was unfortunate, it was not footy related at all.

plus seriously underdone players needing post season surgery in Lake, Williams, Griffen, Hargrave, Morris and seriously curtailed seasons among those playing in Johnson, Ward and Minson.

From my understanding, those players were available for selection, so it's up to the club to play them or not in a final, and all clubs usually have players that need post season surgery.

No I don't believe Collingwood are the only side, but like every side a serious injury to a key player could derail any chance of a premiership. I see Darren Jolly as maybe the key at Collingwood, because they have no cover for him.

Again, I have absolutely no idea of the reason for your obsession regarding the fitness of Darren Jolly. All clubs have at least one player that is irreplaceable, and he has actually played 140 matches in succession, and he doesn't have any history of injury problems. If you're going to name a Collingwood player, then why don't you at least pick one that has chronic injuries? None that I can think of do though.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

No, there's no confusion or going off-topic. I was simply responding to what you'd written. It's not a complicated issue - the Hawks are overrated, by their own supporters and some others too. Doesn't really matter who by. Truth is though, you're also-rans, destined for that 5-8 range on the ladder. You're not Premiership material at the moment. Learn to love it, learn to live with it, and you won't look like a biased fool on BigFooty

I agree that the Hawks are overrated, but I think Collingwood supporters are in for a rude awakening in 2011

 

[KissStephanie]

I agree that the Hawks are overrated, but I hope Collingwood supporters are in for a rude awakening in 2011

I've edited your post for accuracy considering you haven't given any valid reason why you feel that way. Collingwood were the best team of 2010 and deserving premiers, and we deserve to be favourites for this years premiership currently too, and there isn't a team that stands out as the main challenger at this stage either.

I don't think Collingwood will suffer a premiership hangover either, particularly as the players are aware it's Michael Malthouse's final season, and they will be keen to send him out with another one. I also believe that Collingwood's best team will be stronger than it was last year too.

Collingwood have not lost any key players either as Hawthorn had after 2008, and I don't believe that Malthouse will stand still and wait for other clubs to catch up as Alastair Clarkson, Mark Thompson and Ross Lyon have done in recent seasons. That said, if you disagree with me, then go right ahead and explain your reasons.

 

[Gus]

How about making a new thread?

This shit has nothing to do with the thread title, and nobody but Hawks and Magpies supporters seen to care.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

What consistent record? I haven't seen such a record. Has it ever crossed your mind that I am just a realist considering that Collingwood has been finalists each year since I joined BigFooty, and they won the premiership last year? I certainly haven't made anything up, because there is nothing worse in my opinion than when people on BigFooty just write unfounded and unsupported rubbish, regardless of whether it is about footy, politics, or anything else.

Well you do consistently post with a Collingwood bias. In 2009 you were posting about why Collingwood were better and you do not show balance, but you obviously disagree and Collingwood did get the flag. When you can show me that you have been even handed and written something that does not rate Collingwood better at everything you will have more credibility.

Ha ha ha! Well if you say so then. Are you fair dinkum? I have just shared my opinion regarding that, and you haven't said anything in response regarding it. Collingwood used the same amount of players as the Western Bulldogs last season, and David Buttifant has done a great job of getting players up each week. They weren't fortunate because I believe it was the work of the fitness and sports science staff that paid off.

Collingwood getting through a season without serious long term injury and being able to pick their best side in finals is fortunate. It does seem to be a common theme with premiership sides. St Kilda were less fortunate, but were the best at this in 2009. Luck plays a part even though the professionalism of the staff is improving.

He has contributed 50 goals in 24 matches, and I think he would have been selected ahead of either Jarryd Blair or Tyson Goldsack. I think that Chris Tarrant and Andrew Krakouer will replace those two players this year.

I stand by my point that Brad Dick would not have improved Collingwood.

Is this an attempted insult? It certainly isn't true at all, and I haven't seen anything from you to support this inaccurate accusation.

Well it certainly is true. I pointed out 2 best 22 players that the Bulldogs were missing, when you claimed there was only 1. My point was correct.

It was certainly bad timing to be without those two players at that stage of the season, but I don't know whether or not they were unfortunate considering they were soft tissue injuries, and I don't know the training methods there. Shaun Higgins has been battling groin problems for two seasons now, so maybe it is chronic for him, and although his thyroiditis was unfortunate, it was not footy related at all.

Higgins had an illness, which is hardly a soft tissue problem and yes Cooney was missing with a hamstring, which is a common complaint and there was a suggestion it was caused by an uneven SCG surface.

From my understanding, those players were available for selection, so it's up to the club to play them or not in a final, and all clubs usually have players that need post season surgery.

It was clear that morris was rushed back in amd Lake and Williams were playing under duress and would likely have been rested if it had been anything other than a sudden death final.

Again, I have absolutely no idea of the reason for your obsession regarding the fitness of Darren Jolly. All clubs have at least one player that is irreplaceable, and he has actually played 140 matches in succession, and he doesn't have any history of injury problems. If you're going to name a Collingwood player, then why don't you at least pick one that has chronic injuries? None that I can think of do though.

No real obsession with Jolly other than if he were to go down Collingwood would be a remote chance at best.

 

[KissStephanie]

Well you do consistently post with a Collingwood bias.

Such as when? Show an example. I certainly don't make anything up.

In 2009 you were posting about why Collingwood were better and you do not show balance, but you obviously disagree and Collingwood did get the flag.

If you're going to make an inaccurate accusation, then at least show the posts that you're referring to because anybody can say anything about anybody, but that doesn't make it true. If you can't show the posts that you're referring to, or if you can't be bothered looking for them, then don't make inaccurate accusations.

When you can show me that you have been even handed and written something that does not rate Collingwood better at everything you will have more credibility.

I actually don't really care if you think I have credibility or not because I am aware that I don't rate Collingwood better at everything, and you have just made that up. If I believe that Collingwood is better in certain aspects or better than certain teams, then I will say so if that is okay with you. My predictions regarding most teams have been fairly accurate over the past few years.

Collingwood getting through a season without serious long term injury and being able to pick their best side in finals is fortunate.

That is your opinion, and I disagree with that for reasons I have previously given. It was good recovery, preparation and training methods that enabled the club to use 33 different players last year, which was the same number as the Western Bulldogs.

It does seem to be a common theme with premiership sides.

Oh dear. Again, Sydney were the trendsetter in 2005-06 at being able to use as few as 31 different players in a season, and it should be the aim for all premiership contenders. I believe that Collingwood will be able to keep the numbers down again this year, but as for serious onfield injuries, all teams are equal regarding that, so why do you keep going on about it?

St Kilda were less fortunate, but were the best at this in 2009. Luck plays a part even though the professionalism of the staff is improving.

I'm not interested in good luck or bad luck or superstitions. I'm only interested in what can be done by the clubs to keep the injury numbers down, and I believe that Collingwood are very good at that, and I don't see any reason why that should change this year.

I stand by my point that Brad Dick would not have improved Collingwood.

I disagree with you. I think Brad Dick in last years team would have made Collingwood better.

Well it certainly is true. I pointed out 2 best 22 players that the Bulldogs were missing, when you claimed there was only 1. My point was correct.

I overlooked Higgins which is understandable considering he is injury prone, and he seems to suffer a lot of soft tissue injuries.

Higgins had an illness, which is hardly a soft tissue problem

But he also had a calf strain at the end of last season, which is a soft tissue injury, and he has had groin problems for the past two seasons as well. It seems I know more about other clubs than you know about your own club.

Cooney was missing with a hamstring, which is a common complaint and there was a suggestion it was caused by an uneven SCG surface.

I don't know what caused it. Maybe it was the surface. Maybe it was a ticking time bomb due to training methods.

It was clear that morris was rushed back in amd Lake and Williams were playing under duress and would likely have been rested if it had been anything other than a sudden death final.

The Western Bulldogs were not alone regarding players that were carrying injures in finals.

No real obsession with Jolly other than if he were to go down Collingwood would be a remote chance at best.

I don't believe that Collingwood's chances would be remote at best anyway. They would be reduced of course, but that is the same for all clubs because they all have at least one player that are irreplaceable. I'm starting to think you believe that Collingwood is the only team that could be effected by such a loss, when that is not the case at all.

That said, your obsession regarding the fitness of Darren Jolly is unbelievable and it shows no end. He has played 140 matches in succession, so there is nothing to suggest that he is going to "go down." Is it purely a ridiculous hypothetical example based on nothing whatsoever? Why do you continue with that crap, and what has made you even think of it considering he has no injury history?

 

[AG]

Wow. Multi quote contest between KS and BJ.

 

[Rioli magic]

Wow.

It's on.

Multi quote

Should that be hyphenated?

contest

It's never a contest when it involves Collingwood.

between KS

A scholar of the game with superb quoting skills.

and BJ.

Should've known better.

 

[Dazb86]

KissStephanie is a master troll. Irritates the hell out of everyone. Including her own clubs supporters.

I expect this to be quoted and dissected.

 

[stfan]

I certainly haven't made anything up, because there is nothing worse in my opinion than when people on BigFooty just write unfounded and unsupported rubbish, .

This is the same KSS that had Riewoldt having torn his hamstring off the bone.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

..........
That said, your obsession regarding the fitness of Darren Jolly is unbelievable and it shows no end. He has played 140 matches in succession, so there is nothing to suggest that he is going to "go down." Is it purely a ridiculous hypothetical example based on nothing whatsoever? Why do you continue with that crap, and what has made you even think of it considering he has no injury history?

You just don't get it.
Obviously Darren Jolly could never get a serious injury because he has never had one.

Perfectly logical.

We will ignore the fact that some players have copped season ending and even career ending injuries, despite have no previous injury history. (as you would need an example I give you Luke Darcy in 2005 and I know he is not at Collingwood and you will contend that it could not happen at Collingwood)

Actually Darren Jolly has as much chance of a serious injury as anyone, but Collingwood's chance of back to back flags would be seriously diminished without him.

I am not obsessed with Jolly, I simply used him to illustrate a point about Collingwood's so called premiership window.

Wow. Multi quote contest between KS and BJ.

Should've known better.

I know.
I feared the outcome when I first posted.

I also know that this post will illicit another response.

Stephanie is certainly tenacious.

 

[The Donners]

You're ***** if GC and/or GWS are not on the bottom of your list. More than 70% of their players haven't played a single AFL match.

 

[al ain pie]

the voss clock

[youtube]gmzYVzSUnew[/youtube]

 

[feathers]

No, there's no confusion or going off-topic. I was simply responding to what you'd written. It's not a complicated issue - the Hawks are overrated, by their own supporters and some others too. Doesn't really matter who by. Truth is though, you're also-rans, destined for that 5-8 range on the ladder. You're not Premiership material at the moment. Learn to love it, learn to live with it, and you won't look like a biased fool on BigFooty

my god,looks like i have to break it down for you.firstly,i don't know how hawthorn or collingwood will go this year,and newsflash,nor do you!secondly,i responded to a statement,saying that nobody rates hawthorn,except hawthorn fans.....you with me so far.....good.i replied,that cannot be the case, as we are third favourites for the flag.you jumped in with "that only indicates that the punters are putting money on the hawks"........now,you are just unknowingly backing my statement up.i don't care if you or anybody else think that the hawks are underrated or overrated,because it means nothing.i'll say it again,"it means nothing"!overrated,underrated....who gives a shit.the fact is, the punters do rate us, rightly or wrongly,and the punters are somebody's,are they not?and don't give me that rubbish that these punters are all hawthorn fans.you stuck your nose in a place it didn't belong,and reeled off alot of old tosh that i don't give a damn about.won't be responding again,as you seem like one of these people who will have the last word,regardless.so go for it sonny!

 

[KissStephanie]

KissStephanie is a master troll.

Ha ha ha! What a hypocrite! Can there possibly be any more troll like behaviour than this post?

Irritates the hell out of everyone.

Considering that you've already shown yourself to be a hypocrite and that you don't know me at all, then I think it's fair to assume you're projecting the view that you have of yourself toward me. I can understand that you find yourself irritating though.

Including her own clubs supporters.

I've met some of them and I have plenty of friends that barrack for Collingwood and other teams too, but BigFooty is not real life. I've heard you're a painter in real life though, and not a very good one at that, and nobody wants to work with you, and that your neighbours throw eggs at you when they see you.

I expect this to be quoted and dissected.

I've actually never read a previous post of yours, and I won't be reading another in the future because you clearly have nothing to say. I'm obviously not going to miss much.

You just don't get it.
Obviously Darren Jolly could never get a serious injury because he has never had one.

Of course any player in the AFL can get a serious injury, but I don't understand why you are mentioning Darren Jolly regarding that. Is it just a ridiculous hypothetical example based on nothing at all whatsoever?

We will ignore the fact that some players have copped season ending and even career ending injuries, despite have no previous injury history. (as you would need an example I give you Luke Darcy in 2005

You're unbelievable. What on earth has even made you think of the possibility of Darren Jolly suffering either a season or career ending injury? What sort of person would even think such a thing? It's ridiculous. I can understand the discussion of a potential injury to a player that has a history of injuries in their past, but it seems you're actually talking about the possibility of an unfortunate on field occurrence which could happen to any club and ruin their chances.

I know he is not at Collingwood and you will contend that it could not happen at Collingwood

For the first and last time, don't put words into my mouth because I have never said or suggested that it could not happen at Collingwood. My point is clearly that it is ridiculous to discuss such a hypothetical situation that would severely effect the chances of any team equally. It seems to me that you're only prepared to discuss the possibility of such an injury occurring to an important Collingwood player, and that is ridiculous.

Actually Darren Jolly has as much chance of a serious injury as anyone, but Collingwood's chance of back to back flags would be seriously diminished without him.

Your obsession regarding the fitness of Darren Jolly is morbid. It seems to me that you're actually hoping that something like that happens to him, otherwise why would you even think to bring it up? It also seems to me that you believe that such an injury can only happen to Jolly, but not any other irreplaceable player from another club, including your own. If you're going to mention the possibility of such a ridiculous hypothetical, then why aren't you discussing the other players that would equally effect their teams chances of any sort of success? It's stupid.

I am not obsessed with Jolly

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You're only prepared to discuss the possibility of such a serious injury occurring to him because you're obsessed by it.

I simply used him to illustrate a point about Collingwood's so called premiership window.

What is wrong with you? Every team would be in the same situation if they lost one of their most important players, but you're only talking about what that would do to Collingwood. The possibility of such an injury occurring to Lance Franklin, or Nick Riewoldt or Adam Cooney or Ryan Griffen wouldn't be any different.

If the Western Bulldogs lost Ben Hudson (6th in the 2010 best and fairest and 1st in the 2010 Brad Johnson award), then they don't have an adequate replacement either. It's ridiculous to talk about such a thing that is far more unlikely to occur because it is the vast minority of players that suffer such serious injuries.

I feared the outcome when I first posted.

Well there is nothing that I have said that is inaccurate, and your biased obsession regarding the fitness of only Darren Jolly is weird, so what did you expect?

 

[KissStephanie]

the voss clock

If only he had busted his clock before he recruited all of those [strike]duds[/strike] players last year, then Brisbane wouldn't be in such a horrible state currently.

 

[Damon_3388]

my god,looks like i have to break it down for you.firstly,i don't know how hawthorn or collingwood will go this year,and newsflash,nor do you!secondly,i responded to a statement,saying that nobody rates hawthorn,except hawthorn fans.....you with me so far.....good.i replied,that cannot be the case, as we are third favourites for the flag.you jumped in with "that only indicates that the punters are putting money on the hawks"........now,you are just unknowingly backing my statement up.i don't care if you or anybody else think that the hawks are underrated or overrated,because it means nothing.i'll say it again,"it means nothing"!overrated,underrated....who gives a shit.the fact is, the punters do rate us, rightly or wrongly,and the punters are somebody's,are they not?and don't give me that rubbish that these punters are all hawthorn fans.you stuck your nose in a place it didn't belong,and reeled off alot of old tosh that i don't give a damn about.won't be responding again,as you seem like one of these people who will have the last word,regardless.so go for it sonny!

It's not about having the last word "sonny", I just simply disagree with you, and think the "they still fear us" attitude that so many Hawks supporters hang on to (whether it be towards by own club or any other, but mainly seems to be directed at Collingwood) is far worse than any perceived arrogance the Pies supporters have shown in recent years.

What I meant with the punter thing was this - Sure, some people do rate the Hawks and want to put money on them, but it doesn't actually mean they are the third best team in the league, just because the bookie's odds say so. I seem to recall Carlton being strongly backed into the top 4 in the 2009 pre-season, and the Dogs were "Premiership favourites" with the bookies before the Pies beat them by 6 goals in Round 1 last year too. Punters overrate a team or two every year. The odds aren't a true form guide, they really do just show who the punters have put money on. That being said, straight up opinion (either from experts or the average bloke in the street/on BigFooty) can be wrong too - I seem to recall every man and his dog pegging the Eagles as a "smokey" for the 8 this time last year, and pre-season 2009, the Crows were genrally predicted to come 12th-13th.

None of us know exactly what's going to happen this season. The AFL throws up surprises all the time. But IMO, the Hawks haven't got enough this year to rise above the lower half of the 8, and have definitely been surpassed by Collingwood.