Primus - how is the gloss looking

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

This is the problem... they're not all good players... they're capable of playing good football, but they all have problems sustaining it.

Put any one of them in a balanced midfield such as Geelong's and they will seem to play a lot better than in ours. In ours they "seem" to play worse than they actually do.

 

[finbarr]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Put any one of them in a balanced midfield such as Geelong's and they will seem to play a lot better than in ours. In ours they "seem" to play worse than they actually do.

Put any of them in a working environment like Geelong's and see what would happen. Imagine the damage Rodan could do to every opposition in the comp if he worked and pushed himself as hard as Chris Judd.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Hang on, look at what James Hird says:

link

"I can't imagine there's a better coach in Australia in the way he develops players and teaches them to play football," Hird said

link

oh wait ...

of Brendan McCartney. "I'm surprised someone like that hasn't had a chance at senior level, because in my time in footy I don't think I've met a better coach."

... my bad, he was talking about the guy Primus beat for the job.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Didn't Hird beat him for the job too?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Yeah but he got him as an assistant coach along with Bomber and co.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Hang on, look at what James Hird says:

link

link

oh wait ...



... my bad, he was talking about the guy Primus beat for the job.

Yes, but..... but.....

 

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Put any one of them in a balanced midfield such as Geelong's and they will seem to play a lot better than in ours.

I sooooooooooooo agree

If Westhoff- who is a star by the way- if he played in a good team he'd be a star in that Team, its the 1-dimensional plodders in our team holding him back

If Rodan- who is a star by the way- if he played in a good team he'd be a star in that Team, its the 1-dimensional plodders in our team holding him back

If Pearce - who is a star by the way- if he played in a good team he'd be a star in that Team, its the 1-dimensional plodders in our team holding him back

If Boak- who is a star by the way- if he played in a good team he'd be a star in that Team, its the 1-dimensional plodders in our team holding him back

If Kane- who is a star by the way- if he played in a good team he'd be a star in that Team, its the 1-dimensional plodders in our team holding him back

If Salopek- who is a star by the way- if he played in a good team he'd be a star in that Team, its the 1-dimensional plodders in our team holding him back

In ours they "seem" to play worse than they actually do.

Gee, our team of potential champions couldn't simply be the sum of its parts now could it?

Look, I used to think this too. But then the AFL gave us the Gold Coast Suns, which was the opportunity for our potential "stars", you know, those Judds and ABletts soaring with the other turkeys who are holding them back from showing their true potential

Best thing the AFL ever did for us

And Trav got 14 touches, didn't lift when it mattered, and showed how to take a game on his terms- just as Ablett did

Seriously, if a person can't see the players for who they were when the tide was drawn out like that, they are a fool

As for Primus, well, he got found out too. It was and is Choco part 2,

Mini Me

Gloss on

Gloss off

Primus

 

[kaysee]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Just seen Primus on the Sunday football show on channel 7. He presented himself extremely well (ohhh what a contrast to the bombscare that was a MW interview). He really represented our club extremely well to the Vic media... a recap IIRC:

1) Asked if this was the lowest point in our club (losing 2 weeks in a row to the 17th club).
MP: it is certainly a low point, but perhaps not the lowest. In 2000 we spent most of the year in last place... that was pretty bad. And in a different way we had some poor finals series that was pretty low before winning in 2004.

2) Asked about the Showdowns, build up, games and let downs after them.
MP: Build was big for the 1st few years but has subsided since, especially last few. PAFC record after showdowns has been good the last 2 years... winning each time after a showdown until that GCS game.

3) Asked about leadership and lack of it within the playing group... if it is a problem.
MP: Reminded them that Cassissi (our capt) and Schulz (our forward leader) were out ATM. Schulz a chance to return this week. They immediately bring back leadership. Others are young leaders who learning to be leaders week by week on the track and in games.

MP also went on to say that so far he has been impressed with Pittard and O'Shea (IMO he likes how they're at least excited and keep attacking the game... even though they will make mistakes). That we need to get many games and experience into our 18-25yos... and that players who've played 100+ games need to start being consistently better players.

Finally, they touched on MP having played with a few players (ie Chad Cornes) and crossed to a Cornes pre-rec-interview. Cornes said how they use to be best mates but is no longer the case (MP being his coach makes that hard). Now a more normal coachlayer relationship and he rates MP as a coach.

MP: replied saying yeah coaching changes the prior relationships. He tries to have open coaching relationships with all the players. He wants them to be best they can and coach them to be that... and if players feel they need something to become better the coaching will help them with that.

That's about all I can recall... but he came across very well.

PS - they also jokingly asked which player is the "coaches pet" to which he dodged and handballed the question saying ask the players.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Great posting, Pred.

Primus' biggest failure at present (amidst plenty of them) is that he is not getting the players, other than Brogan, to play with any sort of passion or emotion. Their demeanour on the field reflects his off it. I'm all for cool and composed, but there's a time and a place to implore the players to play with heart and passion or force it from them. He's not doing this and it's the most heartbreaking aspect of all of this.

That and that there is no intimidation factor in this Port side. Zero, zip, nada. I've never been more disheartened in that aspect of a Port side. Ever. Even when Russell was blooding kids thru the mid 80s we either still had a couple of hard men out there (eg Clifford) or some willing kids (eg Mahney).

I didn't know whether to cry or throw my coffee cup at the TV when Harvey went on his 3 bounce running goal stroll through our defence. I can't think of a player ever who would treat us with the regular contempt Harvey shows. We even found ways to curb Barrie Robran at times.

And yet I know how important an aspect this was of Primus's game.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So did Primus even seem upset in the box? Wow, we got a coach who says the right things and we're a shit team. I'd rather have an angry choco than a calm Primus in this situation to be honest. Primus didn't even look upset once during the game.

 

[bomberclifford]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Just seen Primus on the Sunday football show on channel 7. He presented himself extremely well (ohhh what a contrast to the bombscare that was a MW interview). He really represented our club extremely well to the Vic media... a recap IIRC:

1) Asked if this was the lowest point in our club (losing 2 weeks in a row to the 17th club).
MP: it is certainly a low point, but perhaps not the lowest. In 2000 we spent most of the year in last place... that was pretty bad. And in a different way we had some poor finals series that was pretty low before winning in 2004.

2) Asked about the Showdowns, build up, games and let downs after them.
MP: Build was big for the 1st few years but has subsided since, especially last few. PAFC record after showdowns has been good the last 2 years... winning each time after a showdown until that GCS game.

3) Asked about leadership and lack of it within the playing group... if it is a problem.
MP: Reminded them that Cassissi (our capt) and Schulz (our forward leader) were out ATM. Schulz a chance to return this week. They immediately bring back leadership. Others are young leaders who learning to be leaders week by week on the track and in games.

MP also went on to say that so far he has been impressed with Pittard and O'Shea (IMO he likes how they're at least excited and keep attacking the game... even though they will make mistakes). That we need to get many games and experience into our 18-25yos... and that players who've played 100+ games need to start being consistently better players.

Finally, they touched on MP having played with a few players (ie Chad Cornes) and crossed to a Cornes pre-rec-interview. Cornes said how they use to be best mates but is no longer the case (MP being his coach makes that hard). Now a more normal coachlayer relationship and he rates MP as a coach.

MP: replied saying yeah coaching changes the prior relationships. He tries to have open coaching relationships with all the players. He wants them to be best they can and coach them to be that... and if players feel they need something to become better the coaching will help them with that.

That's about all I can recall... but he came across very well.

PS - they also jokingly asked which player is the "coaches pet" to which he dodged and handballed the question saying ask the players.

I think you missed the most important thing he said; something along the lines of, "We know where we are as a footy club and what we need to do to get back on top. We'll keep playing youth and its going to be a tough year."

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I think you missed the most important thing he said; something along the lines of, "We know where we are as a footy club and what we need to do to get back on top. We'll keep playing youth and its going to be a tough year."

The mindset of Primus and the club must now change from:

"Gees boys we have to win this one" to
"Gees boys, just show us what you have and whether you want to stay here and be a part of getting back to the top".

Primus will have to learn the right way to do that and maintain some form of teamwork and game plan development - it will not be easy.

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So did Primus even seem upset in the box? Wow, we got a coach who says the right things and we're a shit team. I'd rather have an angry choco than a calm Primus in this situation to be honest. Primus didn't even look upset once during the game.

To be honest, if I was a player, I would be more afraid of a calm Primus than an angry choco.

 

[kaysee]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Put any one of them in a balanced midfield such as Geelong's and they will seem to play a lot better than in ours. In ours they "seem" to play worse than they actually do.

Put any Geelong midfielder in our team and watch them shine.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Someone like Varcoe would be in the SANFL within a month of having to play in our side. Mooney would've been delisted years ago.

 

[Portia]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Hang on, look at what James Hird says:

link

link

oh wait ...



... my bad, he was talking about the guy Primus beat for the job.

I am pretty sure I once read Hird describing Choco the same way, based on his time at Essendon.

How many of the positive traits outlined about McCartney in that article are transportable to a senior coaching job? Making time to be best mates with every player is a luxury for a senior coach.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Put any Geelong midfielder in our team and watch them shine.

I seriously doubt that.

 

[tribey]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I seriously doubt that.

Gary Ablett at GC17 is a ready example. 1 man can't go it alone, but he can still have an enormous individual impact.

 

[Portology]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I think you missed the most important thing he said; something along the lines of, "We know where we are as a footy club and what we need to do to get back on top. We'll keep playing youth and its going to be a tough year."

Yep. Who give a toss about the gloss, it's the substance that matters. If some players won't or can't adapt they are gone at the end of the year in favour of this seasons debut players, hopefully to include Jacobs & Butcher. I'm not competent enough to tell the difference between a player who won't do what they are told and one who isn't up to it yet. Throw in a coaching box that is also learning and you know what, it is what it is. Ugly as a newborn and crapping itself everywhere. At the end of the year, after the next draft/trade period I think it's fair to make a first progress judgement on Primus and the current coaching box. The first thing he'll have had complete control over is the first 12 complete months.

I c+p below an edit of something I posted "on another site". With "experts" trying to judge Primus so quickly, perspective on what Choco had to work with at first, how long it took him to get going may be useful

Like Port Adelaide, Rome wasn't built in a day, and people have short and selective memories and unrealistic expectations leading to some fairly embarrassing posts over the last few weeks. Choco started with a *partly* developed squad, assembled with concessions, sure, not as generous as others got. That squad got 2 solid years AFL with Jack, more a "character first" coach than a tactical "clever guy". Choco made inspired choices early; retiring a few oldies; repairing relationships broken under Jack, trading for perfect "fillers", adjusting the game plan just as he had two great marking KPPs coming to their prime. A season later (2001) we were competing at the top*. Let's not forget the great Choco did early... yes he went mad later, yes he more than any other single person is responsible for the gaping holes in our squad. But he too started with one year of absolute **** footy (2000).

And here's is the point: can anyone seriously expect Primus to achieve quicker early progress than Choco did when he is starting SO much further behind in every area on and off field than Choco did ?????

Knuckle down, knuckleheads, watch for progress even if just one player at a time. Question what you don't understand... but put in an effort to question intelligently. Don't just mouth off like a bunch of Freo/Richmond w***ers.

 

[powermacs]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

^^ great post!!

 

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

YIf some players won't or can't adapt they are gone at the end of the year

what i fail to understand is why people dont ask why this didn't happen last year

i mean what, choco was gone by rd 11? primus got 7 games in okay, he has been at the club for 13 years

can someone please explain to me, what he will learn from Rds 7-24 that ISN'T BLEEDIN OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE ELSE OUT THERE?????

We know who needs to go

We know who disappears most of the time

The only thing we don't know is Pri(m)us' game plan, and thats is because when there are NO FORWARDS in front of the centre square for half a game well, connect the dots

Basically my friends, we have wasted 2011, just as we wasted 2010 and 2009 and 2008

So who wants to give odds that there will be any changes at season end

Im looking into my crystal ball here and do you know what I see??


No!!! Its not more of the same (everyone can see that dont need me to say that)

I see dumb people

Really, really dumb people

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

what i fail to understand is why people dont ask why this didn't happen last year

Because the Choco-led Port put spuddy players on stupidly long contracts. The only player Primus had an opportunity to get rid of, probably should have gotten rid of and didn't was Danny Meyer.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

How would the Andrew Walker for Daniel Motlop trade be looking now?

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Danny Meyer was lucky to be promoted this year for sure, but the alternative would have been a draft pick in the high 60's or 70's or more had Krakouer not walked. I know it's an old argument, but we did do well to get 4 draft picks not too far down the order which we used on some talented kids.

Also, we have started chaging the list a bit. Don't underestimate the amount of deadwood that was on our list: Scott Harding (recycled hack), Jay Nash (recycled hack), Wade Thompson (pre-season hero who Choco had a hard-on for), Matthew Westhoff (keeping it in the family).

And, speaking about contracts, keep in mind a good chunck of players will survive the end of season cull as they're contracted for next year. After all, Choco was meant to be coaching this year and it's still effectively his list.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Gary Ablett at GC17 is a ready example. 1 man can't go it alone, but he can still have an enormous individual impact.

A Gary Ablett is a superstar.
B Only in 1 out of 4 games so far.