List Mgmt. Problems with our List going forward

[Davo-27]

ok i thought i'd take a look at our list as a way to constructively critique the position in which we are in so that hopefully the club can identify these problems and hopefully make actions to rectify these problem areas in years to come

Board: It all starts at the top and we have been blessed to have Kennett and Newbold as our Presidents who demanded success and at the same time supported the team by making the hard decisions, the new president has not done much except not retire players and make non decisions so far (please dont be another yes man) but its too early to make a solid call yet

Assistant Coaches: unfortunately we have lost a lot of our assistant coaches which have gone onto success at other clubs as Coaches in their own right, other than Ratten who has kept our forward line chugging along in some big absences, we might need to bring in different coaches to share different ideas

Playing List: we know some of out older players are coming to the end of their careers and some of our fringe players have not come on as we have desired they do

OLDER BLOKES
Luke Hodge - has been dropping off in quality for the last few years, but is such a great captain and leader we have kept him around for longer than he has deserved (football abilities) i was surprised he got a contract extension.
Josh Gibson - this year was the first time i've thought he wasnt AFL quality, has been a star for us for a long time, but based on 2016's form, i think he only has limited value to us going forward
Sam Mitchell + Jordan Lewis + Shaun Burgoyne - all 3 are playing well enough at the moment, but how long until they have to be retired off?
Grant Birchall - like Hodge has been dropping off over the last few years, seems to have lost interest a bit, still can be a weapon running out of defense, but doesnt bother with defensive structures as much, he looks like he is done, wouldnt be surprised if 2017 was his last yr
Jarryd Roughead - unfortunately is sick with cancer treatment and is 30, i hope the big fella comes back and gets his health right
Spangher - 29 years old contract is up and holds no value

YOUNGER BLOKES
Bradley Hill - wants to be traded to Fremantle, unfortunate that a 23 year old with talent wants to leave, but i hope we get something for him
Will Langford - has a contract until 2019, if he didnt he might be dropped off of the list, has gone backwards in development
Billy Hartung - if he stays he will get more opportunity with Hill leaving, i wouldnt be surprised if we traded him
Angus Litherland - i think his time is up at HFC
Tim O'Brien - got another year on his contract, doubt he will stay after that
Jono O'Rourke - needs to prove why he was drafted at pick 2 soon
Willsmore - holds no value
Webster - holds no value

so those are the Challenges for the HFC going forward, hopefully they are brave enough to make the tough decisions going forward so we dont drop off too hard in coming years

 

[hawkgal02]

Who are Sam Gibson and Jordan Roughead?

 

[Lotus]

Who are Sam Gibson and Jordan Roughead?

Sam Gibson : North Melbourne
Jordan Roughead: Bulldogs

 

[Davo-27]

sorry a bit tired, lol got some names mixed up

 

[La Vache]

Key forwards and key defenders. We have no quality coming through in either area. It is very hard to acquire a good big forward through a means other than an early draft pick and it looks like we are shipping those picks out this year and '17.

Frawley has had a good year too but does not mark the entry much and would benefit with the injection of that type of player in our defense but one does not currently exist on our list.

 

[kazzooka]

Key forwards and key defenders. We have no quality coming through in either area. It is very hard to acquire a good big forward through a means other than an early draft pick and it looks like we are shipping those picks out this year and '17.

Frawley has had a good year too but does not mark the entry much and would benefit with the injection of that type of player in our defense but one does not currently exist on our list.

These types of players are very rare. Lake, McGovern Taylor are the only recent ones.

Frawley is a great defender but when he's one out he's at best going to spoil (opening us up to crummers) with lake at worst he would spoil and often would outmark the forward and get the ball going our way fast. This causes all the players streaming forward to be out of position so we can rebound well.

Lake was one of the best full backs ever. I can't think of anyone better but some old timers may disagree. Easily better than SOS.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Bradkli]

Key forwards and key defenders. We have no quality coming through in either area. It is very hard to acquire a good big forward through a means other than an early draft pick and it looks like we are shipping those picks out this year and '17.

Frawley has had a good year too but does not mark the entry much and would benefit with the injection of that type of player in our defense but one does not currently exist on our list.

Well said...in hindsight getting rid of lake was a huge mistake...how many games did brand, litherland and heatherley play this year?? Bad decision...
Getting Omera and Tom Mitchell will help, but how exactly will they help kick goals?? Ryan Shoenmakers and tim O'Brien as key position forwards next year?? Laughable..how Ryan Shoenmakers had 3 kicks and took 0 marks last night with the way football is played is actually remarkable...and if you think Tyrone vickery is the answer, you're dreaming.

 

[Taskmaster]

I know, we will start again. Fold the club, delist all current players and move to NSW somewhere, i don't know, say the Canberra Hawks. The AFL will then give us the first 10 draft picks for the next 20 years, plus our own academy, plus endless amounts of $$ and do anything in their powers to make us a success. That should do it.

All this talk of moving blokes on, retiring blokes, has some credit, but seriously, they are humans, being up for so long, means at some point they will look cooked. I can guarantee with some intellegent trading and lessons from mistakes this year, we will be back as soon as 2017

 

[Pessimistic]

Seem to be really in the shit. Should have been retiring and drafting instead of worrying about all those premierships..

Yo do realise weve been playing young uns as much as the rste of the comp, and still finishing top 4 with a draw rigged against us?

 

[Pessimistic]

Well said...in hindsight getting rid of lake was a huge mistake...how many games did brand, litherland and heatherley play this year?? Bad decision...
Getting Omera and Tom Mitchell will help, but how exactly will they help kick goals?? Ryan Shoenmakers and tim O'Brien as key position forwards next year?? Laughable..how Ryan Shoenmakers had 3 kicks and took 0 marks last night with the way football is played is actually remarkable...and if you think Tyrone vickery is the answer, you're dreaming.

Thread starts out saying we kept guys too long, ends up saying we should have kept someone who retired last year
Dont ever change bigfooty

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Your Birchall, Hodge and Gibson memories are fallacies and the thread loses all credibility as a result.

Hodge battled injuries through this year but still came back to be BOG last week for us and he was one of the few who kept trying last night. This 'last few years' nonsense is just utter crap. Hodge had a fantastic season in 2014 and 2015 - in which he won a Norm Smith and came bloody c lose to winning another. Get him fit for next year and he still offers plenty for what will likely be a swan song season that he's more than deserved.

Birchall - I'd be repeating myself - but this drop off over 'years' is again absolute bollocks. Had poor end to the season - but he was still one of our most consistent prior to that.

Gibson had some cracking games at the start of the season. Came off the boil a bit which I dare say is due to injuries more than form itself. Again, a good off/pre season and there is no reason why we should doubt that he can go around again.

I just love that after being in 5 straight prelims, 6 straight top 4 finishes, 4 straight grand finals and 3 straight premierships that apparently we have all these players that have apparently been on the slide for 'years'. Amazing really that we didn't finish bottom 4 the way some are taking.

 

[hawksfan71]

ok i thought i'd take a look at our list as a way to constructively critique the position in which we are in so that hopefully the club can identify these problems and hopefully make actions to rectify these problem areas in years to come

Board: It all starts at the top and we have been blessed to have Kennett and Newbold as our Presidents who demanded success and at the same time supported the team by making the hard decisions, the new president has not done much except not retire players and make non decisions so far (please dont be another yes man) but its too early to make a solid call yet

Assistant Coaches: unfortunately we have lost a lot of our assistant coaches which have gone onto success at other clubs as Coaches in their own right, other than Ratten who has kept our forward line chugging along in some big absences, we might need to bring in different coaches to share different ideas

Playing List: we know some of out older players are coming to the end of their careers and some of our fringe players have not come on as we have desired they do

OLDER BLOKES
Luke Hodge - has been dropping off in quality for the last few years, but is such a great captain and leader we have kept him around for longer than he has deserved (football abilities) i was surprised he got a contract extension.
Josh Gibson - this year was the first time i've thought he wasnt AFL quality, has been a star for us for a long time, but based on 2016's form, i think he only has limited value to us going forward
Sam Mitchell + Jordan Lewis + Shaun Burgoyne - all 3 are playing well enough at the moment, but how long until they have to be retired off?
Grant Birchall - like Hodge has been dropping off over the last few years, seems to have lost interest a bit, still can be a weapon running out of defense, but doesnt bother with defensive structures as much, he looks like he is done, wouldnt be surprised if 2017 was his last yr
Jarryd Roughead - unfortunately is sick with cancer treatment and is 30, i hope the big fella comes back and gets his health right
Spangher - 29 years old contract is up and holds no value

YOUNGER BLOKES
Bradley Hill - wants to be traded to Fremantle, unfortunate that a 23 year old with talent wants to leave, but i hope we get something for him
Will Langford - has a contract until 2019, if he didnt he might be dropped off of the list, has gone backwards in development
Billy Hartung - if he stays he will get more opportunity with Hill leaving, i wouldnt be surprised if we traded him
Angus Litherland - i think his time is up at HFC
Tim O'Brien - got another year on his contract, doubt he will stay after that
Jono O'Rourke - needs to prove why he was drafted at pick 2 soon
Willsmore - holds no value
Webster - holds no value

so those are the Challenges for the HFC going forward, hopefully they are brave enough to make the tough decisions going forward so we dont drop off too hard in coming years

Good post, I just wish Hawks would have the guts to drop some players like North have done, I think they re-contracted the players a bit too quickly. I would love to see Tye Vickery become a forward with us and be the key position player we so badly need. But yeh really need to get rid of some of those players. Shame Langford didn't come up to scratch this year, I love his agression at the ball and I was staggered that Spangher didn't get a call up against the cats, wold have been a better choice then Howe in hindsight who got dropped and the cats have had a bit of fear and repadation with Spangs, but he is getting older too, but I hope he can get into the team next year again. O'brien is just too skinny and not tough enough, Sicily hasn't done enough, he's a bean pole as well, he did a few good things in a few games this year and that was about it for him. Lake shouldn't have had another year as on foxtel he has said that he wouldn't have coped well and I have to agree. We need someone like Fyfe or Bontempelli, those monster midfielders, or a key position forward, so many times till bombing it in with the hope that cyril or Poppy will take a speccy......

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Thread starts out saying we kept guys too long, ends up saying we should have kept someone who retired last year
Dont ever change bigfooty

The 'we should have kept Lake' chorus conveniently forget that or defence made us a top 4 side this year. Our issues were our midfield acting as turnstiles against younger, faster sides and our forwards not being able to take a contested grab and our delivery inside forward 50 being average most of the year. Not sure how Lake miraculously solves any of that.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Good post, I just wish Hawks would have the guts to drop some players like North have done, I think they re-contracted the players a bit too quickly.

Yes why can't we have the savvy list management skills and club culture of North

 

[Pessimistic]

When you are a chance to do four in a row, if you rebuild instead, the supporters would rvolt and quite rightly too.

These issues have only surfaced the last few gamse and many of these players have had an extra 18 games over four seasons. Its an extra season of workload.

Many of the points made are true. But dont blast the club for not doing it this year. The four older guys were in our top six last year, there was every chance we could have made it. Cam up three points short last week and would ahve had a much better show against sydney probably. Ironic as they were first and bulldogs were 7th

 

[bluespooner]

On the two players you indicate have no value - Willsmore and Webster. Can Willsmore play the role of the designated kicker off the HBF with the decline of Gibson and Birchall; if Hill is traded and some are talking about possibly Hartung, can Webster play their role on the wing. If either are capable of playing these roles then whilst, they may not have value to the rest of the competition they will still have value to Hawthorn.

Gibson has looked decidedly average for sometime and he is the one player out of the veterans I wouldn't have re-signed. Litherland is the one I thnk has been treated poorly by the club as I think he has more to offer than both Gibson and Duryea.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Just curious - this Josh Gibson that everyone is lining up to sink the boot into - is he the same one who had 184 1%ers this year??

 

[Pessimistic]

The headline is the aging mids who were made to look slow by the doggies

Who also made a yonger eagles midfield look slow and soft


The footnote is our makeshift talls all season long. Thank god frawley only missed a couple.

Potentially the footnote could be the story. Lets hope not
.

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

Midfield midfield midfield and midfield

 

[Delisted]

Just curious - this Josh Gibson that everyone is lining up to sink the boot into - is he the same one who had 184 1%ers this year??

I also heard he has spent the most time on ground than any other player this year in the afl.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I also heard he has spent the most time on ground than any other player this year in the afl.

Obviously cooked then.

 

[Thaihawk]

This thread proves what I have been saying for a long time, and that is that we have a lot of fickle supporters, who, after the club delivers 3 straight flags, they know more than the coaches and club. They would be the same people who would tell a chef in a five star restaurant they were doing it wrong.

There have also been some very good posts here, and it is only the minority that are idiots.

 

[Delisted]

This thread proves what I have been saying for a long time, and that is that we have a lot of fickle supporters, who, after the club delivers 3 straight flags, they know more than the coaches and club. They would be the same people who would tell a chef in a five star restaurant they were doing it wrong.

There have also been some very good posts here, and it is only the minority that are idiots.

It's the interwebs

 

[Sleutheren]

I keep misreading this thread's title as 'Problems with our Langford' when I skim past it.

Maybe there's something in that.

 

[Cynic]

We need a key forward; Gunston is not built to be a focal point.

I don't think Vickery is the answer but I think he will be the best we can get.