List Mgmt. Problems with our List going forward

[beta_condition]

People really need to learn to sleep on opinion before screaming the skys falling, Birchall has a good 4 years left(he's never been overly defensive).

 

[The Lemon]

People really need to learn to sleep on opinion before screaming the skys falling, Birchall has a good 4 years left(he's never been overly defensive).

4 years? Mother****er would be lucky to have 4 months left man damn

 

[Bedi]

Just curious - this Josh Gibson that everyone is lining up to sink the boot into - is he the same one who had 184 1%ers this year??

being enjoying your posts 89 over the last 24 hours. One of the few voices of reason among a whole lot of crap being talked. It's a shame you have to defend our club champions to our own supporters (esp given how good they still are) but keep up the good work!

 

[Glorin]

This thread proves what I have been saying for a long time, and that is that we have a lot of fickle supporters, who, after the club delivers 3 straight flags, they know more than the coaches and club. They would be the same people who would tell a chef in a five star restaurant they were doing it wrong.

There have also been some very good posts here, and it is only the minority that are idiots.

I for one was writing off Burger early in the year after a lean spell where he must have been injured. Shows how much I know.

 

[Del33640]

I think Vickery will fit into the forward role as long as he is willing to be coached to do that job, and as he is only 26, he still has some good playing years ahead of him.

I think the big difference between Vickery and the other guys we've brought in from other clubs (that have turned out - Dew, Lake, Gibson, Burgoyne), is that they've all, at one time or another, played exceptionally well at other clubs before we got them.

Vickery has never done this. Even Big Boy had big wraps on him at one point in his career.

 

[Madness101]

Vickery, roughhead, JOM, mitchell, cegla & perhaps the older guys giving it their all for one last big pre season .... I dont think the fat lady is singing yet at hawthorn.

There will be a point when she does, naturally, but you guys tried to win your 4th in a row with a lack of leg speed & no real big foward. Next year I can see you guys being top 4 again.

 

[Qlder_19]

Hodgey has 15 games to go to 300, that is going to need to managed next year.
Along with the so called mooted rotation of the older players.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Severely lack a key forward and sadly they just don't go on trees, also 5 of probably our top 8 players are 30+ so wide do have some concerns. We need to draft well and also have successful trade and free agency periods.

 

[bumsonseats]

not sure we would get much for him, but I wouldn't be to unhappy if we lost Puopolo.
I think he has taken a step backwards this year.
Call it hyperthetical, but GC also looking for a small forward.
Yes....l know it will are a lot more than that

 

[Brant]

not sure we would get much for him, but I wouldn't be to unhappy if we lost Puopolo.
I think he has taken a step backwards this year.
Call it hyperthetical, but GC also looking for a small forward.
Yes....l know it will are a lot more than that

Small forwards need big forwards to operate around. We've kinda lacked 2x big forwards this year.

Popeye's performance will come back into favour as soon as we play 2x KPF.

 

[Gralin]

not sure we would get much for him, but I wouldn't be to unhappy if we lost Puopolo.
I think he has taken a step backwards this year.
Call it hyperthetical, but GC also looking for a small forward.
Yes....l know it will are a lot more than that

Forgot the first half of the year did we

 

[treefingers]

I think that at the end of next year, two of Hodge, Mitch, Burgoyne and Gibson need to be moved on. As shit as that day will be, I think long-term it would be the best outcome for the club. We don't want a situation ala North where they all leave at the same time.

 

[Qlder_19]

I think that at the end of next year, two of Hodge, Mitch, Burgoyne and Gibson need to be moved on. As shit as that day will be, I think long-term it would be the best outcome for the club. We don't want a situation ala North where they all leave at the same time.

Let's not be surprised if there is a announcement on PCM after the medicals and reviews are done this week and next

 

[Paul007]

Small forwards need big forwards to operate around. We've kinda lacked 2x big forwards this year.

Popeye's performance will come back into favour as soon as we play 2x KPF.

This is the issue, Poppy and Cyril can jump and take big marks and like Breust are incredible when the ball hits the deck as well, but we still need a target up forward to get on the deck, Gunners used to be a great mark on a lead when there was space I don't remember him doing that much this year, Big Boy & Ceglar are good for a mark up forward occasionally, Schoey is also a great mark and reliable set shot but he was out most of the year. Sicily should improve next year, not sure about TOB. I think our problems are further up the ground, we need a better midfield or a ruckman who is a cross between Gawn and Mumford.

 

[Brant]

This is the issue, Poppy and Cyril can jump and take big marks and like Breust are incredible when the ball hits the deck as well, but we still need a target up forward to get on the deck, Gunners used to be a great mark on a lead when there was space I don't remember him doing that much this year, Big Boy & Ceglar are good for a mark up forward occasionally, Schoey is also a great mark and reliable set shot but he was out most of the year. Sicily should improve next year, not sure about TOB. I think our problems are further up the ground, we need a better midfield or a ruckman who is a cross between Gawn and Mumford.

Not to discount the rest of your post, but Gunners is the size of a 3rd forward, implying that he also needs 2x KP Forwards to operate around.

It's no coincidence that we fell apart as a team, the same day that Hale retired & Roughy failed* to return. Even though BB & Cegs are better rucks than Hale, neither could match him in the forwardline & this really hurt Broooost, Gunners & Popeye. Cyril was afforded the opportunity to dominate the air, but to an overall loss with regard to forwardline effectiveness.


*By no means his fault. 'Failed' not implying fault - not in any way.

 

[Lord_Espos]

Rediculous thread. Yes we will have to make some changes. But don't stick the boot into our 3 peat legends. You can't win all the time!!


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Pessimistic]

Not to discount the rest of your post, but Gunners is the size of a 3rd forward, implying that he also needs 2x KP Forwards to operate around.

It's no coincidence that we fell apart as a team, the same day that Hale retired & Roughy failed* to return. Even though BB & Cegs are better rucks than Hale, neither could match him in the forwardline & this really hurt Broooost, Gunners & Popeye. Cyril was afforded the opportunity to dominate the air, but to an overall loss with regard to forwardline effectiveness.


*By no means his fault. 'Failed' not implying fault - not in any way.

Ceglar and bigboy were doing a fair job, but there was no one to give them a spell, and we know what happened to cegs. Shoe and fitz came n but werent properly conditioned or gelled enogh with the team to go into a finals series

 

[Chubberson]

I think we are wasting our time with Hartung. I backed him in for the final as I'm not a fan but he was terrible. Didn't look desperate and was scared to put his body on the line, if he doesn't start doing it early next year he needs to go. 45 games now. He will be here though, no Brad Hll.

 

[Hawkflag]

ok i thought i'd take a look at our list as a way to constructively critique the position in which we are in so that hopefully the club can identify these problems and hopefully make actions to rectify these problem areas in years to come

Board: It all starts at the top and we have been blessed to have Kennett and Newbold as our Presidents who demanded success and at the same time supported the team by making the hard decisions, the new president has not done much except not retire players and make non decisions so far (please dont be another yes man) but its too early to make a solid call yet

Assistant Coaches: unfortunately we have lost a lot of our assistant coaches which have gone onto success at other clubs as Coaches in their own right, other than Ratten who has kept our forward line chugging along in some big absences, we might need to bring in different coaches to share different ideas

Playing List: we know some of out older players are coming to the end of their careers and some of our fringe players have not come on as we have desired they do

OLDER BLOKES
Luke Hodge - has been dropping off in quality for the last few years, but is such a great captain and leader we have kept him around for longer than he has deserved (football abilities) i was surprised he got a contract extension.
Josh Gibson - this year was the first time i've thought he wasnt AFL quality, has been a star for us for a long time, but based on 2016's form, i think he only has limited value to us going forward
Sam Mitchell + Jordan Lewis + Shaun Burgoyne - all 3 are playing well enough at the moment, but how long until they have to be retired off?
Grant Birchall - like Hodge has been dropping off over the last few years, seems to have lost interest a bit, still can be a weapon running out of defense, but doesnt bother with defensive structures as much, he looks like he is done, wouldnt be surprised if 2017 was his last yr
Jarryd Roughead - unfortunately is sick with cancer treatment and is 30, i hope the big fella comes back and gets his health right
Spangher - 29 years old contract is up and holds no value

YOUNGER BLOKES
Bradley Hill - wants to be traded to Fremantle, unfortunate that a 23 year old with talent wants to leave, but i hope we get something for him
Will Langford - has a contract until 2019, if he didnt he might be dropped off of the list, has gone backwards in development
Billy Hartung - if he stays he will get more opportunity with Hill leaving, i wouldnt be surprised if we traded him
Angus Litherland - i think his time is up at HFC
Tim O'Brien - got another year on his contract, doubt he will stay after that
Jono O'Rourke - needs to prove why he was drafted at pick 2 soon
Willsmore - holds no value
Webster - holds no value

so those are the Challenges for the HFC going forward, hopefully they are brave enough to make the tough decisions going forward so we dont drop off too hard in coming years

Harshest. Dumbest analysis in a long time

 

[Hawkflag]

Your Birchall, Hodge and Gibson memories are fallacies and the thread loses all credibility as a result.

Hodge battled injuries through this year but still came back to be BOG last week for us and he was one of the few who kept trying last night. This 'last few years' nonsense is just utter crap. Hodge had a fantastic season in 2014 and 2015 - in which he won a Norm Smith and came bloody c lose to winning another. Get him fit for next year and he still offers plenty for what will likely be a swan song season that he's more than deserved.

Birchall - I'd be repeating myself - but this drop off over 'years' is again absolute bollocks. Had poor end to the season - but he was still one of our most consistent prior to that.

Gibson had some cracking games at the start of the season. Came off the boil a bit which I dare say is due to injuries more than form itself. Again, a good off/pre season and there is no reason why we should doubt that he can go around again.

I just love that after being in 5 straight prelims, 6 straight top 4 finishes, 4 straight grand finals and 3 straight premierships that apparently we have all these players that have apparently been on the slide for 'years'. Amazing really that we didn't finish bottom 4 the way some are taking.

Yep

 

[HawthornHawk]

Just curious - this Josh Gibson that everyone is lining up to sink the boot into - is he the same one who had 184 1%ers this year??

Sure but you can't deny that his form fell off a cliff after the second Demons game

 

[threesixpio]

Forgot the first half of the year did we

Agreed! Poppy was sensational the first half. Best bunch of games in a row he's ever played. I swear some people don't actually watch Hawthorn play

 

[Thaihawk]

I think the big difference between Vickery and the other guys we've brought in from other clubs (that have turned out - Dew, Lake, Gibson, Burgoyne), is that they've all, at one time or another, played exceptionally well at other clubs before we got them.

Vickery has never done this. Even Big Boy had big wraps on him at one point in his career.

Must have flashed past that point so quickly, I missed it.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

Must have flashed past that point so quickly, I missed it.

How do you think we'll go next year Thaihawk? Even if we do land said JOM,Mitchel and Vickery? I have my doubts we'll land all three..it maybe 2 of them and another rabbit out of hat. Apart from those trades in the mix...given we lost 4 of our last 6 and we looked to have been bullied with speed of hand and foot in the midfield by the Dogs, Melbourne and Collingwood even. Whats the feeling from you about our ladder position next year?

 

[Thaihawk]

How do you think we'll go next year Thaihawk? Even if we do land said JOM,Mitchel and Vickery? I have my doubts we'll land all three..it maybe 2 of them and another rabbit out of hat. Apart from those trades in the mix...given we lost 4 of our last 6 and we looked to have been bullied with speed of hand and foot in the midfield by the Dogs, Melbourne and Collingwood even. Whats the feeling from you about our ladder position next year?

Too difficult to say where we might finish at this point in time.If we get a fit JOM, and are able to get Mitchell also,our midfield improves. Add Burton. and Howe (I am a fan of him) and we are adding quality to our list. However, I still think we need a mobile ruckman who can take multiple grabs around the ground, as well as give our mids good supply at stoppages.

One thing that will help us is the fact our break starts now, and not in two weeks time as it has for the past four years. As I have said in other posts, we have had longer and harder seasons than the other clubs, and I believe this a factor in the drop off in form of some of our ageing heroes, Gibbo and Birch in particular.

There are so many things yet to factor in, such as who we lose, and whether we go for any mature age recruits, as well as the draw. However I would be very disappointed if we don't play finals again in 2017.

Do you think we can play finals next year,H_H?