The Law PSO's - what the hell?

[Power Raid]

The majority of regular train users such as myself are very happy to see them on the platforms and trains.

I am a big fan of guards

sure they will make mistakes but they are necessary to provide protection and safety. Every train station, train and bus should have guards who are also responsible for cleaning and maintenance as well as safety.

 

[jellyroo]

Does revenue generated from fines go to the state or to Yarra Trams/Metlink?

To the state, although the companies get an "administration fee" for each fine.... according to the Victorian Public transport website. The actual amount of the fee isn't mentioned though...

 

[Bobby K]

The majority of regular train users such as myself are very happy to see them on the platforms and trains.

I agreed. Until I got hassled for sitting on the steps at Melbourne central train station. Another time told to put my litter in the bin.... while it was still partially wrapped on the food I was eating. I've seen them go 16 year olds for running on the platform and riding their skateboards.

But on Saturday night in an outer Melbourne suburb when harassed by young adults looking for a fight that was narrowly avoided there were no PSO to be seen. They have them on the wrong stations and the reason is the bigger stations are in full view of the public to see that we have PSO's and were making it safer for everyone. But in the good old traditional trouble spots along the outer suburbs there just not there.

 

[Power Raid]

I agreed. Until I got hassled for sitting on the steps at Melbourne central train station. Another time told to put my litter in the bin.... while it was still partially wrapped on the food I was eating. I've seen them go 16 year olds for running on the platform and riding their skateboards.

But on Saturday night in an outer Melbourne suburb when harassed by young adults looking for a fight that was narrowly avoided there were no PSO to be seen. They have them on the wrong stations and the reason is the bigger stations are in full view of the public to see that we have PSO's and were making it safer for everyone. But in the good old traditional trouble spots along the outer suburbs there just not there.

yeah they can be dicks some times.

that said, they may have just been testing your response.

 

[Bobby K]

yeah they can be dicks some times.

that said, they may have just been testing your response.

If they have nothing better to do than test my response than are they really needed at all?

 

[Power Raid]

If they have nothing better to do than test my response than are they really needed at all?

Obviously you would know the situation better but may be from their perspective:

- young person
- loitering
- he seems ok but let's test before moving on

"ooii, you will put that rubbish in the bin right?"

response
"?????" or "ok?" or "I'm still eating but sure" and they move on

or
"F.O.Cs" and they have flushed out a trouble maker


I think we have all be victims of Police, PSOs or other authority thus I can sympathise.

 

[Tommy Pierrepoint]

I think we have all be victims of Police, PSOs or other authority thus I can sympathise.

Your only a "victim" if you deserve to be. Don't do anything wrong and they don't do anything to you.

 

[radiojake]

Your only a "victim" if you deserve to be. Don't do anything wrong and they don't do anything to you.

This statement reeks of naiveity

 

[Tommy Pierrepoint]

This statement reeks of naiveity

Show me an example in Victoria of the contrary in the last 5 years?

 

[radiojake]

Show me an example in Victoria of the contrary in the last 5 years?

Mate, I don't go around filming all of my interactions and putting them on youtube -

I've experienced enough to know that your statement is full of it...

 

[Tulip]

I feel a lot safer when I'm out knowing they're there.

However, the ones that work at my station are absolute sticklers for the rules.

I've seen people being issued official warnings for smoking against the back wall of the building, because there is a small amount of roof there. Surely a 'please take it elsewhere' is better than taking down all their details.

I've had one take down all my details and check my concession card, just to make sure I'm legal.

 

[Tulip]

You would have made an excellent capo at Auschwitz.

Oh please. The bloke isn't right, in my view, but he has a point.

The rules are to touch on and off, so touch on and off. The other day in the city, I forgot to touch on after topping up - I politely explained what happened to a Metro officer and he waved me through.

The rules are to keep your feet of the seats, so keep your feet of the seats.

There will always be rogue cops, but that doesn't mean the industry is corrupt.

I find it fairly offensive that you've compared PT fines to systematic genocide and murder.

 

[Slax]

I can't believe how f***ed the PSO system is. We have PSO's on train station platforms 7 nights a week, but one place where there was always a high risk of an incident we don't have them. Nightrider buses have always been known for drunks and some colourful language, so you'd think you'd want to have plenty of security around the buses, but no, it's better to stick PSO's at places like Camberwell station where you're more likely to get hit by a walking stick than a thug.

I've never minded the idea of targeting some stations, but all stations is a joke, especially when you don't have at least 4 roaming the Nightrider bus stops where incidents actually happen.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/st-kilda-woman-beaten-up-on-rowdy-bus-20130825-2sjda.html

 

[Bobby K]

I can't believe how f***ed the PSO system is. We have PSO's on train station platforms 7 nights a week, but one place where there was always a high risk of an incident we don't have them. Nightrider buses have always been known for drunks and some colourful language, so you'd think you'd want to have plenty of security around the buses, but no, it's better to stick PSO's at places like Camberwell station where you're more likely to get hit by a walking stick than a thug.

I've never minded the idea of targeting some stations, but all stations is a joke, especially when you don't have at least 4 roaming the Nightrider bus stops where incidents actually happen.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/st-kilda-woman-beaten-up-on-rowdy-bus-20130825-2sjda.html

Actually I've never felt threatened on a night rider and I'm a frequent user. I've only seen one person yelling at a driver to go the right way (Which he was) once in several years. But yes if there going to have PSO' on stations night rider stops would be logical as well. Perhaps the guy who seems interested in watching me eat my hamburger at Melbourne Central can be redeployed.

 

[AM]

I suppose the rationale is that if you are going to have them there, they may as well be empowered to issue fines for any infringements they see.

Can anybody provide a bit more information on what powers PSOs have? My frame of reference is the grey-uniformed Transit Officers in NSW. They are there in a duel enforcement/protection role. However they don't have powers of search/arrest, can't demand identification, don't carry firearms, and can only issue fines for rail-related offences.

Even so there have been repeated concerns about the conduct of TOs by the Ombudsman. As a result they are slowly being phased out and replaced with police officers.

The PSOs in Victoria seems to me like a poorly thought-out initiative. They strike me as cut-price policemen, much the same as transit cops in the US used to be. Even the US eventually realised that this wasn't a great attitude to have towards people carrying firearms, and transit police have gradually been absorbed into the 'proper' police departments over the last few decades. I am not sure why we are going in the other direction.

http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find...ansport-offences/protective-services-officers

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Your only a "victim" if you deserve to be. Don't do anything wrong and they don't do anything to you.

This is clearly not true.

 

[Slax]

Actually I've never felt threatened on a night rider and I'm a frequent user. I've only seen one person yelling at a driver to go the right way (Which he was) once in several years. But yes if there going to have PSO' on stations night rider stops would be logical as well. Perhaps the guy who seems interested in watching me eat my hamburger at Melbourne Central can be redeployed.

Just don't get the one from Macleod station, would struggle to chase down Clive Palmer

 

[The Passenger]

This is clearly not true.

it's only true to those who happily gobble up everything that gets spoonfed to them

 

[jiphoc]

I admit I don't catch PT all that often but knowing in advance I was going to have a few lagers anyway, playing it safe and getting PT home. Just seen a taxi driver issued a fine outside of Flinders ST issued a fine for pulling up, with engine idling waiting to get in the popular taxi queue outside of Flinders St, as far as I'm aware from your bullshit PR promos that ain't your ******* job!!

I actually approached the cabbie and asked what it was all about and was then approached by two PSO's telling me to leave it alone.

I didn't mind this initiative (though guns are overkill) but in honesty, just another fee collecting, overpowered assholes.

**** you VIC Libs, complete abuse of power!? Poor bloke was just trying to do a shitty job with
Bugger all protection and you deal him this, disgraceful.

Bugger off mate. I live on a dangerous line and I love the fact that the stations now have PSO's. It has become a hell of a lot safer to travel at night now days as gangs have started not hanging around train stations as much as they did before. I have seen a whole range of violence on trains. From guys being king hit, to gang retaliation through to a random throwing a full stubby at a guys head (just missed his head). Now along comes along flogs like you telling them off? This is the best imitative the public transport has bought in during the 8 years I have been using public transport.

 

[Damon_3388]

only related due to fines, but I got a BS parking fine for parking in a spot which was perfectly fine, and had absilutley no indication that a fine would be issued for parkign there. Since recieving the fine I have been scouting the location,a nd every secod day there is a car parked in the same spot. There is no suprise that there isn't a no parking sign there; they would make a fortune off it.

I wouldn't mind so much, but the fine was $141, which is completley insane. I would cop less trying to illegally smuggle banned food items through customs.

It's just unethical revenue raising, and it doesn't matter how cautious or respectful you are. They will get you every now and then.

Parking fines (and fare evasion fines) are so disproportionately large in relation to the actual "crime" being commited it's not funny.

 

[830SCD]

Parking fines (and fare evasion fines) are so disproportionately large in relation to the actual "crime" being commited it's not funny.

probably a good incentive not to do it then?
its a voluntary fine...

 

[DivideandMultiply]

NSW and not Melbourne, however it shows how completely and irresponsibly out of whack priorities are. PSO's are a good idea on troubled lines, but this kind of force and unwarranted brutality should in now way be part of ticket checks by police.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-ch...-students-leg-over-ticket-20130923-2uaau.html

A group of police officers who allegedly broke the leg of an arts student and told her ''we don't care if it's legal'' have been allowed to change their defence at the eleventh hour after CCTV footage of the assault emerged.

Ms Gardner claims that when she protested that one of the tourists was being pinned to the ground by a transit officer, Acting Sergeant Craig Sands kicked both her legs out from under her, breaking her right leg.
In her statement of claim, it is alleged Sergeant Sands then directed a transit officer to sit on her while she was lying face down on the platform before she was handcuffed, told she was under arrest and put in a paddy wagon.
When she objected to what she believed was an unlawful arrest, an officer said ''we don't care if this is legal'', the statement said. Ms Gardner was not taken to a police station and charged. Instead, she was driven to Sutherland railway station and ''left to fend for herself in a seriously injured condition''.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-ch...-students-leg-over-ticket-20130923-2uaau.html

 

[And_ROOS]

That is messed up. The fact they dumped her at another station and not the cop shops is basically admitting guilt. Hope she sues the **** out of her.

 

[jiphoc]

While in public you have to produce ID when asked. If you fail to produce ID you can be arrested until you can produce ID or Police can verify who you are via other means. If the lady in this case sounds to have failed to produce ID and resisted arrest. The police will likely get charged as they slightly (well not sightly) abused their power.

 

[skilts]

While in public you have to produce ID when asked. If you fail to produce ID you can be arrested until you can produce ID or Police can verify who you are via other means. If the lady in this case sounds to have failed to produce ID and resisted arrest. The police will likely get charged as they slightly (well not sightly) abused their power.

There is no mention in that article of the woman who was violently crippled by police being unable or unwilling to produce identification. Were you there? Do you know something the journalist, barristers and judge don't?