Review R1: The Good, Bad and Ugly vs. St Kilda

[Eric The Red]

I really want him to succeed.

But would he really be out there if he wasn’t pick 8 a year ago?

We took Tex off for the sole purpose of giving Curtin more space to get the ball (and he didn’t, not really). Didn’t really impact the game where we won by 10 goals.

If by round 3 we don’t see a ‘break out game’ then you’d have to send him back to SANFL. And if that happens, I expect him to leave at seasons end for a packet of chips to WA.

Happy to be proven wrong. Trust me. But the fact I’m celebrating when he touches the ball (not even does something good) is… concerning.

Didn’t Curtin go the halfback/wing when Tex came off? I didn’t think he took Tex‘s spot.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Didn’t Curtin go the halfback/wing when Tex came off? I didn’t think he took Tex‘s spot.

High forward and some wing

 

[Eric The Red]

About as perfect of a first round as you can ask for.

Good:

Fogarty and Thilthorpe got to match up against an undersized and undermanned defense and made hay when the sun shined. 7 goals, 3 goal assists and 15 score involvements is a monstrous game from the pair.
Soligo continued on his preseason form. 29 disposals/5 clearances/1 goal/2 goal assists/8 score involvements/8 tackles is just a serious game.
Dawson was electric throughout the game. Also we got ~1100 meters gained from Dawson and Soligo which is some serious territory gain.
I thought Keane and Murray were really solid defensively, and with decent ball movement. Keane in particular had a game with 21 disposals and 9 intercepts.
Speaking of defenders that had a big game, Worrell was big offensively. Not too many days an intercept defender picks up 7 score involvements and 5 score launches.
ABV had a big debut. 20 disposals/26 pressure acts/4 tackles/9 score involvements.
I thought that was ROB best game for a while. His best is not going to be outstanding, but seemed willing to throw his weight around and be aggressive.
Hinge and Michaelanny played well. Pretty typical performances from the two.
Rankine is such a freak that I came away from a 2 goal/28 disposal/7 clearance game and think there is another gear there. Some team is going to get utterly belted by him this year if he stays healthy.
I could get used to that kind of Rory Laird back in defense. Just an all round solid game from the fridge.
Draper looked good in his limited run. Seems ready for AFL football, though I assume we're a bit worried about his body holding up.
Finally, that was a statement game from Rachele. 2 goals, 4 goal assists, 12 score involvements off 21 disposals. I for one hope this is the breakout campaign.

Average/other thoughts/Curtin Watch.

May be worth keeping an eye on Keays as it looks like he's struggling to adjust to ABV taking out his role as the defensive midfielder. Still racks the ball up, and does the Murphy role better than Murphy does, but was pretty nowhere defensively.
Probably good for Peatling, Cummings and Milera they got through this game. All had their moments throughout and our midfield looks a fair bit better with Peatling dynamism.
Curtin had a couple of nice moments, with two contested marks (one stripped due to a downfield free kick) and that nice burst play. This period is just about sticking fat with him as he adjusts to AFL football as there is a player there.
Tex had a good first half, but was the right call to sub.

Coaching and structure looked rather good, but it's hard to gauge with how battered the Saints were due to injuries. Seemed like we didn't get pinned for long stretches in our back 50 which occurred last year, and were able to effectively pin the Saints for extended times. Ball movement was also rather quick, though you could see the lack of chemistry between our midfield in the early parts of the game.
Also, we smothered and generated a lot of dirty ball moving forwards, which is something that will hold up against good teams.

Bad:
Nuthin.

All in all, no complaints here.

Good summary.

 

[Eric The Red]

I couldn't believe Laird had 29 disposals. I barely noticed him.

That would be because he didn’t turn the ball over in this game. Then you would have noticed him

 

[Eric The Red]

He was close

He’d be unreal with us

Only issue with that is that it might keep Nank out of the side. I think we need to eventually find a permanent spot for him.

 

[Eric The Red]

I watched the second half and that was the better half in terms of moving the ball forward. He was -11 metres gained at half time, negative eleven. Unless the first half was a damn sight better, it all adds up to a terrible game, given the rationale for his selection.

I thought last quarter was easily our worst in terms of ball movement.

 

[Cromulant]

Only issue with that is that it might keep Nank out of the side. I think we need to eventually find a permanent spot for him.

Laird and Milera out, Nank and NWM in.

Simple.

 

[feenix67]

Massive upgrade for mine

And kicks goals

Will never be a polished ball user and that’s fine as brings so much else , didn’t turn it over as you say

I mean, this is just laughable. Berry has Peatling covered in just about every meaningful stat.

Im a fan of Peatling, but let's stick with reality shall we?

 

[Eric The Red]

Something I said to my partner as we were watching the game yesterday; there were quite a few goals where we seemed to just get it forward, and almost walk it in. We made mistakes, and still somehow managed to end up with some pretty easy goals. It wasn't quite witches-hat stuff, but it wasn't far off.
Sure it was great to watch, but let's not be too seduced, as the quality of Oppo was poor.
It's a good base to start from though, no doubt.

They are the rewards a team should get with good leg speed and a high pressure game.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I mean, this is just laughable. Berry has Peatling covered in just about every meaningful stat.

Im a fan of Peatling, but let's stick with reality shall we?

Watch the damn games

Peatling doesn’t fumble every second possession, for starters

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Hilarious to read folks here wanting to shit on the win because St Kilda had 7 players out.

Seven?

It was Phillippou and Max King. Michito Owens is okay but went backwards last year. Then who? Dan Butler? Liam Henry? None of the players they had out matter.

They were underdone. But that's also just what their side is. All you can do is beat who's in front of you, and we did that well.

It was a great team win. That said, I’m still keeping the lid on not necessarily because of how I think the Saints do this year but because we objectively know their gamestyle is so different to the top teams.

The question marks I have over our lineup (ie the three KPF + Curtin being too slow and Laird/Milera not offering enough exit from D50) remain because we’ve yet to see it against a team that prioritises the ground-ball with speed and skill (as most would call the “modern game”).

Not taking anything from the win - we did what we had to, and we’ll just have to keep doing that until our game-plan is up against “the modern game”.

 

[wimpy]

Curtin was terrible. Ran around like a headless chook. Got his first touches very close to half time when he took two marks in defence, not up forward.
He doesn't appear to have football instinct and doesn't want to impose himself in any situations.
At the time he was drafted November 2023 will already had committed to picking up Keane. We had Butts, Murray, Worrell and Michalanney. At that time, Himmelberg was also being talked about being turned in to a defender.
At the 2023 draft, Curtin was touted as a tall defender, we just didn't need another tall defender. Also the game was changing from playing three tall forwards to two so there was less need for another tall defender, we enough.
I thought there was an old football saying " don't pick a tall defender early in the draft, you can always find one later on or turn one of your tall forwards in to a tall defender (we found Murray playing country football in NSW). This saying should have been applied also to the drafting of MacAsey at six, what a waste, don't get me started.
Also people were seduced by the odd comments and junior efforts of Curtin at being a big body mid fielder, I would rather have a smaller mid fielder like Serong or Neale that actually can give you value for the sake of being able to say "we have a big bodied mid fielder".
For me to become a Curtin fan he will have to improve a hell of a lot. Please feel free to shoot me down about Curtin and why the Crows needed to draft a tall defender at that time, now we are stuck with a player that we moved up in the draft for and now don't know where to play him. Also you can have a go at me for my thoughts on the drafting of MacAsey.

 

[Coopers]

I don't think these stats tell the whole story of his impact yesterday.
What were his score involvements in the other 3 years.

2022. 8.
2023. 9.
2024. 8.

2025. 12.

Clearly better.

He really did rip it up right at the start of the game. I think the first 3 or 4 goals were either his, or ones he created directly, with a good pass/handball. Really set the tone, right at the important part of the game. Kept doing it too. Great game.

Saints were always behind from there, and Rankine and Dawson then just crushed the life out of them.

 

[Golumless]

Curtin was terrible. Ran around like a headless chook. Got his first touches very close to half time when he took two marks in defence, not up forward.
He doesn't appear to have football instinct and doesn't want to impose himself in any situations.
At the time he was drafted November 2023 will already had committed to picking up Keane. We had Butts, Murray, Worrell and Michalanney. At that time, Himmelberg was also being talked about being turned in to a defender.
At the 2023 draft, Curtin was touted as a tall defender, we just didn't need another tall defender. Also the game was changing from playing three tall forwards to two so there was less need for another tall defender, we enough.
I thought there was an old football saying " don't pick a tall defender early in the draft, you can always find one later on or turn one of your tall forwards in to a tall defender (we found Murray playing country football in NSW). This saying should have been applied also to the drafting of MacAsey at six, what a waste, don't get me started.
Also people were seduced by the odd comments and junior efforts of Curtin at being a big body mid fielder, I would rather have a smaller mid fielder like Serong or Neale that actually can give you value for the sake of being able to say "we have a big bodied mid fielder".
For me to become a Curtin fan he will have to improve a hell of a lot. Please feel free to shoot me down about Curtin and why the Crows needed to draft a tall defender at that time, now we are stuck with a player that we moved up in the draft for and now don't know where to play him. Also you can have a go at me for my thoughts on the drafting of MacAsey.

That is a misread of how football is developing. Yes, there is a push to move from three tall forwards to two, however that has no impact whatsoever on the third tall defender position (which is an offensive position). That position is where you put one of your best interceptors to start offensive chains. The move from three tall forwards to two is more that teams are shrugging their shoulders and saying they don't have the cattle to counter the third tall defender role, and need to focus on defensive pressure to limit the damage. Intercepting power is king after all.

The reason to select Curtin was that he is a unicorn of a profile, and likely had one of the highest ceiling of anyone on the draft board at that point. Higher risk too seeing he had only played a handful of games in the midfield, but equally, Adelaide had room to swing for the fences in the 2023 draft.

 

[jenny61_99]

I mean, this is just laughable. Berry has Peatling covered in just about every meaningful stat.

Im a fan of Peatling, but let's stick with reality shall we?

Berry's disposal isn't as clean as Peatling.

 

[NSolis]

I mean, this is just laughable. Berry has Peatling covered in just about every meaningful stat.

Im a fan of Peatling, but let's stick with reality shall we?

Which stats? They look very similar to me statistically.

Last year Berry played 18 games for 13.8 disposals, 1.4 marks, 0.2 goals, 5.1 tackles and 3.6 clearances per game.
Peatling played 19 games for 13.8 disposals, 1.7 marks, 0.4 goals, 5.1 tackles and 3.4 clearances per game.

Peatling was sub a bit more than Berry (though both were sub quite a lot - Peatling 7 times and Berry 5 times) and kicked 7 goals to Berry's 4. From watching them I'd say Peatling is obviously is quicker and more agile, while Berry is an elite tackler. Can't really see how Berry has Peatling covered in just about every stat though.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I mean, this is just laughable. Berry has Peatling covered in just about every meaningful stat.

Im a fan of Peatling, but let's stick with reality shall we?

you prefer berry as a player to Peatling.....

not sure you've got too many on your side

if you're looking at purely stats you're obvs not looking at fact peatling's are heavily skewed by sub appearances

and if you are looking with your eyes its even worse, Peatling has so many more weapons for AFL than Berry eg speed, agility, clean ground balls, versatility, goalkicking

compliments our side much more than Berry and has genuine identifyable afl weapons

 

[ABAB]

Which stats? They look very similar to me statistically.

Last year Berry played 18 games for 13.8 disposals, 1.4 marks, 0.2 goals, 5.1 tackles and 3.6 clearances per game.
Peatling played 19 games for 13.8 disposals, 1.7 marks, 0.4 goals, 5.1 tackles and 3.4 clearances per game.

Peatling was sub a bit more than Berry (though both were sub quite a lot - Peatling 7 times and Berry 5 times) and kicked 7 goals to Berry's 4. From watching them I'd say Peatling is obviously is quicker and more agile, while Berry is an elite tackler. Can't really see how Berry has Peatling covered in just about every stat though.

He probably mean career stats, Berry was very good early in his career but has started to trend downward and even worst when he somehow started to fumble a lot half way through last year whereas Peatling is on the uptrend.

 

[NSolis]

I guess if the argument is that 2022 Berry was ahead of 2022 Peatling that's fine. I'd have thought last year was pretty relevant though, as both were in a similar spot as being a fringe midfielder who played most of the year along with being a regular sub.

 

[Coopers]

I mean, this is just laughable. Berry has Peatling covered in just about every meaningful stat.

Im a fan of Peatling, but let's stick with reality shall we?

Wut?

Like I guess he does, other than... actual effectiveness. But they aren't really going for the same position. It's Crouch keeping Berry out of the team, not Peatling.

 

[wimpy]

That is a misread of how football is developing. Yes, there is a push to move from three tall forwards to two, however that has no impact whatsoever on the third tall defender position (which is an offensive position). That position is where you put one of your best interceptors to start offensive chains. The move from three tall forwards to two is more that teams are shrugging their shoulders and saying they don't have the cattle to counter the third tall defender role, and need to focus on defensive pressure to limit the damage. Intercepting power is king after all.

The reason to select Curtin was that he is a unicorn of a profile, and likely had one of the highest ceiling of anyone on the draft board at that point. Higher risk too seeing he had only played a handful of games in the midfield, but equally, Adelaide had room to swing for the fences in the 2023 draft.

But the Crows already had Worrell and Michalanney as developing interceptors and offensive initiators.
This "Unicorn" rubbish is a fallacy. Ever heard of the saying "Jack of all trades master of none." These tried and tested sayings are still around today because they are basically true, and that's what I see in Curtin. Find me a specialist any time.

 

[Cromulant]

Curtin was terrible. Ran around like a headless chook. Got his first touches very close to half time when he took two marks in defence, not up forward.
He doesn't appear to have football instinct and doesn't want to impose himself in any situations.
At the time he was drafted November 2023 will already had committed to picking up Keane. We had Butts, Murray, Worrell and Michalanney. At that time, Himmelberg was also being talked about being turned in to a defender.
At the 2023 draft, Curtin was touted as a tall defender, we just didn't need another tall defender. Also the game was changing from playing three tall forwards to two so there was less need for another tall defender, we enough.
I thought there was an old football saying " don't pick a tall defender early in the draft, you can always find one later on or turn one of your tall forwards in to a tall defender (we found Murray playing country football in NSW). This saying should have been applied also to the drafting of MacAsey at six, what a waste, don't get me started.
Also people were seduced by the odd comments and junior efforts of Curtin at being a big body mid fielder, I would rather have a smaller mid fielder like Serong or Neale that actually can give you value for the sake of being able to say "we have a big bodied mid fielder".
For me to become a Curtin fan he will have to improve a hell of a lot. Please feel free to shoot me down about Curtin and why the Crows needed to draft a tall defender at that time, now we are stuck with a player that we moved up in the draft for and now don't know where to play him. Also you can have a go at me for my thoughts on the drafting of MacAsey.

Huge misread of the talent of the kid first of all.

 

[wimpy]

Huge misread of the talent of the kid first of all.

I have yet to see a semblance of his talent, my main gripe is WHY DID WE DRAFT HIM.

 

[skam85]

bro's getting 2021 McAsey confused with Dan Curtin

 

[feenix67]

Berry's disposal isn't as clean as Peatling.

Higher career disposal efficiency...