Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[Themanbun]

No we don't. We almost do but we don't yet.

Unfortunately the most important element for a totalitarian state - ie the totality - the support from the population for an authoritarian ruler not a government, is in place.

As is the police state powers including arbitrary arrest, unlimited detention and a plethora of rules to encourage secrecy and discourage transparent criticism of government are in place but the general mindset of the population - that we're a free country - is still there. Its only that contradictory nature of our public "national personality" or whatever you want to call it that holds back the tide of totalitarianism.

Plus judicial review.



Ask Mohammad Haneef. He was innocent and would have been railroaded under terrorism charges on the basis of nothing for political gain, in the lead up to a federal election. However the Federal Court (didn't even get as far as the high court) threw the case out amid some brutal criticism of the incumbent government.

The same judicial review that just a few days ago ruled that public servants anonymously liking tweets even remotely critical of government policy (and with no temporal relativity) can constitute a sackable offence?

 

[Val Keating]

Monsanto are campaigners. But an even bigger problem is the way corporates are developing intelligence services to match governments and private military organisations like the infamous Dyncrop, Blackwater and Sandline are/were growing big enough to provide them with the sort of military support governments get.

It’s funny how everyone goes on about how far left silicone valley is and especially google (which they certainly are) yet were able to be bought by Monsanto to help their campaign of discrediting the journalist that wrote whitewash. Sweet lady capitalism.

 

[ferball]

That’s what’s interesting about the Brazil case study, history and politics in motion.

I don't think much of Bolsonaro but Brasil's political history has its moments. Their version of communism/fascism from the 1930s is potentially interesting as well. [There are some elements of fascism I don't mind (that'll cause a stir) - but the authoritarianism and violent suppression of difference is not one of them. Corporatism isn't always a bad thing. We wouldn't have had unions or the evolution of fair pay and working conditions without it for example. If the nation was a corporation and we all got dividends based on the GDP then all the division and jealousy that comes from paying dole bludgers less than poverty line money would be gone.]

And at one point the Portugese monarchy moved its court there. Unfortunately their recent (ie post ww2) history has some pretty oppressive moments and I suspect this new government will follow that example.

The class war against the underclass in Brasil is a shit thing and has its origins in anti slavery and anti portugese movements going back centuries.

 

[ferball]

The same judicial review that just a few days ago ruled that public servants anonymously liking tweets even remotely critical of government policy (and with no temporal relativity) can constitute a sackable offence?

Sorry - what was this?

 

[ferball]

It’s funny how everyone goes on about how far left silicone valley is and especially google (which they certainly are) yet were able to be bought by Monsanto to help their campaign of discrediting the journalist that wrote whitewash. Sweet lady capitalism.

Silicone valley is where all the right wing Libertarians come from isn't it?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I don't think much of Bolsonaro but Brasil's political history has its moments. Their version of communism/fascism from the 1930s is potentially interesting as well. [There are some elements of fascism I don't mind (that'll cause a stir) - but the authoritarianism and violent suppression of difference is not one of them. Corporatism isn't always a bad thing. We wouldn't have had unions or the evolution of fair pay and working conditions without it for example. If the nation was a corporation and we all got dividends based on the GDP then all the division and jealousy that comes from paying dole bludgers less than poverty line money would be gone.]

And at one point the Portugese monarchy moved its court there. Unfortunately their recent (ie post ww2) history has some pretty oppressive moments and I suspect this new government will follow that example.

The class war against the underclass in Brasil is a s**t thing and has its origins in anti slavery and anti portugese movements going back centuries.

South America over the last 200 years, as a whole, is fascinating to study from an outsider's political perspective.

 

[Del191229]

Absolutely. I wonder if in hundreds of years people will be studying these corporations like we study ancient empires like the Romans and the Khans.

We can learn from history here - the East India Company being a prime example.

 

[ferball]

South America over the last 200 years, as a whole, is fascinating to study from an outsider's political perspective.

And even before that. Its an amazing place from so many different perspectives.

 

[Themanbun]

Sorry - what was this?

The high court just upheld the sacking of someone working in the APS who from an anonymous account criticised government border policy.

In their decision, they even went as far as to say using an anonymous account to 'like' a tweet which could be perceived as critical of the government of the day's policy (by inference, it's possible that with a change in government, a tweet or post that was positive of the former government's policy could retrospectively be used to justify termination if a new government were to introduce a contradictory policy) would be enough to justify termination. The argument was run in regards to the implied freedom of political communication.

The only limit they imposed to this was to say that 'not liking' a tweet or post could not be used to justify termination.

Just because we have a judiciary does not mean that we are immune from moves towards totalitarianism. If people could lose their livelihood for expressing a political opinion critical of government in any other country we'd be screaming totalitarianism.

 

[ferball]

Just on South America and from a completely different POV.

Check out Terra Preta.

Especially if you are into gardening.

 

[ferball]

The high court just upheld the sacking of someone working in the APS who from an anonymous account criticised government border policy.

In their decision, they even went as far as to say using an anonymous account to 'like' a tweet which could be perceived as critical of the government of the day's policy (by inference, it's possible that with a change in government, a tweet or post that was positive of the former government's policy could retrospectively be used to justify termination if a new government were to introduce a contradictory policy) would be enough to justify termination. The argument was run in regards to the implied freedom of political communication.

The only limit they imposed to this was to say that 'not liking' a tweet or post could not be used to justify termination.

Just because we have a judiciary does not mean that we are immune from moves towards totalitarianism. If people could lose their livelihood for expressing a political opinion critical of government in any other country we'd be screaming totalitarianism.

****. That is ****ed up.

Have you got a link to the judgement or something?

 

[Del191229]

Our High Court is a wet limp lettuce leaf.

We live in a totalitarian society.

The same High Court that overturned VicPols attempt to cover up their enormous corruption re Gobbo?

And having been to actual totalitarian societies, the sort of with pictures of the dictators everywhere and armed internal security police on every corner, nah, we really don't.

 

[Themanbun]

fu**. That is f’ed up.

Have you got a link to the judgement or something?

Case ref: Comcare v Banerji [2019] HCA 23

ABC report: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/11377990

 

[ferball]

I've been reading up on that case and we need a Bill of Rights for sure.

She should go to the UN.

 

[ferball]

Case ref: Comcare v Banerji [2019] HCA 23

ABC report: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/11377990

Cheers.

 

[Val Keating]

Silicone valley is where all the right wing Libertarians come from isn't it?

Isn’t it where all the lefty tech gurus are?

 

[Themanbun]

I've been reading up on that case and we need a Bill of Rights for sure.

She should go to the UN.

UN stuff is irrelevant here unless we pass it into law ourselves.

This is just tip of the iceberg stuff. Courts have upheld the deportation of student and/or visa workers if they dare complain about workplace exploitation. That shit just gets glossed over by the vast majority of the population.

We may not be as bad as some places, sure, in terms of forcing the population into compliance and obedience. But there are a lot of structural factors which practically attain similar results.

 

[ferball]

UN stuff is irrelevant here unless we pass it into law ourselves.

This is just tip of the iceberg stuff. Courts have upheld the deportation of student and/or visa workers if they dare complain about workplace exploitation. That s**t just gets glossed over by the vast majority of the population.

We may not be as bad as some places, sure, in terms of forcing the population into compliance and obedience. But there are a lot of structural factors which practically attain similar results.

Toonan's case made us change the law. That's what I was talking about.

Since Howard was elected and even really since the wages accord under Hawke workers rights in this country have been under constant attack.

The idea that employee contracts can give employers some control over what happens with an employee outside their employment is ****en ridiculous. Its essentially the beginning of slavery.

 

[Val Keating]

I don’t smoke weed anymore, but man can’t wait till it’s legal in Australia do hotels start doing this....

Spoiler

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[ferball]

I don’t smoke weed anymore, but man can’t wait till it’s legal in Australia do hotels start doing this....

Spoiler

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Where is his DMT?

 

[Val Keating]

Where is his DMT?

I’m sure he’d have it safely tucked away

 

[Snake_Baker]

The same High Court that overturned VicPols attempt to cover up their enormous corruption re Gobbo?

And having been to actual totalitarian societies, the sort of with pictures of the dictators everywhere and armed internal security police on every corner, nah, we really don't.

They may as well not have courts if they let that one through.

 

[Del191229]

They may as well not have courts if they let that one through.

You see what I mean about us not being a totalitarian society.

At the same time we are rapidly building to create one.

The next three decades will be critical.

 

[ferball]

I think it'll be a quicker crisis than that Jean Luc.

 

[ferball]

The next 3 years will be critical and the next decade will decide it.