Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Kangaroos4eva]

 

[Del191229]

I know the following picture is bad and what the US did in Abu Ghraib was terrible but do yourselves a favour and find out what went on there when Saddam was in charge.



Not excusing what the American guards did but it’s nothing compared to

Spoiler: Details

to dissolving someone alive feet first in front of their family, or killing a cleaner at the jails children in front of her and then feeding them to the wild dogs that hung around the jail. America f’ed up but Saddam was a monster.

Yeah but Saddam didn't pretend to be anything but a brutal dictator, the US invaded claiming they were bringing peace and democracy

 

[Gasometer]

Ok Whisky lovers. Got given a bottle of this for my 50th recently, never really been a Scotch drinker after a dodgy experience with it in my teens. Will it change my opinion?

View attachment 1124850

Chuck some Pepsi with it

 

[Val Keating]

Yeah but Saddam didn't pretend to be anything but a brutal dictator, the US invaded claiming they were bringing peace and democracy

Don’t want excuses. At least the allied forces are held to a higher standard.

The question is, and only Iraqi’s can answer it, would they rather the random murders, rapes etc or what they have now. Seems obvious to us because their country is destroyed, but you need the perspective of all Iraqi, including those on the wrong side of Saddam.

From what I’ve learned the Americans got arrogant after the success of desert storm and the politicians refused requests to hit Iraq as hard, thought it was overkill. If they didntd hold back the second time the ME would be very different now

 

[Snake_Baker]

This is all starting to sound like human bars of soap stuff to me.

Propaganda folks, look it up.

 

[Val Keating]

This is all starting to sound like human bars of soap stuff to me.

Propaganda folks, look it up.

whatever youre into mate

 

[ferball]

Don’t want excuses. At least the allied forces are held to a higher standard.

The question is, and only Iraqi’s can answer it, would they rather the random murders, rapes etc or what they have now. Seems obvious to us because their country is destroyed, but you need the perspective of all Iraqi, including those on the wrong side of Saddam.

From what I’ve learned the Americans got arrogant after the success of desert storm and the politicians refused requests to hit Iraq as hard, thought it was overkill. If they didntd hold back the second time the ME would be very different now

Didn't the US forces

Spoiler

rape children in front of their mums and threaten to kill them if the family didn't co operate, in some cases kids died?

There are no good guys in all this.

 

[Val Keating]

Didn't the US forces

Spoiler

rape children in front of their mums and threaten to kill them if the family didn't co operate, in some cases kids died?

There are no good guys in all this.

Not that I’m aware of

 

[Val Keating]

Its actually real insulting to try and bring down the allied forces to that of Saddam‘s ragtime. Did we have a few rotten eggs sure, but it wasn’t ordered.

 

[ferball]

Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

Award-winning news and culture, features breaking news, in-depth reporting and criticism on politics, science, food and entertainment.

www.salon.com

 

[Val Keating]

Salon - Bias and Credibility

LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderate to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may

mediabiasfactcheck.com

The fall of Salon.com

How a digital trailblazer and progressive powerhouse lost its way.

www.politico.com

 

[Del191229]

Is M. Barnier perhaps planning a Presidential run.

 

[7577969923]

Don’t want excuses. At least the allied forces are held to a higher standard.

The question is, and only Iraqi’s can answer it, would they rather the random murders, rapes etc or what they have now. Seems obvious to us because their country is destroyed, but you need the perspective of all Iraqi, including those on the wrong side of Saddam.

From what I’ve learned the Americans got arrogant after the success of desert storm and the politicians refused requests to hit Iraq as hard, thought it was overkill. If they didntd hold back the second time the ME would be very different now

My understanding wasn't that they didn't hit Iraq hard enough. They basically sacked the entire army which then provided large numbers of trained soldiers who were highly susceptible to approaches by the various sectarian forces. The US actually managed the war quite well. The "peace" was one of history's all-time great cluster ****s. Rumsfeld and Cheney have a lot to answer for.

 

[Del191229]

Don’t want excuses. At least the allied forces are held to a higher standard.

The question is, and only Iraqi’s can answer it, would they rather the random murders, rapes etc or what they have now. Seems obvious to us because their country is destroyed, but you need the perspective of all Iraqi, including those on the wrong side of Saddam.

From what I’ve learned the Americans got arrogant after the success of desert storm and the politicians refused requests to hit Iraq as hard, thought it was overkill. If they didntd hold back the second time the ME would be very different now

You're hugely understating what the US did during the invasion and occupation.

They destroyed entire cities.

 

[Snake_Baker]

My understanding wasn't that they didn't hit Iraq hard enough. They basically sacked the entire army which then provided large numbers of trained soldiers who were highly susceptible to approaches by the various sectarian forces. The US actually managed the war quite well. The "peace" was one of history's all-time great cluster fu**s. Rumsfeld and Cheney have a lot to answer for.

SURELY people can work out that they WANTED a destabilized Iraq?

They're gangsters, not liberators.

 

[Del191229]

The horror of life under rocket attack for Israelis.

 

[Del191229]

SURELY people can work out that they WANTED a destabilized Iraq?

They're gangsters, not liberators.

Yep.

Certainly a destablised and balkanised Iraq set into perpetual religious and ethnic conflict is exactly what Israeli military planners had been wanting and planning for years.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Had a look at the Jarrad Hayne thing & I reckon it's another fabricated rape scenario.

Mother was in the house?

Pissed off that he left (text messages)?

Nah, something's not right.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

SURELY people can work out that they WANTED a destabilized Iraq?

They're gangsters, not liberators.

Disagree on the wanting destabilisation part, but not entirely wrong on the gangster front. They want a stabilised and semi-dependent ally.


Instability places the regional energy supplies in jeopardy, makes an ally in an important geostrategic spot susceptible to external influences outside the US (Iran, Russia and ISIS), and generates high volumes of refugees (which most country’s hate taking in). Instability also isn’t good for US companies or contractors over there. A stable sectarian ally also provides a friendly buffer for Israel against Iran, as well a potential launch point for future military operations in the region.

 

[Del191229]

Had a look at the Jarrad Hayne thing & I reckon it's another fabricated rape scenario.

Mother was in the house?

Pissed off that he left (text messages)?

Nah, something's not right.

Just out of interest, have there even been any legitimate rapes in your view?

I'm only going by the fact that you seem to see all the high profile cases we discuss here as set ups or fabrications.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Disagree on the wanting destabilisation part, but not entirely wrong on the gangster front. They want a stabilised and semi-dependent ally.


Instability places the regional energy supplies in jeopardy, makes an ally in an important geostrategic spot susceptible to external influences outside the US (Iran, Russia and ISIS), and generates high volumes of refugees (which most country’s hate taking in). Instability also isn’t good for US companies or contractors over there. A stable sectarian ally also provides a friendly buffer for Israel against Iran, as well a potential launch point for future military operations in the region.

You obviously don't see "independent" and "stabilized" as correlating factors.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Just out of interest, have there even been any legitimate rapes in your view?

Don't be so ****ing stupid.

Not only have I acknowledged them, I have personally acted on them.

I'm only going by the fact that you seem to see all the high profile cases we discuss here as set ups or fabrications.

Just out of interest, have there ever been any illegitimate rapes in your view?

 

[Del191229]

A stable sectarian ally also provides a friendly buffer for Israel against Iran, as well a potential launch point for future military operations in the region.

Ummmmm, this is exactly what they had for decades, I recall Saddam fighting a long and brutal war against Iran supported by the West.

Israeli security doctrine called for the fragmenting of secular Arab states like Iraq and Syria into small ethnic/religious principalties that would be perpetually at war with each other and unable to threaten Israel.

That's what happened in Iraq and almost in Syria.

 

[Del191229]

Ballymurphy Inquest: Coroner finds 10 victims were innocent

A priest and a mother of eight were among 10 people killed in Belfast after an Army operation in 1971.

www.bbc.com

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Ummmmm, this is exactly what they had for decades, I recall Saddam fighting a long and brutal war against Iran supported by the West.

Israeli security doctrine called for the fragmenting of secular Arab states like Iraq and Syria into small ethnic/religious principalties that would be perpetually at war with each other and unable to threaten Israel.

That's what happened in Iraq and almost in Syria.

Yea, but he wasn’t completely ‘their’ guy now was he. The first gulf war made that abundantly clear. He threatened the oil and other semi-dependent powers in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

That’s all well and good for Israel, but their security doctrine does little for US strategy in Iraq. In line with the reasons stated above, the yanks pissed in all those resources into state building a country largely built on their own US republican systems and they wasted at least 6 years on combating an insurgency when they could have easily have pulled out, which costed around $1.9 trillion. They don't harp about a stable global rules-based order for nothing. The policies largely failed for not so deliberate reasons, including historical ignorance. Policy intent is far different from policy results.

A destabilised Iraq, or later stabilised under a post civil war regime akin to an ISIS government, is more unpredictable and likely to attack Israel in the long-term anyway. Instability in Iraq and Syria has only increased Iranian influence and power in those countries, so great Yinon doctrine. I have major doubts that the Yinon plan was even an official doctrine, and that it was instead a far right pipe dream like Chomsky suggests. But I rather not waste our morning discussing the legitimacy of Yinon.