Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[Chadwiko]

Do the maths..

I don't have to, plenty of people already have.

Here's a report in the (conservative) SkyNews about research prepared for (conservative) Gladys Berejiklian NSW government;

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/will-be-starting-from-scratch-report-paints-grim-picture-of-australias-long-road-to-nuclear-power/news-story/dec9f44aed1e82c65f224bb5dd34a959

 

[DesertRoo]

I don't have to, plenty of people already have.

Here's a report in the (conservative) SkyNews about research prepared for (conservative) Gladys Berejiklian NSW government;

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/will-be-starting-from-scratch-report-paints-grim-picture-of-australias-long-road-to-nuclear-power/news-story/dec9f44aed1e82c65f224bb5dd34a959

Lol the story you quoted has nothing to do with the massive shortfall of power and stability of the electrical grid, unless of course you don’t mind having an unstable power system. At the very time you’re increasing the load by introducing electric cars, removing gas heating and cooking etc.

Do the math.
Basically both parties sat on their hands for years and now we are where we are. Can’t translation to renewables without decentralising cities.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

We’re not going nuclear lol


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[krakouers]

We’re not going nuclear lol


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We can, if someone posts something that sets it off

 

[ferball]

Lol the story you quoted has nothing to do with the massive shortfall of power and stability of the electrical grid, unless of course you don’t mind having an unstable power system. At the very time you’re increasing the load by introducing electric cars, removing gas heating and cooking etc.

Do the math.
Basically both parties sat on their hands for years and now we are where we are. Can’t translation to renewables without decentralising cities.

This.

 

[DesertRoo]

This.

It’s reality unfortunately, we’ve got no technology available to fill that shortfall, especially for our major cities.
Imo we should just go all in on hydrogen, replace our gas with hydrogen, use hydrogen hydrides for storage of electricity. It’s storage density is 1.5 times current lithium batteries, this should be done, not as a farm but house. Etc etc

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If we go to nuclear, I suspect it’s the same reason iran did.

 

[ferball]

For weapons.

 

[koshari]

This.

Actually thats not true, the modelling suggests we can get to 95 percent but its financially ( not practically) not palatable to go 100 due to the laws of diminishing returns and its the same reason we have always had occasional power outages in the past with traditional technology. Having said that the investment to get to 95 wont be modest by any stretch of the imagination but the extra cost curves skyward very abruptly at 95+. there is a lot of political stuff that hasnt been addressed by either parties as well, for example why is the off peak water heating scheme still in practice where afternoons are now the new off peak period and evenings coal power has to pick up the slack?

As for stability, this also is a furphy and battery/inverter tech is far quicker at reacting to grid disturbances than other tech, South Australia had practically demonstrated this on many occasions.

According to PwC modelling funded by the Victorian Department of Environment, Land, Water, and Planning, the renewable energy target will drive new investments worth $9.8 billion in gross state product. It also expects to generate 59,000 jobs between 2023 and 2035.

As the state’s coal-fired power stations get wound down, modelling by consultancy Jacobs notes that an additional 4GW of large-scale electricity capacity will need to be built in the state between 2025 and 2030 and 18.3GW between 2031-2040 to meet the new renewables target.

The department-funded modelling states this is equivalent to 1.5GW of new capacity annually, or two large scale wind or solar plants. This is “within historical annual build rates”, according to the report.

the biggest hurdle i can see is how will it be financially palatable to increase solar when already all solar providers are cannibalising one anothers market in the same time frame, batteries are a better financial option as battery owners can exploit the peaks and troughs of the spot market much the same as bass link does at the moment.

 

[Chadwiko]

Lol the story you quoted has nothing to do with the massive shortfall of power and stability of the electrical grid

Putting aside for a moment that the claims of a 'massive shortfall of power and stability of the electrical grid' are alarmist and exagerrated...

You know what is the best, most future-proofed, and most cost-effective solution?

Batteries.

Community batteries, grid batteries, household batteries.

Australia has some of the highest take up of residential roof-top solar in the world, combined with a climate that provides us with regular sunny days year-round.

We can absolutely meet current and future energy needs by a serious adoption of battery technology across different formats.

But, there's no money for LNP-donating mining-magnates to be made in that solution, so instead... NUCLEAR!!!!!!

lol

 

[Chadwiko]

Actually thats not true, the modelling suggests we can get to 95 percent but its financially ( not practically) not palatable to go 100 due to the laws of diminishing returns and its the same reason we have always had occasional power outages in the past with traditional technology. Having said that the investment to get to 95 wont be modest by any stretch of the imagination but the extra cost curves skyward very abruptly at 95+. there is a lot of political stuff that hasnt been addressed by either parties as well, for example why is the off peak water heating scheme still in practice where afternoons are now the new off peak period and evenings coal power has to pick up the slack?

As for stability, this also is a furphy and battery/inverter tech is far quicker at reacting to grid disturbances than other tech, South Australia had practically demonstrated this on many occasions.

This.

 

[koshari]

If we go to nuclear, I suspect it’s the same reason iran did.

to support a weapons industry?? likely the only reason given the vast costs to decommission Nuclear infrastructure,

 

[DesertRoo]

Putting aside for a moment that the claims of a 'massive shortfall of power and stability of the electrical grid' are alarmist and exagerrated...

You know what is the best, most future-proofed, and most cost-effective solution?

Batteries.

Community batteries, grid batteries, household batteries.

Australia has some of the highest take up of residential roof-top solar in the world, combined with a climate that provides us with regular sunny days year-round.

We can absolutely meet current and future energy needs by a serious adoption of battery technology across different formats.

But, there's no money for LNP-donating mining-magnates to be made in that solution, so instead... NUCLEAR!!!!!!

lol

This is a fallacy, the amount of rare earth metals you’d have to mine to achieve this would be stunning, and this is just Australia, you’d have to roll this out over every county in the world, not sustainable.

 

[koshari]

sheesh reckon iam getting a bit soft these days, thought i would venture out to do a few jobs but got about 40m from the house and though bugger this as the sun was searing at me,

 

[koshari]

This is a fallacy, the amount of rare earth metals you’d have to mine to achieve this would be stunning, and this is just Australia, you’d have to roll this out over every county in the world, not sustainable.

dont need exotic metals for stationary batteries where weight isnt a factor. Volta made a battery out of lemons and zinc nails,

 

[Chadwiko]

This is a fallacy, the amount of rare earth metals you’d have to mine to achieve this would be stunning, and this is just Australia, you’d have to roll this out over every county in the world, not sustainable.

Well, I'm not sure what the rest of the world has to do with this? We're just talking about Australia's energy system.

But, even if what you were saying was true (which it isn't), again, I'd say to you; Australia is perhaps best placed out of anyone in the world to do it. We have so much Lithium. Absolutely more than enough.






Does Clive Palmer pay you to support the positions he loves? Or is it just a coincidence?

 

[koshari]

Uruguay now has one of the cleanest energy grids in the world. It has almost completely phased out fossil fuels in electricity production. Depending on the weather, anything between 90% and 95% of its power comes from renewables and what other countries can and will do is their choice, but there is no denying we have the materials locally.

anyway fwiw Uruguay is already at 90 percent renewables

 

[rickety]

sheesh reckon iam getting a bit soft these days, thought i would venture out to do a few jobs but got about 40m from the house and though bugger this as the sun was searing at me,

 

[koshari]

View attachment 1924231

doesnt work, i would be demotivated after the 2nd can.,,

 

[ferball]

Putting aside for a moment that the claims of a 'massive shortfall of power and stability of the electrical grid' are alarmist and exagerrated...

You know what is the best, most future-proofed, and most cost-effective solution?

Batteries.

Community batteries, grid batteries, household batteries.

This is literally decentralisation.

 

[DesertRoo]

Well, I'm not sure what the rest of the world has to do with this? We're just talking about Australia's energy system.

But, even if what you were saying was true (which it isn't), again, I'd say to you; Australia is perhaps best placed out of anyone in the world to do it. We have so much Lithium. Absolutely more than enough.

View attachment 1924228




Does Clive Palmer pay you to support the positions he loves? Or is it just a coincidence?

Fecking lol,
Add a little bit of pressure and you run to nationalistic ideals,
This isn’t just Australia’s problem, it’s a world wide issue that needs to be solved, world wide.
I offered up hydrogen, as an alternative, the universes most abundant elements and hydrates which is mainly from iron ore. Completely different from using rare earth metals, thats even a stretch for Australia to use.

And you run with will **** the rest of the world you must love Clive Palmer.
Dude.. might be time to check your biases.

 

[DesertRoo]

dont need exotic metals for stationary batteries where weight isnt a factor. Volta made a battery out of lemons and zinc nails, View attachment 1924229

Love to see the storage density.

 

[koshari]

This is literally decentralisation.

of course it is but ours and many other grids have been migrating in this direction for awhile now, co generation plants are an older example , in germany one of the electrical utilities installed a series of Volkswagen engines in thousands of premises to use the waste heat for heating the houses and centrally controlled where they could all ramp up and meet market fluctuations.

 

[rickety]

doesnt work, i would be demotivated after the 2nd can.,,

But by about half way through the 5th you'll be as motivated and enthusiastic as ever :-D

 

[Chadwiko]

This isn’t just Australia’s problem, it’s a world wide issue that needs to be solved, world wide.

Sounds like a job for globalism!

 

[rickety]

of course it is but ours and many other grids have been migrating in this direction for awhile now, co generation plants are an older example , in germany one of the electrical utilities installed a series of Volkswagen engines in thousands of premises to use the waste heat for heating the houses and centrally controlled where they could all ramp up and meet market fluctuations.

Did the put the engines in the front or the back of the building? :-D A mate of mine works for a "power plant" in Sweden, iirc they provide heating/hot water just for their town .... Iirc. She showed me her desk, quite very similar to that of 1 Homer J Simpson