Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[koshari]

Fecking lol,
Add a little bit of pressure and you run to nationalistic ideals,
This isn’t just Australia’s problem, it’s a world wide issue that needs to be solved, world wide.
I offered up hydrogen, as an alternative, the universes most abundant elements and hydrates which is mainly from iron ore. Completely different from using rare earth metals, thats even a stretch for Australia to use.

And you run with will * the rest of the world you must love Clive Palmer.
Dude.. might be time to check your biases.

who pays is a separate argument to the technical merit, i must admit whilst i are absolutely convinced in the technology iam far less optomistic in it being managed well from a governance/ownership/control perspective,


you only have to look at the NBN rollout to see that the better tech doesn't always win out when it competes with political idealism.

 

[DesertRoo]

Sounds like a job for globalism!

Your words not mine..

 

[koshari]

But by about half way through the 5th you'll be as motivated and enthusiastic as ever :-D

would want to be because i suspect that can would be a toasty 25 degrees by then.

 

[Chadwiko]

Absolutely dying with amusement at throwing around "nationalist" accusations in a discussion about a national energy grid hahahaha.

 

[rickety]

I'm comfortably out of me league, but Globalism ..... most of the world is hell bent on destroying the other parts of the world over whichever pretend friend they may or may not have. Imo. With apologies of course to those more pious than my own blissfully ignorant seemingly athiest self.

 

[rickety]

Anyway, you blokes can carry on, I'm off to the beach to recharge myself using solar, wind and wave energy

 

[koshari]

I'm comfortably out of me league, but Globalism ..... most of the world is hell bent on destroying the other parts of the world over whichever pretend friend they may or may not have. Imo. With apologies of course to those more pious than my own blissfully ignorant seemingly athiest self.

my perception it that its a lot more simplistic than that,

its simply about persisting with the rent seeking methodology of the past, only the tools change.

its no coincidence that all the telcos want you on "a plan" rather than paying piece-wise.

 

[DesertRoo]

who pays is a separate argument to the technical merit, i must admit whilst i are absolutely convinced in the technology iam far less optomistic in it being managed well from a governance/ownership/control perspective,


you only have to look at the NBN rollout to see that the better tech doesn't always win out when it competes with political idealism.

regional towns would be fine, it’s the cities that won’t be able to adapt. Simply to much concentration of power to keep a stable grid without having a stable power load.
basic issue with electricity over distance, so everything would have to be decentralised.
Can’t see it happening with everyone’s self interests.

 

[koshari]

regional towns would be fine, it’s the cities that won’t be able to adapt. Simply to much concentration of power to keep a stable grid without having a stable power load.
basic issue with electricity over distance, so everything would have to be decentralised.
Can’t see it happening with everyone’s self interests.

What are the physics your basing this on? you are aware that melbourne is supplied by a series of 500 and 220 Kv trans lines as it stands?? theres basically a transmission line ring that takes in rowville, thomastown and keilor that link the NSW 330kv and ends of the latrobe valley north and south 500/220kv feeders as well as the 500kv heywood lines??, the heywood line generally was built to supply power to alcoa however is perfectly capable of feeding either way, thats a danm lot of reticulation that Melbourne can feed from! And there is one single generator that is rarely used these days in the 500mw newport gas thermal plant shored up with a few single cycle gas turbines down at Laverton??

pretty sure thats heaps of capacity to get the proposed great southern (bass strait) wind farm and all the wind and solar assets in the stated east into town.

distance isn't a problem.

 

[Emma12]

Nuclear in Australia is dumb.

We are the perfect country to roll out a massive solar + offshore wind + battery storage approach.

The conservatives pushing nuclear are doing so for two reasons;

1) They know it's not feasible, but the longer they push for nuclear, the longer it takes for a proper renewables approach to be adopted and implemented; and
2) Nuclear would maintain corporate control over energy generation in Australia, meaning their rich donors would still stand to profit massively.

Yeah no worries but we will stick all the wind turbines & solar panels around your house

 

[DesertRoo]

What are the physics your basing this on? you are aware that melbourne is supplied by a series of 500 and 220 Kv trans lines as it stands?? theres basically a transmission line ring that takes in rowville, thomastown and keilor that link the NSW 330kv and ends of the latrobe valley north and south 500/220kv feeders as well as the 500kv heywood lines??, the heywood line generally was built to supply power to alcoa however is perfectly capable of feeding either way, thats a danm lot of reticulation that Melbourne can feed from! And there is one single generator that is rarely used these days in the 500mw newport gas thermal plant shored up with a few single cycle gas turbines down at Laverton??

pretty sure thats heaps of capacity to get the proposed great southern (bass strait) wind farm and all the wind and solar assets in the stated east into town.

distance isn't a problem.

Correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is all the substations wouldn’t be able to handle the off and on nature of renewable power, the transformers would go pop if they kept changing the phases. They all needed to be upgraded or keep a base load running.

 

[Chadwiko]

Yeah no worries but we will stick all the wind turbines & solar panels around your house

My house is currently plastered with 10kw of solar panels, so this sounds just fine to me. The more the merrier!

 

[rickety]

AFL greats Kevin Sheedy and Terry Daniher named in Krakouer brothers' racism class action​

By Melissa Brown
Posted 5h ago5 hours ago, updated 33m ago33 minutes ago

Phil and Jimmy Krakouer are pushing ahead with a class action against the AFL that names several high profile figures in their racism allegations.(Nathan Archer)
abc.net.au/news/afl-greats-alleged-racism-class-action/103569932
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• In short: Phil Krakouer is leading a class action brought by several former players, including his brother James, who allege the AFL failed to protect them from racial abuse on and off the field over several decades.
• A statement of claim has been lodged in court alleging Kevin Sheedy, Terry Daniher, Rod Austin, Billy Duckworth and Wayne Johnston were among those who targeted the Krakouer brother.
• What's next? The matter is listed for an initial administrative hearing on Wednesday, March 13.

Kevin Sheedy and Terry Daniher are among a number of AFL greats named in a landmark class action against the AFL for allegedly failing to protect players from racial abuse on the field.
The class action has been brought by North Melbourne great Phil Krakouer and six others who played football between 1975 and 2022, including his brother James Krakouer.
The statement lodged in the Supreme Court of Victoria alleged that from the time Krakouer signed with North Melbourne in the early 1980s, he was the victim of verbal and physical abuse in the majority of the 141 games he played, particularly away games.
The document alleged he and his family were immediately the subject of newspaper articles that contained racist remarks about his family from Western Australia.
The AFL allegedly did not respond to the articles or support Krakouer.
It is alleged he was frequently called racist names and terms by opposition players and spectators, and was physically attacked by players who were trying to goad him to respond so that he would be sanctioned.
The claim has alleged that spectators threw beer cans at Phil Krakouer on multiple occasions and that, in April 1982, fellow North Melbourne player James Krakouer was struck by a can thrown while his brother was being abused.

AFL greats accused of verbal abuse​

In a game in about June 1982, it has been alleged player Rod Austin was physically targeting Phil Krakouer during the match and got into a fight with James Krakouer afterwards.
The statement of claim included an allegation that in the 1982 elimination final, multiple Essendon players were racially abusing Phil Krakouer.
The class action claimants alleged team captain Terry Daniher frequently called Krakouer racist names during the match.
It is alleged the umpires did not respond and Krakouer said he was powerless to respond because of the risk of suspension.

Phil Krakouer alleges he suffered racial abuse in the majority of the games he played while with North Melbourne.
Billy Duckworth and Wayne Johnston have also been named in the statement of claim as players who are alleged to have racially abused him.
The claim also alleged that about five to 10 years ago, former coach Kevin Sheedy admitted to Krakouer that he encouraged his players to abuse Krakouer and his brother to obtain a tactical advantage against them in matches.
Margalit Injury Lawyers associate Emily Sinclair said she understood that Sheedy, Daniher, Austin, Duckworth and Johnston had denied the allegations made against them in the claim.
She said they may be called to give evidence if the class action proceeds to a trial.

AFL denies neglect of players​

The legal claim against the AFL alleged it was foreseeable for the league, which was operating as the VFL for part of the period covered by the class action, to see that indigenous players and players of colour were at risk of abuse during matches, or in connection with matches, from opposition players, members of staff of opposition clubs, including coaches, and spectators.
It also alleged umpires and match officials did not prevent abuse and that the AFL did not sanction players or spectators for racism, leading to the risk of long-term or permanent harm.

The AFL says it will defend the class action.(AAP Image: Mal Fairclough)
Ms Sinclair said the class action was seeking compensation in an attempt to improve safety in the AFL.
The AFL said it rejected any allegation that the VFL/AFL had been negligent over the past 47 years and would defend those claims.
"As a code, we are privileged to have had hundreds of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander players who have played our game, including Phil and Jimmy Krakouer," a spokesperson said.
"We fully acknowledge during our long history of the game there has been racism in Australian football and that players have been marginalised, hurt or discriminated against because of their race and for that we have apologised and continue to apologise and will continue to act to address that harm."
The AFL said it was working through the class action and continuing ongoing work against racism and discrimination with its clubs, players, staff and supporters to promote a safe and respectful environment at all levels.
Ms Sinclair said she was continuing to field inquiries from other former players about possibly joining the class action.
Kevin Sheedy is now a director at the Essendon Football Club.
He has told the ABC he cannot comment because the matter is before the court.
The Bombers have released a statement supporting Sheedy.
"As a director of the club, Kevin has strenuously denied the allegation in the court action that refers to him," it said.
"The club will continue to support him and the past Essendon players that are also referred to in the court action."
Essendon said it had a history of advocacy for First Nations People, led by Sheedy.
"Throughout his career, Kevin has championed the causes of First Nations footballers, never more so than through his role in the establishment of "Dreamtime at the G", a celebration of First Nations peoples and cultures."

 

[Chadwiko]

AFL greats Kevin Sheedy and Terry Daniher named in Krakouer brothers' racism class action​

Big discussion already in the Sympathy for * thread, mate

 

[Chadwiko]

Good op-ed from former Liberal Party leader John Hewson on the topic of Nuclear and Dutton's push for it;

Renewables deniers and the nuclear mirage

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

 

[koshari]

Correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is all the substations wouldn’t be able to handle the off and on nature of renewable power, the transformers would go pop if they kept changing the phases. They all needed to be upgraded or keep a base load running.

OK, happy to correct you given your wrong, the system has to have the adaptability to meet changing instantaneous demand primarily through frequency management and less crucially though Var management, At present and historically frequency response has been met by means of rolling reserve ( most thermal stations have room to open the control valves and admit more steam to the turbines quickly as they are seldomly running with the control valves 100 percent open) .

Secondly stations have also played a part in managing the VARs of the system, if the load changed from inductive to capacitive or back there is room in a generator to adjust the AVR rotor current to match any reactive power changes, reactive power changes occur are when say a large inductive furnace trips or an transmission line ( by nature trans lines have a lot of capacitance) drops off.

Post 2000 the power ratings of semiconductors has increased to the point its trivial and affordable to reconstruct sine waves quite faithfully, you might have noticed almost all power tools are brush-less now ( they use Lithium batteries inverted to variable AC to a synchronous motor) , everything from mobility scooters, air conditionars, fridges, to electric cars use DC and through the use of semiconductors and invert it to the desired AC waveform, even most of the small generators are a DC generator inverted through semiconductors to the desired AC. and even where the semiconductors dont meat the voltage threshold of something like say a trans line you can simply step them up through a traditional transformer, basslink for example is a DC link from tassie but there is an inverter station next door to loy lang B power station that inverts the energy, ( one at the other and as well for when they are sending power to tassie) .

And because you can control the firing timing of the semiconductors you can also use them to influence frequency and VARS. so an extension of the this the same tech is available inverting from batteries,


the substations you speak of that already exist don.t care , as long at the vars and frequency managed. they also have some ability of their own to make small adjustments through online tap changers and capacitor banks, rotary condensers also were used in some be places in subs to give a little more ability to adjust VARS however iam not sure to many still exist, possibly the fishermans bend sub may still have one??? question for someone else.

So in summary the technology is there , has been for some time, only the will and expense to implement is possibly are not,


However you are correct of the damage possible if the result if the transformers changes phases, fortunately i can assure you this cannot happen practically as the cabling to the bushing on every transformers is pretty robust and generally contained in an explosion proof trification box. it is however possible for a generator to be synchronised out of phase which isn't a nice thing, has happened rarely and caused substantial plant damage and system disturbances. ,

 

[koshari]

Yeah no worries but we will stick all the wind turbines & solar panels around your house

stick em out in bass strait. anyway traditionally nobody wants generating assets near them, Unit 2 at loy lang A is there because the people in Melbourne cracked the sads that Newport was going to have 2 generators originally,

 

[koshari]

Good op-ed from former Liberal Party leader John Hewson on the topic of Nuclear and Dutton's push for it;

Renewables deniers and the nuclear mirage

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Given that its such a pipe dream i really haven't taken their nuclear commentary very seriously, i guess i would be semi interested in what their actual agenda is because i know as a fact its not being pushed as an affordability issue?
politically one would think that inner city people would have traditionally supported a remote nuke somewhere in the boons but these days politically the inner city is the domain if the Leftys and the greens???

 

[Chadwiko]

stick em out in bass strait. anyway traditionally nobody wants generating assets near them, Unit 2 at loy lang A is there because the people in Melbourne cracked the sads that Newport was going to have 2 generators originally,

I live <2kms away from the newport station. It's a total non-factor. Can't see/smell/hear it at all.

 

[Chadwiko]

Given that its such a pipe dream i really haven't taken their nuclear commentary very seriously, i guess i would be semi interested in what their actual agenda is because i know as a fact its not being pushed as an affordability issue?

Genuinely I reckon it boils down to; "if coal and gas is on the way out, we need an industry that keeps our mining industry still relevant and that we can export", and they're hoping that can be uranium at scale.

 

[koshari]

Genuinely I reckon it boils down to; "if coal and gas is on the way out, we need an industry that keeps our mining industry still relevant and that we can export", and they're hoping that can be uranium at scale.

Can only make sense if it is a reason to move to improve economies of scale of enrichment so we can value add our yellow cake? but the short term profits will not go far when you factor in decommissioning the plant. unless the agenda is to go the US style where the government underwrites the Nuke industry to the point where they don't enforce decommissioning timelines (safstor) and let the multinationals perpetually keep obsolete plants in "mothballs"??

Decommissioning nuclear reactors is a long-term and costly process - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

 

[krakouers]

Genuinely I reckon it boils down to; "if coal and gas is on the way out, we need an industry that keeps our mining industry still relevant and that we can export", and they're hoping that can be uranium at scale.

Without knowing exactly how, I thought Thorium was a better option?

 

[koshari]

I live <2kms away from the newport station. It's a total non-factor. Can't see/smell/hear it at all.

it wasnt in a non factor in the 80s hence the 2nd unit was re assigned to be installed in the latrobe valley! anyway fwiw Newport is very seldom generating these days anyway,

 

[koshari]

Good op-ed from former Liberal Party leader John Hewson on the topic of Nuclear and Dutton's push for it;

Renewables deniers and the nuclear mirage

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Whilst Dr Hewson hits on a lot of factual and goodpoints at least here in this country its mostly proposed schemes from one party ( or more accurately a coalition) that are being critisized,

take that in comparison the UK where they have the bizarre actual scenario where Drax power station converted a black coal power station to burn woodchips and now the government states its 100 percent renewable and is free to emit as much pollution as it likes whilst subsidising them with billions of taxpayer pounds!

 

[ferball]

What are the physics your basing this on? you are aware that melbourne is supplied by a series of 500 and 220 Kv trans lines as it stands?? theres basically a transmission line ring that takes in rowville, thomastown and keilor that link the NSW 330kv and ends of the latrobe valley north and south 500/220kv feeders as well as the 500kv heywood lines??, the heywood line generally was built to supply power to alcoa however is perfectly capable of feeding either way, thats a danm lot of reticulation that Melbourne can feed from! And there is one single generator that is rarely used these days in the 500mw newport gas thermal plant shored up with a few single cycle gas turbines down at Laverton??

pretty sure thats heaps of capacity to get the proposed great southern (bass strait) wind farm and all the wind and solar assets in the stated east into town.

distance isn't a problem.

How are electric cars going to work?

Not mechanically, I mean from a logistical pov.

Is it possible to recharge them in two minutes?

How many fossil fuel vehicles are refueling at any one moment in Melbourne? Is it possible to add that drain to Melbourne's electricity network without breaking it?

To deal with the first question it might be possible to have replaceable battery systems and recharge the batteries over time but that raises a whole lot of other questions as well. (Would they be standardised for all vehicles or would some vehicles by only able to use specific battery types etc etc)