Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[Tectonic]

Being able to bet on the decline of stocks or currencies is the single worst thing about markets, I've seen rampant negativity and fear mongering from people who have taken wild gambles on things crashing and have tried desperately to sow the seeds of panic for months, it has made these downturns to be self-fulfilling prophecies and then these people come out and act like they are some stock prophet, no mate, you are insidious leeches who hurt retirement funds and investments of average families.

To an extent yeah, I get that. There's a lot of negativity out there and sentiment does have a huge impact on price but the bears are probably also needed to keep markets in check. Can't be up only all the time! And you could argue guys that make predictions of "Bitcoin to $250,000" are just as bad.
I saw a lot of people get sucked into the bubble last year with no exit strategy

 

[Tas]

To an extent yeah, I get that. There's a lot of negativity out there and sentiment does have a huge impact on price but the bears are probably also needed to keep markets in check. Can't be up only all the time! And you could argue guys that make predictions of "Bitcoin to $250,000" are just as bad.
I saw a lot of people get sucked into the bubble last year with no exit strategy

I think the point is to have people who aren't biased who inform the public, like when I was working in portfolios for rich people, I had to sign a contract which said I couldn't invest in or profit from the financial advice to clients and any professional relationship the firm had with any corporation we were not allowed to invest in, so there was confidence by our clients that we had no conflicting interest to the professional advice we gave and we only charged a fee for service, there were no bogus financial incentives we received on the side for pushing various products or services.

You just can't trust anyone who reports on financial advice, or gives interviews, first thing I am always thinking is who has this person sold out to or what is their own portfolio like, there is nobody pushing stories or agendas that harms themselves. Most people have no idea what goes on in the industry.

 

[Tectonic]

Speaking of people losing pensions

 

[DesertRoo]

Being able to bet on the decline of stocks or currencies is the single worst thing about markets, I've seen rampant negativity and fear mongering from people who have taken wild gambles on things crashing and have tried desperately to sow the seeds of panic for months, it has made these downturns to be self-fulfilling prophecies and then these people come out and act like they are some stock prophet, no mate, you are insidious leeches who hurt retirement funds and investments of average families.

Shorting has to happen, otherwise companies can get away with fraudulent reporting.
It’s the markets own safety net.

Bitcoin is effectively worthless anyway. It’s value is zero, it creates nothing apart from perceived wealth. Latest digital ponzi scheme.

 

[DesertRoo]

Speaking of people losing pensions

People should go to jail for that.

 

[Hojuman]

Shorting has to happen, otherwise companies can get away with fraudulent reporting.
It’s the markets own safety net.

Bitcoin is effectively worthless anyway. It’s value is zero, it creates nothing apart from perceived wealth. Latest digital ponzi scheme.

Soooooo.........l shouldn't trust this guy ?

 

[Val Keating]

One Person won the $2B lottery in California

 

[AnEmptyChair]

One Person won the $2B lottery in California

Read a thing the other week when we had that massive powerball jackpot that said that winning tge lotto is utterly disastrous for many winners, with massively increased chances of being murdered, kidnapped, falling bankrupt or committing suicide. It was pretty ****ed

 

[Val Keating]

Read a thing the other week when we had that massive powerball jackpot that said that winning tge lotto is utterly disastrous for many winners, with massively increased chances of being murdered, kidnapped, falling bankrupt or committing suicide. It was pretty ****ed

Id take that chance

 

[Ligma]

I reckon La trobe has to really upgrade their nursing classrooms. They are tiny with no aircon and get really hot with a lot of people in the room at once.

We were in groups of 4 and one girl in our group passed out in which we all observed how calm the our teacher was which was amazing (duh cause she is a nurse) but I really think it’s a hazard and not a good learning environment.

 

[big_e]

People should go to jail for that.

Why?

A fund that manages $185 billion is one of 69 investors that collectively put in $420 million. It's a small part of their overall portfolio, and as long as the rest of it is being managed well, then they're entitled to take some risks.

 

[DesertRoo]

Why?

A fund that manages $185 billion is one of 69 investors that collectively put in $420 million. It's a small part of their overall portfolio, and as long as the rest of it is being managed well, then they're entitled to take some risks.

They are custodians of a wealth fund and playing around with crypto is gambling not investing

 

[LuvtheKangas]

They are custodians of a wealth fund and playing around with crypto is gambling not investing

It's OK if their investment mandate allows for a small proportion to be in speculative assets.

 

[Tas]

Shorting has to happen, otherwise companies can get away with fraudulent reporting.

Hmmmm, How does short selling prevent "fraudulent reporting"?

In Australia it is against the law for short sellers to give out fraudulent information but in America anyone can have "an opinion" so there short sellers can lie through their teeth and attempt to GameStop any company that is listed.

How much money did people lose due to the Gamestop shenanigans? $27 billion or so. They employ something like 12,000 people, it impacts a lot of lives, particularly in America where a job can mean having health insurance or not.

If you have a stock and you think it stinks or has no future just sell it and move on. I don't think Shorting has any real value other than to incentivise people to work against a company to ensure an investment in it's demise isn't a bad or risky investment. It makes it too hard to regulate or police.

It’s the markets own safety net.

I think the market will be fine without shorting, they had to ban naked shorting after the GFC in 2008, even in whacky America.

Bitcoin is effectively worthless anyway. It’s value is zero, it creates nothing apart from perceived wealth. Latest digital ponzi scheme.

It is as worthless as most other currencies that have moved away from the gold standard, we are facing high inflation all over the world because countries just kept printing money, if Australia just keeps printing money and doesn't reign in inflation then what money you have will eventually be worthless. If you think it isn't possible in an advanced economy then Turkey is descending down this path of madness as we speak, what is their inflation rate, almost 90% or something horrific like that.

Crypto currency has no state, it isn't used to prop up a failing economy, pay for pointless wars, pay for incompetent pandemic policies, etc. They can control the volume or rate of the currency, it isn't possible to fraudulently create the currency and the blockchain system and lack of centralisation means it can't be robbed or have it's records destroyed. It is actually very innovative and it is no surprise someone like China hates cryptocurrency because it is much harder to oppress people who have money stashed somewhere they can't steal it from them or can't prevent people leaving by holding their money hostage, like they do at present.

I think most cryptocurrency was definitely overvalued, I stayed out of it because I found it too much like gambling, nobody really knows what it's value should be and it fluctuates too wildly for my liking. To say it is worthless is not accurate. It just isn't stable enough for my liking... for a currency.

 

[Makeshift Park]

If you have a stock and you think it stinks or has no future just sell it and move on. I don't think Shorting has any real value other than to incentivise people to work against a company to ensure an investment in it's demise isn't a bad or risky investment. It makes it too hard to regulate or police.

I think what you're suggesting would be fine if we had well resourced and effective regulators in this country, and in western markets more generally, but we don't.

And so in the meantime, ASX companies are held to account by short sellers.

Take J Capital for instance.

In the past week they've taken on Lake Resources over misrepresenting a commitment from the UK Govt:

Lake Resources share price dips amid latest short-seller attack

The Lake Resources N.L. (ASX:LKE) share price is under pressure today after being hit with another short attack...

www.fool.com.au

Previously they took on Vulcan Energy over misrepresenting the viability of their geothermal project in Germany:

Non-starter: Vulcan Energy’s lithium plans savaged by short-seller

J Capital has attacked $1.86 billion Vulcan Energy for ‘misleading investors’ and questioned its plans to produce zero-carbon lithium.

www.afr.com

In both instances, you had companies experiencing absolutely massive shareprice growth with no profits in sight, and the companies' managements were actively fueling that speculation by misrepresenting their activities overseas. In spite of all that, it was unlikely that ASIC was going to get involved.

So it was up to the market. If J Capital was wrong, and both businesses were being run on solid foundations, then you'd think their share prices would return to something approximating their real value. Good companies can survive the short term hit.

 

[Hojuman]

I reckon La trobe has to really upgrade their nursing classrooms. They are tiny with no aircon and get really hot with a lot of people in the room at once.

We were in groups of 4 and one girl in our group passed out in which we all observed how calm the our teacher was which was amazing (duh cause she is a nurse) but I really think it’s a hazard and not a good learning environment.

Yeh, but you weed out the ones that won't cope early.

 

[Ligma]

Yeh, but you weed out the ones that won't cope early.

We were practicing doing handover - nothing graphic or invasive - the teacher had to stop our class due to how hot it was in the room.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

It's OK if their investment mandate allows for a small proportion to be in speculative assets.

That's incorrect.

 

[Hojuman]

We were practicing doing handover - nothing graphic or invasive - the teacher had to stop our class due to how hot it was in the room.

Here's one. Trying doing a 5 hour burns bath standing under a heater in full theatre gear

 

[Ligma]

Here's one. Trying doing a 5 hour burns bath standing under a heater in full theatre gear

Not trying to compare hoju.

 

[Tas]

I think what you're suggesting would be fine if we had well resourced and effective regulators in this country, and in western markets more generally, but we don't.

And so in the meantime, ASX companies are held to account by short sellers.

Take J Capital for instance.

In the past week they've taken on Lake Resources over misrepresenting a commitment from the UK Govt:

Lake Resources share price dips amid latest short-seller attack

The Lake Resources N.L. (ASX:LKE) share price is under pressure today after being hit with another short attack...

www.fool.com.au

Previously they took on Vulcan Energy over misrepresenting the viability of their geothermal project in Germany:

Non-starter: Vulcan Energy’s lithium plans savaged by short-seller

J Capital has attacked $1.86 billion Vulcan Energy for ‘misleading investors’ and questioned its plans to produce zero-carbon lithium.

www.afr.com

In both instances, you had companies experiencing absolutely massive shareprice growth with no profits in sight, and the companies' managements were actively fueling that speculation by misrepresenting their activities overseas. In spite of all that, it was unlikely that ASIC was going to get involved.

So it was up to the market. If J Capital was wrong, and both businesses were being run on solid foundations, then you'd think their share prices would return to something approximating their real value. Good companies can survive the short term hit.

J Capital are a self proclaimed activist group, or financial terrorists, they just plan to make money as they attack their target rather than lose money.

The answer to poor policing is better policing, not defund the police and resort to vigilantes.

The reality is what they are doing is not with their own shares. This is the absurdity of the system, they end up borrowing the shares from someone else who has them, crash the price of the company in question and then hand back the shares they repurchase at the crashed price plus whatever instrument cost. So it isn't just the company that takes the hit, those who lend out the shares and empower the shorting to crash the share price are left with stock a fraction of the value they were and then in a position where if they sell they are going to lose a substantial amount.

It isn't in the best interest of those who enable shorting, by giving the people who intend to do harm to the company, it is this moral impasse which I find the problem. To me it isn't ethical, it is vandalism. If you use your own money or own shares to hurt the company that is a moral standpoint, but to profit from someone else's shares by groups like this it isn't a gamble, they know well in advance they are going to sell enough shares to cause the run on the company and they are doing it with someone else's shares. I think it is only marginally less ethical than naked selling and the reason that was banned was because people dogpiled on JP Morgan and other fat cats, they aren't meant to be victims in his fixed game.

As soon as reddit put the short squeeze on those shorting GameStop and some other companies, all of a sudden they put a ban on purchasing of those shares and only allowed to sell them.

The game is fixed and it is not in your interest.

By all means, people should put a lot more pressure on the government to police and enforce misinformation reported by companies on the ASX, but they need to get rid of shorting. We have these moronic superannuation fund managers that hand their shares over to groups they know are going to trash the shares they are handing over. In who's interest is this?

 

[Hojuman]

Not trying to compare hoju.

Alot to be said for the old " hosp." training, + you got housed, fed and paid.

 

[Only Forwards]

Read a thing the other week when we had that massive powerball jackpot that said that winning tge lotto is utterly disastrous for many winners, with massively increased chances of being murdered, kidnapped, falling bankrupt or committing suicide. It was pretty ****ed

The first call any winner should be making, before claiming is to lawyers. Especially in the US where some some states don’t allow you to collect anonymously.

 

[Hojuman]

Thank god, buddha & mohammed we don't have mid-term election's.

 

[big_e]

They are custodians of a wealth fund and playing around with crypto is gambling not investing

It’s really not that big a deal.

For a start, they didn’t get into crypto itself – they invested in a trading platform.

And it was from a part of their overall portfolio dedicated to speculative investments, at the time limited to just 3% of the overall assets of the fund. It’s actually really prudent of them to carve the speculative stuff away from the rest of their investments, as it protects the overwhelming majority of their assets from being affected. And in that 3%, they also invested in the likes of Canva and SpaceX, so despite recent events in the share market, they’ve had some winners. Their target initial investment is no more than $250 million, so even if this investment goes to zero, it’s about 0.1% of the total value of the pension fund.

Nobody’s going to jail for that.