Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

Fear is the greatest motivator at election time. The right were quicker to adopt a stance where fear influenced the voters their way. USA, GB and Australia are all heavily influenced by right wing media who identify and amplify that fear message.

Think of the franking credit debacle here last election. A fear campaign that Labor were going to tax retirees was hugely successful despite assurances from Labor that most retirees would actually be better off under them. The right get back in and royally screw the retirees via several pathways, and they're told "but at least we didn't impose a retiree tax". The franking credits issue does not affect the vast majority of Australians, but for those wealthy people that are affected by it, it’s quite a passionate issue and it is these wealthy people who have the greatest power to voice their concerns about it. Labor’s policy would derive $8 billion a year mainly from the wealthiest once fully implemented.

Franking credit refunds were introduced to deal with a differential in taxation rates between company tax and superannuation tax rates. It was originally created to service a small number of situations. Refunds have got very big and certainly much bigger than was anticipated when the policy of refund-ability was first introduced. This has become a loophole for the super wealthy to pay less tax. This is why the the funds have grown so much. The wealthy are having their income supplemented by the poor. To be fair, there are a large number of people of limited wealth who also try to capitalise on this loophole, but it doesn't offer much unless you have huge earnings through investments.

It is this level of complexity that causes so many to just accept what others are telling them, or act conservatively and vote conservatively just in case.

Scaring works.

But is this how we want our society to develop. To have the party that frightens us the most of what the other party will do to us if we vote them in.

We are using the wrong parts of our brain we we make these decisions. We need to make more rational decisions, and we need to elect leaders who will look further forward than the next election.

Yeah absolutely, Labor really stuffed the timing too, with the falling price of housing at the time they were running a way to drop house prices, it was really unfortunate. People were whinging about affordability, then when prices dropped everyone with a house shat themselves that they were losing cash. They really should have walked in with out policy. The Libs have done well to have no policy since they ran with Joe Hockey's "budget emergency" slash fest. Since then they haven't had a single high profile policy despite having been in government for years. Even the things they have done have been through plebiscites and royal commissions so they can't wear any political backlash.


The franking credits was hard for them to explain in the media and they never sold the message well. Giving away $5 billion a year and climbing isn't hard to explain to me.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm a fan of democratic socialism and the best years for Australians were when we had a pretty socialist landscape. Free education, publicly owned utilities and access to heath care was utopian to me. Brexit is a way that big business can slash regulation so that they can deregulate everything and cash in. It was sold to the people as a racist issue and the Brittons were sold an image of returning to the good old days of tea on the lawn and red phone boxes.......like the days when they had democratic socialism.

Trump again, appeal was to rust belt working class people who were sold the dream of returning to the old days of a job for life and where everyone had enough to get by. You look at who backs these people and it's pretty hard to like them. Nobody in the media tells you who backed Trump into government, but this is the most concise one I have found. These are corporate interests much like the federal government here with massive links to the minerals council. There is a danger in choosing a side like footy club. There are dicks on both sides and both should be called out if they are.

The Shadow Cabinet: How a Group of Powerful Business Leaders Drove Trump's Agenda

How a group of powerful business leaders guided Donald Trump's anti-regulatory policy blitz

www.rollingstone.com

 

[bergholt]

There is a danger in choosing a side like footy club.

Yep. If you pick a side then think they’re always correct, they’ll take advantage of you.

 

[Mowman]

I guess the result speaks for itself. It may have been a superb document, but the majority obviously didn't believe Corbyn was capable of delivering on it.

A bit like Labor here. It's all the fault of ignorant voters and the deplorables for not recognising the genius in it, not incompetent, looney left idealogues who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Britain just dodged a very large and deadly bullet.

well said
Funny how the majority never understand what they are voting for

 

[Yawkey way]

well said
Funny how the majority never understand what they are voting for

Exactly it’s not enough to come up with your brilliant manifesto you need to be able to win government to implement any of it.

Labour sold people out by not believing their own polling and refusing to alter the message, ridiculous entitled approach that simply guaranteed victory to the coalition.

I watched some of the polling numbers role in and saw the declarations as they were made in the British election. In some of those traditional labour seats they had massive swings against them and the greens polled friends, family and other zealots numbers, yet apparently they were bloody brilliant.

I don’t know how you can wake up the next day and claim anything other than a concussion and a sore ****.

 

[Kildonan]

I'm a fan of democratic socialism and the best years for Australians were when we had a pretty socialist landscape. Free education, publicly owned utilities and access to heath care was utopian to me. Brexit is a way that big business can slash regulation so that they can deregulate everything and cash in. It was sold to the people as a racist issue and the Brittons were sold an image of returning to the good old days of tea on the lawn and red phone boxes.......like the days when they had democratic socialism.

Trump again, appeal was to rust belt working class people who were sold the dream of returning to the old days of a job for life and where everyone had enough to get by. You look at who backs these people and it's pretty hard to like them. Nobody in the media tells you who backed Trump into government, but this is the most concise one I have found. These are corporate interests much like the federal government here with massive links to the minerals council. There is a danger in choosing a side like footy club. There are dicks on both sides and both should be called out if they are.

The Shadow Cabinet: How a Group of Powerful Business Leaders Drove Trump's Agenda

How a group of powerful business leaders guided Donald Trump's anti-regulatory policy blitz

www.rollingstone.com

If you're into podcasts, there is a fairly high quality one called "Reveal" - This episode entitled "Scuttling Science" shows how Trump's Republicans have systematically neutered scientific advisory boards and other roles that were populated by senior scientists. Their role was to prevent business from overstepping the mark and endangering the public. Trump failed to renew their contracts and replaced them with (unqualified) persons from the business community. This is how the environmental boards were overtaken and "red tape" cut. Red tape - is shorthand for environmental, personal safety and medical regulations - protections are being removed all across USA. In order to compete - other countries are following suit, cutting regulation that protect us. It is becoming a FFA and the winners are big business and the losers are us and future generations.

The world is definitely a worse place thanks to the right wing politics of USA.

 

[Drake Huggins]

well said
Funny how the majority never understand what they are voting for

Nor the minority. Nobody knows what they're voting for, in reality. Some are just delusional enough to believe they know. I haven't voted since 2007. None of them deserve it. It only encourages them.

 

[Drake Huggins]

Boris the lesser of two evils? Hahahahhaaha. The same guy who's made a higher proportion of british kids poverty stricken than in Ethiopia. The same guy who's doubled immigration despite claiming it's the cause of all Britain's problems. The same guy who's trying to gut one of the best healthcare systems in the world, and cut funding from Emergency Services. He's a Morrison replica, and absolute s**tstain on the country. Corbyn on the other hand, dared to stand up to the media and had the biggest smear campaign in human history ran against him by the pro torie media. Give it a rest mate, facts > feelings.

How long has he been PM, leader of the opposition. Must be a fast worker. Revise and think. How can he have created an entire generation of poor kids? Wasn't Tony Blair PM for a long time as the generation of doomers were growing up? Any blame there?

Park the bias for a bit. Your generation have been at a disadvantage of being indoctrinated by the ... I am too foolish to read the site rules of academia, who themselves were raised in an ideological sheltered workshop. No ad hominen, CU, but my children are of your generation, so I'm well aware of the nonsense they were plied with.

The result is on the streets of England as we speak. Self entitled narcissists who cannot accept alternative opinions, who lack resilience, the ability to think critically, only to criticise. The "everyone gets a prize generation" that could be whatever they wanted to be, unfettered by the realities of life.

The hope is actually with the older generation. We are to blame for the current situation, because we let it happen. We have one generation to repair it. How. Through voting for sensible. US, Australia, GB, even Greece elected its first conservative government since WW2.

It is our fault. We generation Xers haven't ruined the planet at all. We've ruined our most valuable resource. Not the environment, but our Yoong folk.

Here in Australia, vast numbers of traditional Labor voters have abandoned the party. The main cause is the perception that traditional Labor values have been eschewed by the party in favour of the lunacy of the greens. Communism, gay rights, etc have supplanted the foundations of the movement. Look up Dr. Bob Brown. The founder of the greens. Get his views if you don't believe me. We have lied to you and let this shit happen.

I once voted Green. In my 20's I was a socialist. Then I grew up. It is said, "A man who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart. A man who is a socialist at 40 has no brain."

As a system it has always failed. It always will, eventually. The reasons are too many and varied to discuss here. The democratic West has rejected it again. For good reason, too. Not because the non believers are morons and deplorables. It's because we've been burnt before.

PS. More kids living in poverty in England than in Ethiopia? Where did you get that snippet of fantasy? Pravda?

 

[MUFKilda]

No, I'm not joking at all, as I vote for, and am a member of, a party which is to the left of Corbyn's Labour. I think Labour's attempt at a socialist analysis of how society functions and what is really important in life was greatly needed, as it represented the first real break with neoliberal dogma for a very long time. It was an incredibly important service to human progress, as it keeps the debate open. What we will now have is five more Tory years of privatising our NHS by stealth, more homelessness, more food banks (have you heard of those?), more vulnerable people kicked off welfare, more environmental damage, more racism and Rule Britannia bullshit, more trickledown economics, more racing to the bottom. Sorry, but fu** that; completely fu** that.

Labour offered an alternative of a better society, along the lines of the great 1945-51 Labour government which created the National Health Service, a comprehensive welfare state, free education for all, council housing and massive slum clearances, and much more. Many sneered then, saying that, after six years of war and national bankruptcy it couldn't be done....well it was done, along with much more, and the Tories have tried to turn the clock back ever since. There is a path to a better world, it's just that cynics don't want that world to exist.

 

[MUFKilda]

How long has he been PM, leader of the opposition. Must be a fast worker. Revise and think. How can he have created an entire generation of poor kids? Wasn't Tony Blair PM for a long time as the generation of doomers were growing up? Any blame there?

Park the bias for a bit. Your generation have been at a disadvantage of being indoctrinated by the ... I am too foolish to read the site rules of academia, who themselves were raised in an ideological sheltered workshop. No ad hominen, CU, but my children are of your generation, so I'm well aware of the nonsense they were plied with.

The result is on the streets of England as we speak. Self entitled narcissists who cannot accept alternative opinions, who lack resilience, the ability to think critically, only to criticise. The "everyone gets a prize generation" that could be whatever they wanted to be, unfettered by the realities of life.

The hope is actually with the older generation. We are to blame for the current situation, because we let it happen. We have one generation to repair it. How. Through voting for sensible. US, Australia, GB, even Greece elected its first conservative government since WW2.

It is our fault. We generation Xers haven't ruined the planet at all. We've ruined our most valuable resource. Not the environment, but our Yoong folk.

Here in Australia, vast numbers of traditional Labor voters have abandoned the party. The main cause is the perception that traditional Labor values have been eschewed by the party in favour of the lunacy of the greens. Communism, gay rights, etc have supplanted the foundations of the movement. Look up Dr. Bob Brown. The founder of the greens. Get his views if you don't believe me. We have lied to you and let this shit happen.

I once voted Green. In my 20's I was a socialist. Then I grew up. It is said, "A man who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart. A man who is a socialist at 40 has no brain."

As a system it has always failed. It always will, eventually. The reasons are too many and varied to discuss here. The democratic West has rejected it again. For good reason, too. Not because the non believers are morons and deplorables. It's because we've been burnt before.

PS. More kids living in poverty in England than in Ethiopia? Where did you get that snippet of fantasy? Pravda?

Oh come on, that's conspiracy theory nonsense. The whole idea of higher education is to form arguments by considering different viewpoints. You are pushing the classic anti-intellectualism of the right, who, being unable to respond to the arguments, shout bias.

 

[gringo2011]

How long has he been PM, leader of the opposition. Must be a fast worker. Revise and think. How can he have created an entire generation of poor kids? Wasn't Tony Blair PM for a long time as the generation of doomers were growing up? Any blame there?

Park the bias for a bit. Your generation have been at a disadvantage of being indoctrinated by the ... I am too foolish to read the site rules of academia, who themselves were raised in an ideological sheltered workshop. No ad hominen, CU, but my children are of your generation, so I'm well aware of the nonsense they were plied with.

The result is on the streets of England as we speak. Self entitled narcissists who cannot accept alternative opinions, who lack resilience, the ability to think critically, only to criticise. The "everyone gets a prize generation" that could be whatever they wanted to be, unfettered by the realities of life.

The hope is actually with the older generation. We are to blame for the current situation, because we let it happen. We have one generation to repair it. How. Through voting for sensible. US, Australia, GB, even Greece elected its first conservative government since WW2.

It is our fault. We generation Xers haven't ruined the planet at all. We've ruined our most valuable resource. Not the environment, but our Yoong folk.

Here in Australia, vast numbers of traditional Labor voters have abandoned the party. The main cause is the perception that traditional Labor values have been eschewed by the party in favour of the lunacy of the greens. Communism, gay rights, etc have supplanted the foundations of the movement. Look up Dr. Bob Brown. The founder of the greens. Get his views if you don't believe me. We have lied to you and let this shit happen.

I once voted Green. In my 20's I was a socialist. Then I grew up. It is said, "A man who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart. A man who is a socialist at 40 has no brain."

As a system it has always failed. It always will, eventually. The reasons are too many and varied to discuss here. The democratic West has rejected it again. For good reason, too. Not because the non believers are morons and deplorables. It's because we've been burnt before.

PS. More kids living in poverty in England than in Ethiopia? Where did you get that snippet of fantasy? Pravda?

You sound like an Alt-right troll. Have a listen to this guy, he's on the progressive side of thinking but he talks about the push to the left on campuses and the way they will get controversial right talks cancelled, he says that at 18 you really need a range of views not deciding that you are already fully formed. He's very fair minded and well considered in his view. I think you are snapping to a polar opposite view rather than having a balanced viewpoint Drake.

It's an interesting listen and might be again, a good reminder not to get extreme in your thinking on both sides. I'm never scared of ideas and being challenged. I can listen to Jordan Petersen and not agree with him but see that some has merit and plenty doesn't. We all want black and white opinions and these days people are time poor so want people with strong ideas to feed us our ideologies. I'm never good with people who are too confident in their opinions, it shows a lack of smarts IMO. A good philosopher shouldn't be rigid.

Weren't the deplorables the fringe right wing racist nutters and armed survivalist goon bags that were all over Breitbart and 4Chan?

Free speech crisis on campus? - ABC listen

With freedom of speech at Australian universities currently under governmental review, we explore the notion of free speech on campus. Should what gets said at universities - and who gets to say it - be regulated? And is the supposed "free speech crisis" just a front for the culture wars?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Crusty Undies]

How long has he been PM, leader of the opposition. Must be a fast worker. Revise and think. How can he have created an entire generation of poor kids? Wasn't Tony Blair PM for a long time as the generation of doomers were growing up? Any blame there?

Park the bias for a bit. Your generation have been at a disadvantage of being indoctrinated by the ... I am too foolish to read the site rules of academia, who themselves were raised in an ideological sheltered workshop. No ad hominen, CU, but my children are of your generation, so I'm well aware of the nonsense they were plied with.

The result is on the streets of England as we speak. Self entitled narcissists who cannot accept alternative opinions, who lack resilience, the ability to think critically, only to criticise. The "everyone gets a prize generation" that could be whatever they wanted to be, unfettered by the realities of life.

The hope is actually with the older generation. We are to blame for the current situation, because we let it happen. We have one generation to repair it. How. Through voting for sensible. US, Australia, GB, even Greece elected its first conservative government since WW2.

It is our fault. We generation Xers haven't ruined the planet at all. We've ruined our most valuable resource. Not the environment, but our Yoong folk.

Here in Australia, vast numbers of traditional Labor voters have abandoned the party. The main cause is the perception that traditional Labor values have been eschewed by the party in favour of the lunacy of the greens. Communism, gay rights, etc have supplanted the foundations of the movement. Look up Dr. Bob Brown. The founder of the greens. Get his views if you don't believe me. We have lied to you and let this shit happen.

I once voted Green. In my 20's I was a socialist. Then I grew up. It is said, "A man who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart. A man who is a socialist at 40 has no brain."

As a system it has always failed. It always will, eventually. The reasons are too many and varied to discuss here. The democratic West has rejected it again. For good reason, too. Not because the non believers are morons and deplorables. It's because we've been burnt before.

PS. More kids living in poverty in England than in Ethiopia? Where did you get that snippet of fantasy? Pravda?

Ok boomer. Boris Johnson has had his fingers in foreign policy for coincidentally the same period of time as immigration into Britain has doubled. In the last year alone a further 10% of kids are now living in poverty in Britain, 35% total, above the 32% of Ethiopia. So no actually, I got it from independent sources that old mate Rupert Murdoch doesn't have his grubby mits in. Unlike you apparently

 

[Drake Huggins]

Oh come on, that's conspiracy theory nonsense. The whole idea of higher education is to form arguments by considering different viewpoints. You are pushing the classic anti-intellectualism of the right, who, being unable to respond to the arguments, shout bias.

When did you go to university in Australia? Anti intellectual? Pot, kettle, black. Enjoy your irrelevance and your echo chamber. You have no idea about the education system here. Not that it stops the morally and intellectually superior ... I am too foolish to read the site rules from deluding themselves that anyone who opposes them is a phillistine.

Of course, as a pom, you are brilliant at delusion, arrogance and revisionism. You have to be when you are responsible for the most rapacious, brutal and murderous regime the world has ever seen. It is estimated the British 'Enmpire" murdered more than 400 million people in its ruthless pursuit for power, which sits mainly wirh a bunch of inbred halfwits called the royal family, peers and various other hangers on.

I'm sick of condescending, irrelevant, ... I am too foolish to read the site rules propoganda. It would appear the rest of the western world's democracies are as well.

I was married to a pom. Her capacity for self delusion was fairly typical. I'll just pop you on ignore. My life just improved a tad. Merry Christmas. Enjoy 5 more years of Trump and a decade if Boris! Oh the pain!

Ok boomer. Boris Johnson has had his fingers in foreign policy for coincidentally the same period of time as immigration into Britain has doubled. In the last year alone a further 10% of kids are now living in poverty in Britain, 35% total, above the 32% of Ethiopia. So no actually, I got it from independent sources that old mate Rupert Murdoch doesn't have his grubby mits in. Unlike you apparently

Ok doomer.

 

[Drake Huggins]

When did you go to university in Australia? Anti intellectual? Pot, kettle, black. Enjoy your irrelevance and your echo chamber. You have no idea about the education system here. Not that it stops the morally and intellectually superior ... I am too foolish to read the site rules from deluding themselves that anyone who opposes them is a phillistine.

Of course, as a pom, you are brilliant at delusion, arrogance and revisionism. You have to be when you are responsible for the most rapacious, brutal and murderous regime the world has ever seen. It is estimated the British 'Enmpire" murdered more than 400 million people in its ruthless pursuit for power, which sits mainly wirh a bunch of inbred halfwits called the royal family, peers and various other hangers on.

I'm sick of condescending, irrelevant, ... I am too foolish to read the site rules propoganda. It would appear the rest of the western world's democracies are as well.

I was married to a pom. Her capacity for self delusion was fairly typical. I'll just pop you on ignore. My life just improved a tad. Merry Christmas. Enjoy 5 more years of Trump and a decade if Boris! Oh the pain!

 

[Drake Huggins]

Ok boomer. Boris Johnson has had his fingers in foreign policy for coincidentally the same period of time as immigration into Britain has doubled. In the last year alone a further 10% of kids are now living in poverty in Britain, 35% total, above the 32% of Ethiopia. So no actually, I got it from independent sources that old mate Rupert Murdoch doesn't have his grubby mits in. Unlike you apparently

OK doomer. Why don't you adhere to your own lofty expectations if others and quote your sources? Afraid we'll look them up, if they actually exist? Go on, admit it. You just make shit up to suit yourself, or simply blindly belueve that which suits your confirmation bias.

 

[StFly]

Socialism largely fails because people are stupid and attribute it to Communism so fear is invoked, and that socialism to one is not socialism to others so there are only time warps to democratic socialism or social democracy and limits to socialist actions.

When did you go to university in Australia? Anti intellectual? Pot, kettle, black. Enjoy your irrelevance and your echo chamber. You have no idea about the education system here. Not that it stops the morally and intellectually superior ... I am too foolish to read the site rules from deluding themselves that anyone who opposes them is a phillistine.

At it's core, health, education, utility.

Utility was largely privatised and sold off because plastic, and they dunno.
Health is advancing as if at war and part of problems as well as solutions.
Education incurs deferred debt to breed innate fear if one succeeds or fails and re-specs.

As a nation, we don't need much else, assisted with PNG when it kinda exploded, looked calmly when Fiji up and fudged itself because we pissed our way through the middle east and people got shitty. But firstly TAFE existed so that you can "do" as well as "think" and then "proper think" if you wished to go to Uni, Uni existed if you thought and wished to think further then potentially do. That being said, if everyone ended up like Joe Hockey, I'd bugger off to NZ.

Of course, as a pom, you are brilliant at delusion, arrogance and revisionism. You have to be when you are responsible for the most rapacious, brutal and murderous regime the world has ever seen. It is estimated the British 'Enmpire" murdered more than 400 million people in its ruthless pursuit for power, which sits mainly wirh a bunch of inbred halfwits called the royal family, peers and various other hangers on.

Comes with history, whilst we are but a young child dreaming of kings. Tis no mistake that it is largely the ex British Empire considered western nations and the pinnacle of what is desired in country building. All things being equal, all nations do the exact same things and millions die in machinations of the few, after all, there is something to be said for what the Nazi's did to modernise Germany as a nation and unify a people, even if everything else died as a result of the amount fo congregated shit blokes.

Nothing like the echo chambers we all live in though, such as calling aboriginal ancestors also racist and incurring anger and recrimination simply for stating historical fact for example.

The times, they are a always changing.

I'm sick of condescending, irrelevant, ... I am too foolish to read the site rules propoganda. It would appear the rest of the western world's democracies are as well.

Like most things, your opinion and tolerance for nonsense is different to mine is different to anyone elses, as the rate of bullshit approaches, invariably a succession will call it such.

 

[Yawkey way]

You sound like an Alt-right troll. Have a listen to this guy, he's on the progressive side of thinking but he talks about the push to the left on campuses and the way they will get controversial right talks cancelled, he says that at 18 you really need a range of views not deciding that you are already fully formed. He's very fair minded and well considered in his view. I think you are snapping to a polar opposite view rather than having a balanced viewpoint Drake.

It's an interesting listen and might be again, a good reminder not to get extreme in your thinking on both sides. I'm never scared of ideas and being challenged. I can listen to Jordan Petersen and not agree with him but see that some has merit and plenty doesn't. We all want black and white opinions and these days people are time poor so want people with strong ideas to feed us our ideologies. I'm never good with people who are too confident in their opinions, it shows a lack of smarts IMO. A good philosopher shouldn't be rigid.

Weren't the deplorables the fringe right wing racist nutters and armed survivalist goon bags that were all over Breitbart and 4Chan?

Free speech crisis on campus? - ABC listen

With freedom of speech at Australian universities currently under governmental review, we explore the notion of free speech on campus. Should what gets said at universities - and who gets to say it - be regulated? And is the supposed "free speech crisis" just a front for the culture wars?

www.abc.net.au

The deplorables were anyone presumably in her eyes stupid enough to vote trump, she had a few categories but basically millions of Americans.

Others including Obama have made similar insulting comments about opposition supporters, anyway watch the video and her take back and make up your own mind. I guess if you want to focus on the undesirable and extreme supporters of any candidate your going to find very ugly views.

My impression watching her at the time was of a deliberately insulting and incredibly arrogant candidate.

All of my kids none of which could ever be described as right of centre openly acknowledge that they’ve seen students persecuted for questioning left wing views. Their also adamant that if you care about your marks and an easy life then you should simply fall into line.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

The deplorables were anyone presumably in her eyes stupid enough to vote trump, she had a few categories but basically millions of Americans.

Others including Obama have made similar insulting comments about opposition supporters, anyway watch the video and her take back and make up your own mind. I guess if you want to focus on the undesirable and extreme supporters of any candidate your going to find very ugly views.

My impression watching her at the time was of a deliberately insulting and incredibly arrogant candidate.

All of my kids none of which could ever be described as right of centre openly acknowledge that’s they’ve seen students persecuted for questioning left wing views. Their also adamant that if you care about your marks and an easy life then you should simply fall into line.

It's all so sad. No wonder the silent majority vote for the centre or centre-right parties and can't be bothered being vocal anymore. The education system has unfortunately gone left wing, especially in unis. It's become really bad that these sheltered academics that have achieved nothing in the real world are trying to brainwash kids out of high school. It doesn't prepare them well at all for the harsh realities of the real world and they get a massive shock when they enter it. I have seen it many times with my own eyes.

Also, Clinton with that comment pretty much called half the voters morons in the US and UK left wing politicians and their supporters are doing it again, even after the election result that gave Brexit a massive thumbs up. Its unbelievably arrogant and stupid on so many levels from that side of politics. They are not very smart people obviously even though they claim to be superior above all others on mother Earth! The sheer arrogance is mystifying.

But anyway, it's democracy at work. At least we have less government in our lives at the moment. Businesses, people and communities will do better jobs at some things than government.

Also, nothing comes free. Someone pays for it somewhere. Good accounting means good economy.

 

[CursingFijian]

The '... I am too foolish to read the site rules' have always been pushing toward the future and the 'rightwing deplorables' have always been pulling towards the past. The rest of us are socialist Trotskyists to be equally despised by the left and the right. It has always been this way, and I often think it always will, such is life. There will be golden eras of social change flanked by lengthy periods of social preservation.

What is changing is demographics, which Yawkey way spoke about earlier, and it's definitely having a profound impact on many aspects of the world. People are living longer in the developed world, families are smaller and the fertility rate is declining. It means there is an irreversible trend towards a growing percentage of older generations in each countries voting block.

"In 1900, ca. 5% or less of the populations of the West were aged 65 and over, a proportion relatively unchanged for centuries. By the year 2000, the proportion of Europe’s population aged 65 and over had trebled to 15%. If birth and death rates were to remain as they are in 2001, and ignoring migration, Western populations would eventually acquire stable population structures with between 22 and 35% of their populations aged 65 and over" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1692968/pdf/12028794.pdf).

Currently in the US people over the age of 65 represent 16.0% of the total population and if you do the maths that equates to 20.6% of people over the legal age to vote. (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/AGE775218#AGE775218) Boomers and GenX firmly have their hands on the democratic levers of power, and as more and more of us exit the workforce, we are inclined to listen to the politicians that promise to protect our wealth and well-being, regardless of it's affect on the younger generations.

I think Drake Huggins is on the money when he says get ready for more of the same, especially in the next 5 - 10 years. And I can understand why younger people like Crusty Undies might feel like they are banging their agendas for change on a boomer brick wall. I do think the environment will (has?) become the driving force behind the next era of profound social transformation, and I think the developed world is in that stage of social anxiety, across the entire social/political/economic spectrum, that always accompanies change.

 

[jwikked]

At least we have less government in our lives at the moment

That's not true at all, though. The LNP have brought in so many different tools to spy on Australian citizens its beyond a joke. Couple that with mandatory metadata retention by ISPs (and the AG's total inability to even explain what metadata was, let alone the bill itself) and the laws that force you to hand over your phones password when requested or face jail...

The Government has never been more involved in our lives. We don't have "less Government in our lives" it's never been worse. And it's all thanks to the LNP passing bills under the guise of national security (so Labor wouldn't dare question anything) and now it's only a matter of time before these systems get hacked and extremely personal and potentially embarrassing data is released to the highest bidder. People thought the Ashley Madison hack was damaging?


Not to mention the Government now being able to tell us what websites we are and aren't allowed to visit. The banning of certain websites after the NZ Mosque attacks was Government overreach at its finest. Although they didn't go after Facebook. Wonder why?

 

[bergholt]

Also, nothing comes free. Someone pays for it somewhere. Good accounting means good economy.

I think you mean a balanced budget, but that's just not true of governments. If you're thinking the government budget is like a household then you're dangerously wrong.

The government can and should borrow money because it gets lower borrowing costs than any individual or company. It should spend that money on delivering services that others can't deliver well (education, healthcare, emergency services, military), and creating productive assets that no-one else will (roads, infrastructure, some companies). It should also use that money to entice the private sector to do things good for the country's economy (industry clusters, research and development, local production), and redistribute some wealth to those more likely to spend it (tax the rich, give it to the poor - makes jobs and economic activity).

If it does all these things effectively then the economy grows and future tax revenue more than pays off the cost of borrowing (across 10, 15, 20 year timeframes government bonds don't cost much).

Your point was "someone pays for it somewhere". Yeah, government borrowing used well means taxpayers in the future (in a better economy) pay for services today. That's a great state of affairs. It's the same as your house being bought by you in 20+ years - you borrow now to buy it, you take possession now, but your future salary (which is surely higher than today) pays for it.

But if governments don't borrow well then we're at the mercy of hoping that jobs (and tax revenue) magically appear from somewhere just so that we can still have police and healthcare and education and a military in the future. Same as if you don't take out a mortgage and only buy the house when you can afford it - when you're 70, if at all.

 

[sunny3193]

The most annoying ear worm in existence?
The Muzak tune played in Ezeloo automatic public toilets.
Been with me since breakfast.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

The most annoying ear worm in existence?
The Muzak tune played in Ezeloo automatic public toilets.
Been with me since breakfast.

"Welcome to Exeloo. Press button to close and lock door"
"*Airlock sound* Door locked, your maximum use time is 10 minutes. Press button to unlock door"

*Thats the actual song*

 

[MUFKilda]

When did you go to university in Australia? Anti intellectual? Pot, kettle, black. Enjoy your irrelevance and your echo chamber. You have no idea about the education system here. Not that it stops the morally and intellectually superior ... I am too foolish to read the site rules from deluding themselves that anyone who opposes them is a phillistine.

Of course, as a pom, you are brilliant at delusion, arrogance and revisionism. You have to be when you are responsible for the most rapacious, brutal and murderous regime the world has ever seen. It is estimated the British 'Enmpire" murdered more than 400 million people in its ruthless pursuit for power, which sits mainly wirh a bunch of inbred halfwits called the royal family, peers and various other hangers on.

I'm sick of condescending, irrelevant, ... I am too foolish to read the site rules propoganda. It would appear the rest of the western world's democracies are as well.

I was married to a pom. Her capacity for self delusion was fairly typical. I'll just pop you on ignore. My life just improved a tad. Merry Christmas. Enjoy 5 more years of Trump and a decade if Boris! Oh the pain!

Wow, you're an angry man, and so sensitive for an Aussie bloke . It doesn't take much for you put folk on ignore, and I'm sorry you feel the need. I only said that your assertion that academia filled with left wing bias is totally unfounded. You're right, I didn't go to university in Australia, but exactly the same accusation is made over here as well as in the States. It seems to be a global fear amongst to some right wingers, bordering upon paranoia, and it seems to have escalated in the internet era. Some of the same people accuse climatologists, who work with hard data, of also being part of some mysterious left wing conspiracy to make people believe in man made climate change. Some also push the 'Cultural Marxism' conspiracy theory. It's nuts, mate.

I studied History as an undergrad and postgrad, and can honestly say my tutors were not pushing a Marxist interpretation of history. I don't know what their political views were, as they didn't say; rather, they asked us to present our views with evidence. No historian who wants to be taken seriously engages in polemic; they have to be empirical and teach that method to their students. On the contrary to being indoctrinated, we were encouraged to ask questions and from solid arguments, and I would be astonished if university teaching in a country like Australia, where the principle of academic freedom is also paramount, is any different. It isn't North Korea.

This '... I am too foolish to read the site rules' nonsense really isn't helpful in a reasonable discussion. Again it shows you to be very angry for some reason; personal insults are not necessary. Can't you just accept that some people see society very differently from yourself? We are not part of a giant conspiracy to brainwash your youth. It may be the case that most academics, being part of the education system, are left wing, as their institution may be better funded by centre-left governments. It wouldn't surprise me. However, their personal views wouldn't prevent them working with integrity, same as in any other profession.

Perhaps the American-Canadian comedian Stephen Colbert was just correct during his roast of Dubya Bush at a White House dinner, that "the truth has a well known liberal
bias."

Anyway I hope you had a merry Christmas and wish you well for 2020.

P.S. I entirely agree with your scathing analysis of the history of the British Empire, though, being a '... I am too foolish to read the site rules' you wouldn't expect me to be an imperialist.

 

[bergholt]

The most annoying ear worm in existence?
The Muzak tune played in Ezeloo automatic public toilets.
Been with me since breakfast.

Exeloo - perfect example of automated systems that drain society's wealth. Every time an Exeloo is purchased someone pays a bunch of money to an overseas company (based in NZ) and fires some cleaners. So then there are fewer local jobs and more money going offshore. This sort of automation across many areas is going to kill local economies.