Discussion Random Discussion

[Stewart66]

View attachment 833695

Heard they have run out scarves ....still plenty of paper bags in supply

 

[gringo2011]

Indigenous Navy cadets on deck at RSEA Park

St Kilda Football Club has welcomed the Navy Indigenous Development Program (NIDP) in for a special tour of RSEA Park before the Australian Defence Force AFL National Carnival.

www.saints.com.au

I'm not sure how I feel about that program. Take people who have struggled and turn them into cannon fodder. Sometimes the discipline of the armed forces can turn lives around if you are getting into trouble but being in the defence force can quickly end your life.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'm not sure how I feel about that program. Take people who have struggled and turn them into cannon fodder. Sometimes the discipline of the armed forces can turn lives around if you are getting into trouble but being in the defence force can quickly end your life.

They are educating and up-skilling people who obviously have had limited exposure to a decent education. Can’t see what’s wrong with that. Who says they’re going to be the front lines anywhere? “Cannon fodder” a little extreme, surely?

 

[gringo2011]

They are educating and up-skilling people who obviously have had limited exposure to a decent education. Can’t see what’s wrong with that. Who says they’re going to be the front lines anywhere? “Cannon fodder” a little extreme, surely?

The armed forces all over the world are struggling to find people who want to volunteer, so they are finding ways to attract the vulnerable. There is something that sits a little bit wrong with it to me. You are taking on the desperate instead of society trying to work out why those people missed out on opportunity in the first place. In some cases it can redirect lives into positive paths so it's not always bad either. It's a moral conundrum. Unfortunately we still have them when dealing with our indigenous citizens.

Cannon fodder is hyperbolic for sure, it's just a shame that the only way to redirect kids who have not come through the system with a basic education is into the armed forces. These kids have such a limited set of choices and not something most kids in urban areas have to make. It shows how the gap is still pretty wide in some cases.

Anyway, hopefully they get great opportunity from the experience. One of my cousins did officer training and was given a free education through Royal Duntroon and he's a super disciplined organised guy. His two siblings are the opposite so maybe there is something in it. He has nothing to do with the army any more and just got what he wanted out of it. Hopefully these kids do the same.

 

[sammm]

They are educating and up-skilling people who obviously have had limited exposure to a decent education. Can’t see what’s wrong with that. Who says they’re going to be the front lines anywhere? “Cannon fodder” a little extreme, surely?

and we are not in WWI.

go look at the movie no man's land. now thats cannon fodder.

 

[gringo2011]

and we are not in WWI.

go look at the movie no man's land. now thats cannon fodder.

I wouldn't want my kids in the defence force.

 

[George]

I wouldn't want my kids in the defence force.

My best mate has been in the ADF (Army) for 11 years as a rifleman, just had a stint in Afghanistan. Basically as a rifleman, if things kick off, he is on the front line.

Said the army changed his life. And it's not as dangerous as people may think.

 

[Stewart66]

My best mate has been in the ADF (Army) for 11 years as a rifleman, just had a stint in Afghanistan. Basically as a rifleman, if things kick off, he is on the front line.

Said the army changed his life. And it's not as dangerous as people may think.

Unfortunately couple of my mates did Vietnam , I missed the draft by 1 day .

They came back stuffed up mentally both of them .

 

[George]

Unfortunately couple of my mates did Vietnam , I missed the draft by 1 day .

They came back stuffed up mentally both of them .

That's horrible. But that was an active war. Most of what my mate does when he is shipped out is patrol. It's a lot safer these days than most would expect.

 

[Stewart66]

That's horrible. But that was an active war. Most of what my mate does when he is shipped out is patrol. It's a lot safer these days than most would expect.

yeah mate admire club doing the “Soldier On “ think it’s something special.

 

[Sir Skid]

Unfortunately couple of my mates did Vietnam , I missed the draft by 1 day .

They came back stuffed up mentally both of them .

So many came back like that. Tragic

 

[Blended]

My best mate has been in the ADF (Army) for 11 years as a rifleman, just had a stint in Afghanistan. Basically as a rifleman, if things kick off, he is on the front line.

Said the army changed his life. And it's not as dangerous as people may think.

He is an absolute gem of a person as well! Also, how fast has that 11 years gone George ?

 

[George]

He is an absolute gem of a person as well! Also, how fast has that 11 years gone George ?

Very!! Haha

 

[Moral Decay]

I'm not sure how I feel about that program. Take people who have struggled and turn them into cannon fodder. Sometimes the discipline of the armed forces can turn lives around if you are getting into trouble but being in the defence force can quickly end your life.

Very difficult, my youngest brother joined up a tick over 30 years ago, every one that in his intake was from a broken family, seemingly they looked for kids that needed discipline and structure, but institutionalised bullying and alcoholism and a fair amount of us against them (ie. the rest of society) and things fall apart pretty quickly, 1 suicide and 2 attempted in basic training. If they can get through that things are still tough but guys know what they are doing by that point, when they get out is when things really fall apart.

My brother and most of his mates simply didn't have the most basic life skills to deal with civvy street or the civilian job market, let alone intimate relationships. In the last 20 years only a handful have made functional lives, chronic alcohol problems, depression and another three have succumbed to suicide. It can be argued that these young men were fairly damaged when they joined up, and they would have problems in life anyway, you could say that that was 30 years ago and things have changed, but right now I'm dealing with a workmate that has been out for ten years and he has a lot of the same problems.

Maybe things have changed, maybe Duntroon or the Airforce is a good idea, going on all the blokes I have known in the Army or Navy I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

 

[gringo2011]

Very difficult, my youngest brother joined up a tick over 30 years ago, every one that in his intake was from a broken family, seemingly they looked for kids that needed discipline and structure, but institutionalised bullying and alcoholism and a fair amount of us against them (ie. the rest of society) and things fall apart pretty quickly, 1 suicide and 2 attempted in basic training. If they can get through that things are still tough but guys know what they are doing by that point, when they get out is when things really fall apart.

My brother and most of his mates simply didn't have the most basic life skills to deal with civvy street or the civilian job market, let alone intimate relationships. In the last 20 years only a handful have made functional lives, chronic alcohol problems, depression and another three have succumbed to suicide. It can be argued that these young men were fairly damaged when they joined up, and they would have problems in life anyway, you could say that that was 30 years ago and things have changed, but right now I'm dealing with a workmate that has been out for ten years and he has a lot of the same problems.

Maybe things have changed, maybe Duntroon or the Airforce is a good idea, going on all the blokes I have known in the Army or Navy I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

Some parallels with the AFL system in that but without the more challenging backgrounds. Lots of ex players really struggle post footy for all the same reasons. The discipline, structure, friendships and goals drop away and a lot are all at sea. Anyway, I just hope they get something out of the experience that is positive and don't have the same issues as the guys you mentioned.

 

[NextYearPlease]

and we are not in WWI.

go look at the movie no man's land. now thats cannon fodder.

It's also Hollywood.

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PoppedCorn]

They can fight their own war
I aint going

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

My best mate has been in the ADF (Army) for 11 years as a rifleman, just had a stint in Afghanistan. Basically as a rifleman, if things kick off, he is on the front line.

Said the army changed his life. And it's not as dangerous as people may think.

My mate was in the Navy for a few years on the patrol boats in darwin.

Once he had a kid he wanted back home. They sent him to Sydney instead.

Didnt have the greatest of time.
Most 21 year olds are out parting. He was picking up dead asylum seekers out of the water.



He left after a few years and now drives trains.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

I dunno bout ya'll but personally I just think it's great that we're involved in all the middle east conflicts serving US business interests

 

[StFly]

Maybe things have changed, maybe Duntroon or the Airforce is a good idea, going on all the blokes I have known in the Army or Navy I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

I've a sister and in law in the ADF (Airforce), put bluntly I don't trust her with a weapon, but it is what it is and I don't begrudge the choice made, nor would I really recommend it as an institution as it's transitory and you lose a fair bit of "connection".

I'm not liking that my nephew is likely to follow in footsteps and has already moved 2x.

 

[Moral Decay]

I've a sister and in law in the ADF (Airforce), put bluntly I don't trust her with a weapon, but it is what it is and I don't begrudge the choice made, nor would I really recommend it as an institution as it's transitory and you lose a fair bit of "connection".

I'm not liking that my nephew is likely to follow in footsteps and has already moved 2x.

It really is difficult to know what to think I can see the benefits too, my brother got a trade and mates for life and while my he loathes the idea of National Service, "people shouldn't be forced to put up with this shit", a single year or maybe two with an option of continuing might be palatable particularly if it could lead to vocational training, or optional continuing service. As I understand it though the Defence Force is very against the idea, they're not interested in taking a parenting role and the direction of warfare being so much more tech focused, general enlistment has no upside for recruiters.

The gun thing is certainly an issue in Bill's generation the weaponry were seen as tools, anyone who fetishized them was very much seen as a sicko and shunned, not sure that is still happening, the young fellas I know going in have a different feeling for guns.

 

[gringo2011]

I dunno bout ya'll but personally I just think it's great that we're involved in all the middle east conflicts serving US business interests

These kind of US political interests. Guys who are morally incorruptible?

 

[Stewart66]

I dunno bout ya'll but personally I just think it's great that we're involved in all the middle east conflicts serving US business interests

You mean these

The shady oil company behind Syria’s hidden war - I Am Awake

An oil company which is backed by some prominent media and political figures is quietly dictating the game in Syria

www.iamawake.co

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

You mean these

The shady oil company behind Syria’s hidden war - I Am Awake

An oil company which is backed by some prominent media and political figures is quietly dictating the game in Syria

www.iamawake.co

well I don't have the energy to cross check them claims but I wouldn't be surprised if it all adds up. The whole thing is cooked.

 

[MUFKilda]

Lost my Big Footy countdown clock for some reason. How many days now until round 1?