Discussion Random Discussion

[SaintsSeptember]

Problem with driverless cars is if they are on the same roads as human drivers.

Not sure how you can programme a car to be aware of stupidity...

When we have automated level crossings that close 15 minutes before the train comes, remain closed when the train is parked in the station , then have to stay closed because another train is coming the other way in 10 minutes, its hard to believe that automated cars won't just cause massive gridlock, while they all wait an hour to make a safe right hand turn.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

we are currently doing this at work with mining equipment ... especially in underground aplications where safety is a huge issue the driverless or remote operated equipment is performing remarkably well even in the open pit we are having great results with driverless trucks working in tandem with convential operator driven trucks.. the proximity sensors on the trucks are basically ending collisions and with the engine sensors, brake monitoring and computer driven gear changes the mechanical life of the trucks is improving... honestly i dont see it being a bridge too far for the technology to be implemented into the car market

Very different situation though. Automated trains should be possible WAY before automated cars. In fact they are ... just not in our Country ( which our government keeps telling us is heading for a hi tech future ).

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Very different situation though. Automated trains should be possible WAY before automated cars. In fact they are ... just not in our Country ( which our government keeps telling us is heading for a hi tech future ).

this is the thing ... you talk about automation in regards to level crossings not being efficent.. that because its government investment they are not really looking for the most efficent they are looking for the cheapest to somewhat do the job.. the private sector who are pushing this automation in mining are not worried as much about the cost they are more concerned on it actually working and working efficently so it starts to pay for itself ... giving high tech to government is like giving basketball to a gorilla sure they might be able to bounce it but they aint going to be Michael Jordan..
the first phase of automation was seting geo boundarys that the trucks basically follow so in effect being a train on tracks.. the new tech is about proximity sensors so while the program to get from point a to point b is still there the system is smart enough to use sensors to navigate around obsticals and modify the route from a to b without human intervention ...again we are just scratching the surface on what we can do..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

this is the thing ... you talk about automation in regards to level crossings not being efficent.. that because its government investment they are not really looking for the most efficent they are looking for the cheapest to somewhat do the job.. the private sector who are pushing this automation in mining are not worried as much about the cost they are more concerned on it actually working and working efficently so it starts to pay for itself ... giving high tech to government is like giving basketball to a gorilla sure they might be able to bounce it but they aint going to be Michael Jordan..
the first phase of automation was seting geo boundarys that the trucks basically follow so in effect being a train on tracks.. the new tech is about proximity sensors so while the program to get from point a to point b is still there the system is smart enough to use sensors to navigate around obsticals and modify the route from a to b without human intervention ...again we are just scratching the surface on what we can do..

Yeah i agree.
My level crossing scenario was just to highlight.... where we are going and where we are now.
Its a long way off IMO. I'd say it will start with trucks ( road trains ?) on specially designated roads that are not too complicated.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yeah i agree.
My level crossing scenario was just to highlight.... where we are going and where we are now.
Its a long way off IMO. I'd say it will start with trucks ( road trains ?) on specially designated roads that are not too complicated.

I don't think it's as far away as you think, all Tesla cars have the capability of full automation, only reason they can't is because there isn't a country in the world that has legalised driverless cars yet..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't think it's as far away as you think, all Tesla cars have the capability of full automation, only reason they can't is because there isn't a country in the world that has legalised driverless cars yet..

No that's crap.

 

[StCicatriz]

When my computer starts consistently booting up and my smartphone stops crashing and the autocorrect on MS Word starts doing what I actually want it to do maybe I'll start believing that we're ready for driverless cars. Here in Japan there is testing for them happening all the time, I think a test driver was killed about a year ago. Hopefully no schoolkids get run over by the things. Not that people aren't capable of it too, but jeez. Imagine how a parent would feel knowing it was an experimental driverless car.

already in operation here in south perth. been in place for months. yet to kill anyone

there's already a whole bunch of automation happening now that you probably dont even know is happening

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure about driverless just yet... A bit like recycled sewerage water for drinking.

Not sure what the answer is but the taxi industry needs a serious shake up or it will die.

The taxi industry is still reasonably solid, Uber is more likely to fold than taxis the moment.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

already in operation here in south perth. been in place for months. yet to kill anyone

there's already a whole bunch of automation happening now that you probably dont even know is happening

Anything on a "special track" is not what we are talking about though.
Yes you can make things go and stop and not crash into things in front and follow a track, or a line or a magnetic field . Kids at school can do it. Electric train sets can do it.

The difference between that , and getting your car to drive you home from the pub is a long long long way.

Tesla's "Autopilot" is adaptive cruise control with the ability to follow a line. Imagine the fun kids with a spray can or reel of tape could have.

 

[gringo2011]

Problem with driverless cars is if they are on the same roads as human drivers.

Not sure how you can programme a car to be aware of stupidity...

They are already pretty amazing. My brother in law has a best friend who was on Punt road in a new Jaguar, he was sitting still at a red light when the car started making an electronic beeping and locked all the seat belts and seats down and started feathering the break...it had impact detection equipment and predicted the impact of a fast approaching car from behind. It's incredible technology, he reckons you hardly felt any real impact from a car running up the back of him at about 50kms.
My father in law has a 2017 Benz with lane following detectors and spacial awareness. You can literally let the car drive it's self on a freeway. Every 20 minutes it legally has to start telling you to take over again then you can stick cruise on again and go. All the Teslas have it, we tried to talk him into buying one and went for a test drive, the car gives you whiplash in sports mode and will drive on auto pilot. The electric drive is so far superior to petrol, the power feeds straight in and you literally can feel the G force.

The biggest issue with the driverless tech is the computer has to make value judgements like if it's going to run down an old woman or a bunch of school children in unavoidable collisions.

A friend works for Google and he has had a bit to do with the Google car that has been driving around the US for a few years. A while ago the only death was from a bike rider who was at fault.

 

[gringo2011]

No that's crap.

This is Tesla in auto pilot mode

 

[StCicatriz]

Anything on a "special track" is not what we are talking about though.
Yes you can make things go and stop and not crash into things in front and follow a track, or a line or a magnetic field . Kids at school can do it. Electric train sets can do it.

The difference between that , and getting your car to drive you home from the pub is a long long long way.

Tesla's "Autopilot" is adaptive cruise control with the ability to follow a line. Imagine the fun kids with a spray can or reel of tape could have.

i dont think its that far off at all:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...s-notches-up-2000-passengers-in-trial/8354524

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/everything-you-need-to-know-about-driverless-cars/8336322

i remember when i first studied comp sci in the early 00s the talk was about how great it would be to have a small enough device where you had the bandwidth capable of browsing the net, watching videos and music. all streamable.

the devices at the time were shit, screens too small. touch screens at airports were just coming in and people claimed they were unresponsive and the technology poor.

less than 5 years later and bang, its all there!!!

then there's things like vitualisation thats now been mastered and turned into what you would know as the cloud

technological jumps happen quicker than people expect it and they dont see it coming because a company isnt going to be completely open about what their R&D is

that start will be things like buses. especially those that have bus lanes. or logistics type movement.

 

[StCicatriz]

They are already pretty amazing. My brother in law has a best friend who was on Punt road in a new Jaguar, he was sitting still at a red light when the car started making an electronic beeping and locked all the seat belts and seats down and started feathering the break...it had impact detection equipment and predicted the impact of a fast approaching car from behind. It's incredible technology, he reckons you hardly felt any real impact from a car running up the back of him at about 50kms.
My father in law has a 2017 Benz with lane following detectors and spacial awareness. You can literally let the car drive it's self on a freeway. Every 20 minutes it legally has to start telling you to take over again then you can stick cruise on again and go. All the Teslas have it, we tried to talk him into buying one and went for a test drive, the car gives you whiplash in sports mode and will drive on auto pilot. The electric drive is so far superior to petrol, the power feeds straight in and you literally can feel the G force.

The biggest issue with the driverless tech is the computer has to make value judgements like if it's going to run down an old woman or a bunch of school children in unavoidable collisions.

A friend works for Google and he has had a bit to do with the Google car that has been driving around the US for a few years. A while ago the only death was from a bike rider who was at fault.

that must have some amazing magnetic track it works off. must be spray paint all over the city

 

[gringo2011]

i dont think its that far off at all:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...s-notches-up-2000-passengers-in-trial/8354524

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/everything-you-need-to-know-about-driverless-cars/8336322

i remember when i first studied comp sci in the early 00s the talk was about how great it would be to have a small enough device where you had the bandwidth capable of browsing the net, watching videos and music. all streamable.

the devices at the time were shit, screens too small. touch screens at airports were just coming in and people claimed they were unresponsive and the technology poor.

less than 5 years later and bang, its all there!!!

then there's things like vitualisation thats now been mastered and turned into what you would know as the cloud

technological jumps happen quicker than people expect it and they dont see it coming because a company isnt going to be completely open about what their R&D is

that start will be things like buses. especially those that have bus lanes. or logistics type movement.

Yeah there is something called the Kardashev scale where the rate of advancement of technology speeds up constantly. The rate of technology in the next period supposedly will mean we increase in the amount of time it usually takes centuries every few years and eventually gets to a point where a few weeks will advance at the historical rate that took centuries.

 

[gringo2011]

that must have some amazing magnetic track it works off. must be spray paint all over the city

The Tesla literally drives itself along the road and is as scary as **** when it's going by itself. When it's cruising it's fine but it turns or decreases in speed it's really disconcerting. I have a need to be in control and find it very un-relaxing.

This is the car my father in law bought and it's more intuitive driver assistance. The Tesla is like a robot car, it's the devil's work I tells ya.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/pa.../explore/intelligent-technologies.module.html

 

[Crusty Undies]

No that's crap.

It's actually not... the model 3, Tesla's affordable electric car has the hardware for full automation and they have the required software but aren't allowed to release it; yet.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The sooner we get automatic cars the better - I need more time so I can work more or watch funny cat videos.

On K107 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CursingFijian]

Anything on a "special track" is not what we are talking about though.
Yes you can make things go and stop and not crash into things in front and follow a track, or a line or a magnetic field . Kids at school can do it. Electric train sets can do it.

The difference between that , and getting your car to drive you home from the pub is a long long long way.

Tesla's "Autopilot" is adaptive cruise control with the ability to follow a line. Imagine the fun kids with a spray can or reel of tape could have.

Looks like it has pretty good predictive technology and knows when to get off the 'track'!

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Anything on a "special track" is not what we are talking about though.
Yes you can make things go and stop and not crash into things in front and follow a track, or a line or a magnetic field . Kids at school can do it. Electric train sets can do it.

The difference between that , and getting your car to drive you home from the pub is a long long long way.

Tesla's "Autopilot" is adaptive cruise control with the ability to follow a line. Imagine the fun kids with a spray can or reel of tape could have.

track technology is old tech now ... we had that maybe 5 years ago but it had its limitations now there is no need for a track the sensors are more intuitive than an actual person... there is stesting goin on at the moment (again earthmoving side of things) where multiple unmanned equipment working in tandem are building roads... im talking diggin to a level with +/- 5mm, compaction to .01%, 100% grade control over a range of 400km... this stuff is incredible and its not requiring physical barriers a combination of GPS and the sensors are making it happen... driverless cars are litterally a round the corner

 

[VDS66]

The taxi industry is still reasonably solid, Uber is more likely to fold than taxis the moment.

Then what are they all crying about? They pay shit money to 457 migrants who have to ask passengers for directions and have filthy cars then wonder why people don't use them.

Taxi owners are no different to 7-11 owners IMO.

If you are correct about UBER, then all it takes is for another player to come in and offer Uber service at a competitive price point.

All things being equal and if uber cost the same as taxis, I'd still take Uber.

Just wait until we get a direct train to the airport...

 

[sunny3193]

Re this auto driverless car thingie.
I was fortunate enough to own a 5.0L Mustang GT Premium California Special convertible when I lived in the States.
The point of that car was to drive it.
Not have it drive you......

 

[StFly]

Then what are they all crying about? They pay shit money to 457 migrants who have to ask passengers for directions and have filthy cars then wonder why people don't use them.

Taxi owners are no different to 7-11 owners IMO.

If you are correct about UBER, then all it takes is for another player to come in and offer Uber service at a competitive price point.

All things being equal and if uber cost the same as taxis, I'd still take Uber.

Just wait until we get a direct train to the airport...

In a sense you are correct as both taxi drivers and 7-11 owners are prone to being robbed and being threatened with sharp objects at their person in the wee hours of the morning because another person was a shit human being emulating a dog.

But what do I know, my old man was only a taxi driver for 40 odd years...

Like most things, you have your good drivers, your average and your poor drivers, all things being equal, I'm going with whoever looks like they give a shit about their car and people in general, because I know some brilliant taxi drivers in Melbourne metro who travel the entire state.

They generally aren't the ones sitting in a queue at the airport for the easy fare.

 

[StCicatriz]

track technology is old tech now ... we had that maybe 5 years ago but it had its limitations now there is no need for a track the sensors are more intuitive than an actual person... there is stesting goin on at the moment (again earthmoving side of things) where multiple unmanned equipment working in tandem are building roads... im talking diggin to a level with +/- 5mm, compaction to .01%, 100% grade control over a range of 400km... this stuff is incredible and its not requiring physical barriers a combination of GPS and the sensors are making it happen... driverless cars are litterally a round the corner

Thats pretty damn impressive

 

[cartel]

I have never been in a really dirty taxi before. Thee Indian guys do seem like to be chatting on their hands free though.

I don't like being rated as a passenger on Uber. I have been in Ubers before and been rated as a 3 when I was very polite, chatted when the driver wanted to and was quiet when they didn't want to talk, and was sober. Not sure what else can be done.

Neither Uber nor cabs are a brilliant product in my book.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

track technology is old tech now ... we had that maybe 5 years ago but it had its limitations now there is no need for a track the sensors are more intuitive than an actual person... there is stesting goin on at the moment (again earthmoving side of things) where multiple unmanned equipment working in tandem are building roads... im talking diggin to a level with +/- 5mm, compaction to .01%, 100% grade control over a range of 400km... this stuff is incredible and its not requiring physical barriers a combination of GPS and the sensors are making it happen... driverless cars are litterally a round the corner

So they are limited to the track by the GPS.
Same as agricultural equipment.
The Tesla follows the road lines on freeways. ( so Tesla is old hat ?).

Meanwhile the Semi -automatic systems , will just make it more likely the driver is looking at his mobile phone when something unexpected happens.

It will cost a lot of money. Household cars will be no-where near first on the list.
Would make sense that trucks would be the starting point, they already cost a shitload, and you could get payback by using them round the clock, and on relatively simple roads, (freeways ). To me this would be the next logical step after the automated trucks already used on private sites.

It makes sense to spend $50K extra for electronics to make your truck work 12 hours extra each day.
It doesn't make sense to spend that for your family Corolla .