Discussion Random Discussion

[Keg on legs]

Bunch of on here

Very poor comment mate

 

[Highlander35]

Quality and tangentially relevant article.

http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/bermag...australia-day-sign-goes-viral-20160127-gmfkzg

 

[Flandersss]

I generally make sure i dont get involved in internet debates with small minded people. I know too well that opinions will not be changed. I have to say, however, you need some serious educating. Those 'others' that lived here for 40000 years before us? We are the people being accommodated here.
The 'national' anthem is not a reflection on the nation as a whole and nor is the flag. We have stolen a land mass and called it our own while committing disgusting human rights violations along the way. You should feel blessed to hear the sounds of our first people because for so long their culture has been oppressed.
I dont blame you for feeling this way, we're all a product of our environment. I just find it sad you actually think you have more right over this land than the original owners. Or at the very least, cannot fathom the culture being incorporated into our own. Do me a favour and pick up a book and do some reading or do some volunteer work, anything to gain some perspective.

* you would be called racist because you are racist.

Preach it brother.

 

[CursingFijian]

Bunch of gin jockies on here

I had to look that term up because I simply did not recognise it, and apparently gin burglar is a similar reference. Now I came from another country that was colonized by the English, but there is no Fijian word or phrase similar. Nor has the English language in Fiji sporned a turn of phrase that has similar meaning. I find it insightful that a behaviour (white males exchanging cigarettes and alcohol for sex with Australian Aborgines) can be so familiar that it has been colloquially labelled, and is still contemporary. It just illuminates what we have all been alluding to here...that Australia's past has not been so kind to the indigenous population, and may not be entirely in the past.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Utterly disgusting descent in this thread. Credit to those trying to keep the high ground here.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Utterly disgusting descent in this thread. Credit to those trying to keep the high ground here.

yeah, sadly my" keep it classy" comment didnt work.

 

[Kildonan]

For the most part, this was a frank and open discussion done respectfully and without animosity.

Thank you all for that

 

[Moral Decay]

I've kept well away from this subject as it too much resembles the Adam Goodes thread of last year. There are some truths that need to be contemplated.

Firstly that laws can only be just in their own time, the Law is a living entity itself and only reflective of the mores of our times . What happened to our first peoples, happened all over the world, it doesn't matter who it happened to it happened, acknowledge that it happened and if the legal framework needs to change then change it and create a fairer more just society. There will never be adequate recompense, because we live in an unjust and messy world, we can only try.

Everyone suffers. To argue the intrinsic specialness, positive or negative, of any group as a function of race, skin colour or culture is the definition of racism. Our treatment of young, poor pregnant white women by taking unwanted babies away from them at birth was endemic is western white cultures and not one whit better or worse than the stolen generations.

As Joe Bageant said, "a poor white man has more in common with a poor black man than he does with a rich white man."

We can argue eternally about what has happened and there will be a kernel of truth in all the arguments, though granted the emotive content will out weigh all else. The only argument we should be having is how to make the future better, for all people.

 

[Defacto]

Utterly disgusting descent in this thread. Credit to those trying to keep the high ground here.

Not pulling the piss here

I'm not mad or angry I'm just really disappointed. Just hurts to see how far back we really are and our supporters are not immune to it all

 

[CursingFijian]

Not pulling the piss here

I'm not mad or angry I'm just really disappointed. Just hurts to see how far back we really are and our supporters are not immune to it all

Defacto I married into a family that grew up in the Pilbara and has a very strong anti indigenous attitude. I have found it very difficult to even have a conversation with my Australian family regarding issues like Australia Day. It just quickly disintigrates into a diatribe about how aboriginal Australians are the ungrateful priviledged, and undeserving of the financial handouts and other benefits they are given. I am always told that I am a trouble maker for wanting to discuss it, even though I only always respond to somebody else's comments. I am always reminded that I am not originally from Australia and really shouldn't interfere. It has been suggested that I should return to where I came from and perhaps take a few of the undeserving with me.

I have to say that I always feel better after reading some of the really eloquent and thoughtful posts on the matter in the BF universe. There are ugly people swimming in our pond. But I knew that when I dipped my toes in. It's just really nice and re-affirming to know that there are others who share my sentiment and who are prepared to talk about it as well.

 

[Joffaboy]

Defacto I am always reminded that I am not originally from Australia and really shouldn't interfere. It has been suggested that I should return to where I came from and perhaps take a few of the undeserving with me.

The height of hypocricy and irony.

Wonder what they would say if an aboriginal said the same to them.

Next time they say your shouldn't interfere ask them why Australia interfered with South Africa, Turkey, Malaysia, Korea, Vietnam, East Timor, Afganistan, Iraq x 2 and now Syria.

Seems some think we have a divine right to "interfere" with others internal issues, but nobody can interfere in Australian issues unless they are Australian.

All due respect to your wife, but her family sounds like a bunch of ignorant bogan f-wits.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Think it was George Carlin that said: "Think of how stupid the average person is and realise half of them are stupider than that!"

 

[CursingFijian]

The height of hypocricy and irony.

Wonder what they would say if an aboriginal said the same to them.

Next time they say your shouldn't interfere ask them why Australia interfered with South Africa, Turkey, Malaysia, Korea, Vietnam, East Timor, Afganistan, Iraq x 2 and now Syria.

Seems some think we have a divine right to "interfere" with others internal issues, but nobody can interfere in Australian issues unless they are Australian.

All due respect to your wife, but her family sounds like a bunch of ignorant bogan f-wits.

Don't know how to feel about that last line Joff...I think you yourself have painted a picture in your head that is filled with classical stereo typical imagery. But that is key to the whole issue for me. My wife is a kind, generous, industrious, sensible living, family oriented, loving middle class mother. We have travelled to Fiji, NZ, Vietnam, Singapore, Bali and other great countries together and she has always been interested in other cultures and foreign peoples that we have met along the way.

She just can't get her head around aboriginality here in Australia. It's almost like her anti-aboriginal attitudes are intertwined with her love for her father and mother. She dare not unravel the anti-aboriginal thread because it will weaken her connection to her family, and expose her as having a history of casual racism.

My point is that you don't have to be a beer swilling, roo shooting, flip flopping, name calling person to be casually racist. You can just be a decent person who is not prepared to read, absorb and rethink some of the values that you have inherited.

 

[RoundCubic]

Every club has them but people can also say stupid things they don't mean because they are drunk or angry or making a bad joke its not right but I don't like to burn people because they wrote something stupid because they felt under attack.

I do however remember a photo from last years anti Islam rally of a guy in a Saints jacket with a swastika tattoo on the back of his head. I just thought even the Collingwood fans knew not to wear their colours that day.

We with North were the clubs most open to Aboriginal players and suffered through stupid umpiring decisions for years (how many of Winmars marks were not payed) until Essendon joined the party and things changed.
Molly was our most famous fan and our 1 premiership came because a rabbi gave Synman the dodgiest dispensation to play.

Yet there he was this Swastika tattooed Saints supporter it just proved that racism just defies all logic, can you imagine the flak that guy gets from the other neo nazi's.

 

[Kildonan]

It's odd in a way because scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. It is a social construct. Here in Australia we show signs of growing up into a much more accepting culture - but this is being led by the younger generation - many outposts of hatred persist though (racism, bigotry, homophobia etc).

 

[Kildonan]

Oh and sexism...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's odd in a way because scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. It is a social construct. Here in Australia we show signs of growing up into a much more accepting culture - but this is being led by the younger generation - many outposts of hatred persist though (racism, bigotry, homophobia etc).

Its interesting though, i've observed some groups of young people now think its cool to use the word ******. ( the n racist word in case it doesn't go through the filter ).
I don't think its necessarily racist or even in context sometimes.
I think its more to do with the rebellion thing and, its a word you can't use , and no-one gives a *&%$ about all those other *&^%ing words like the one i just replaced with miscellaneous symbols. If its OK for the winner of the gold logie to use it, its not very rebellious is it?

The word Gay is also getting widespread use in a derogatory manner, not necessary indicating homophobia or even used in context. ie that new X-box game is so gay, the previous version was much better.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Australia is definitely a huge multi-cultural melting pot compared to almost anywhere else in the world based on my travels.
Having large inflows of different cultures and expecting the domestic population to simply accept it is very difficult even for most modern, civilised societies - but it is something we have done and continue to do very well.

Bigotry, racism and discrimination is so prevalent in other countries but we don't really hear about . Now, that's not supposed to give us a pass and we should always be vigilant against it but we should also be a little kinder to our fellow Australians - in general we are a very tolerant & accepting bunch relative to most other countries.

We spend a lot of time looking in the mirror, beating ourselves over the head, calling ourselves a racist nation but I don't really think that is the case despite racism still clearly existing.

Instantly calling someone a "racist" is a gutter, dog-whistle political tactic to shut down discussion and put the other person on the defensive. We need to rise above that, realising that some truth and merit may lie in an opposing view.

 

[Nutsngum]

Its interesting though, i've observed some groups of young people now think its cool to use the word fellow. ( the n racist word in case it doesn't go through the filter ).
I don't think its necessarily racist or even in context sometimes.
I think its more to do with the rebellion thing and, its a word you can't use , and no-one gives a *&%$ about all those other *&^%ing words like the one i just replaced with miscellaneous symbols. If its OK for the winner of the gold logie to use it, its not very rebellious is it?

The word Gay is also getting widespread use in a derogatory manner, not necessary indicating homophobia or even used in context. ie that new X-box game is so gay, the previous version was much better.

Nig ger (serious, word filters are for sesame street forums, not grown adults) has been generally popularized by music for so long its become a secondary term of almost "endearment" in a strange way, even outside the black community. Im not even sure its a bad thing either. The destruction of the impact of bigotted words can have positive effects but you have to be careful not to lose the importance of why it was a bad thing in the first place.

I disagree a bit with the word gay as I have definitely heard it less and less over the last few years. *** got (AGAIN, SERIOUS DISCUSSION ARGHH) is still common as a general insult word but I think describing something as gay is slowly dying thanks to kids actually being taught at a younger age what is acceptable.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Nig ger (serious, word filters are for sesame street forums, not grown adults) has been generally popularized by music for so long its become a secondary term of almost "endearment" in a strange way, even outside the black community. Im not even sure its a bad thing either. The destruction of the impact of bigotted words can have positive effects but you have to be careful not to lose the importance of why it was a bad thing in the first place.

I disagree a bit with the word gay as I have definitely heard it less and less over the last few years. *** got (AGAIN, SERIOUS DISCUSSION ARGHH) is still common as a general insult word but I think describing something as gay is slowly dying thanks to kids actually being taught at a younger age what is acceptable.

Its something my kids came home from primary school saying. They get in trouble when they say it in front of us parents, but i know they still say it when they think they aren't being heard.
Incidentally they seem to be quite accepting when exposed to gay characters on tv shows etc.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Nig ger (serious, word filters are for sesame street forums, not grown adults) has been generally popularized by music for so long its become a secondary term of almost "endearment" in a strange way, even outside the black community. Im not even sure its a bad thing either. The destruction of the impact of bigotted words can have positive effects but you have to be careful not to lose the importance of why it was a bad thing in the first place.

I disagree a bit with the word gay as I have definitely heard it less and less over the last few years. *** got (AGAIN, SERIOUS DISCUSSION ARGHH) is still common as a general insult word but I think describing something as gay is slowly dying thanks to kids actually being taught at a younger age what is acceptable.

I took a simple approach with my kids whenever they asked me " is this word a swear word" or "can i say this word" .
I just said "if your not allowed to say it while in the classroom, then its usually because its offensive to some people so dont say it at all".
So i didnt care how many times they heard the F-bomb in movies or heard the N word in rap music. If they couldnt say it in class without getting in trouble i didnt see the point in them saying it everyday conversation.
IMO its just plain wrong for us to get blas'e about the N****R word just cos its used in music videos.
Some rapper saying "yeah my N*****S" in a song doesnt make it Ok to say N****R to some random dark complection person you meet on the street so its still a shit word to be thrown around i think.


For the record Nutsngum i wasnt picking apart your post. I just used it add my thoughts to mate

 

[Joffaboy]

Don't know how to feel about that last line Joff...I think you yourself have painted a picture in your head that is filled with classical stereo typical imagery. But that is key to the whole issue for me. My wife is a kind, generous, industrious, sensible living, family oriented, loving middle class mother. We have travelled to Fiji, NZ, Vietnam, Singapore, Bali and other great countries together and she has always been interested in other cultures and foreign peoples that we have met along the way.

She just can't get her head around aboriginality here in Australia. It's almost like her anti-aboriginal attitudes are intertwined with her love for her father and mother. She dare not unravel the anti-aboriginal thread because it will weaken her connection to her family, and expose her as having a history of casual racism.

My point is that you don't have to be a beer swilling, roo shooting, flip flopping, name calling person to be casually racist. You can just be a decent person who is not prepared to read, absorb and rethink some of the values that you have inherited.

Fair enough and I really wasn't trying to offend. Obviously don't know your family and it is not my intention to generalise.

I would say though that I loved what the new Australian of the Year said when confronting the LGBT issue recently.

I am paraphrasing but he said "I am a white middle age man who is still learning"

I found that a fantastic response. He was basically saying that his ingrained beliefs/prejuideces took a bit of undoing.

I am of the same age as he is and I agree with him. I have had to re-educate myself in the ways of race and sexuality.

I had certain beliefs from my formative years that were wrong. Becoming less racist (I am of a firm belief that most people still struggle with race) and less homophobic has, I believe made me a better, more compassionate person.

Wrong views can be unlearnt. I am not comfortable facing these issues but bad luck, that is my journey and I will take it because, well it is just right.

Again I am truly apologetic if my post offended you in any way. Not my intention at all.

 

[Nutsngum]

Its something my kids came home from primary school saying. They get in trouble when they say it in front of us parents, but i know they still say it when they think they aren't being heard.
Incidentally they seem to be quite accepting when exposed to gay characters on tv shows etc.

I am probably talking more from a high school perspective from my teaching days but I did find gay used a lot less then back in my time.

Some rapper saying "yeah my N*****S" in a song doesnt make it Ok to say N****R to some random dark complection person you meet on the street so its still a shit word to be thrown around i think.


For the record Nutsngum i wasnt picking apart your post. I just used it add my thoughts to mate

Oh yeah obviously. I am meaning in polite company that these words are being used. Saying that to a stranger is ****ing stupid.

 

[Joffaboy]

It's odd in a way because scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as race. It is a social construct. Here in Australia we show signs of growing up into a much more accepting culture - but this is being led by the younger generation - many outposts of hatred persist though (racism, bigotry, homophobia etc).

Race is literally skin deep.

Culture is a different thing alltogether

 

[CursingFijian]

Fair enough and I really wasn't trying to offend. Obviously don't know your family and it is not my intention to generalise.

I would say though that I loved what the new Australian of the Year said when confronting the LGBT issue recently.

I am paraphrasing but he said "I am a white middle age man who is still learning"

I found that a fantastic response. He was basically saying that his ingrained beliefs/prejuideces took a bit of undoing.

I am of the same age as he is and I agree with him. I have had to re-educate myself in the ways of race and sexuality.

I had certain beliefs from my formative years that were wrong. Becoming less racist (I am of a firm belief that most people still struggle with race) and less homophobic has, I believe made me a better, more compassionate person.

Wrong views can be unlearnt. I am not comfortable facing these issues but bad luck, that is my journey and I will take it because, well it is just right.

Again I am truly apologetic if my post offended you in any way. Not my intention at all.

No offense was taken Joff, But I just felt I needed to defend someone I love.

Love this post. It almost verbatim applies to me. Only difference is I am a 'coloured' middle aged man who is still learning.