Discussion Random Discussion

[sunny3193]

Really interesting perspectives coming through, great discussion.
I think it’s too glib to blame one generation over another.
All generations have their challenges, and all generations need to work hard to get ahead.
I do not pretend to know hard each of you have worked or are working.
I’ve been there and done that.
And I have no interest in getting in a pissing contest about it.
Nor am I interested in a discussion about how hard it is now, versus then.
The generations entering the workforce now will have challenges I never faced.
But then again, they won’t face the challenges I did.
The only constant we have is this: success only comes through two things: hard work and education.

Unless you sell drugs.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Good Advice.
My Daughter is hoping to get into Nursing , and i think i'll feel pretty happy with that.
My Son wants to do the computer programming thing, and i say to him, I can email a guy in India with my requirements, and he'll email me back the program, and i can pay him in Rupee's. My wife seems to think i'm being negative and trying to burst his bubble but i just want him to be careful with his choices.

Personally i have a trail of dead companies behind me. ( i like to think it wasn't my presence that killed them ).

at the end of the day if thats your sons passion while he is young he should chase it .. as i say to my friends kids who stress out about their exams that is only the start of the road life is going to take you yes try hard to get a good start but if you dont its not the end of the word while you are young learn as much as you can experiance as much as you can and most importantly find out who you are.. the blessings of youth is the fact you have time to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes... very few mistakes or wrong paths chosen made as a 16-20 yearold effect where you end up.. almost every one in my age bracket has ended up doing something differant to what they imagined they would at 16 .. it took me 3 electrocutions and one fall from a ladder to realise being an electrician wasnt the right path for me life experiances and finding skills i never knew i had got me to where i am now ambition is what guides where i am going to be in tomorrow ..
a very good friend of mine was hell bent on being a painter and he got to that point a year out of his apprenticship he had to take on running the books for the business he was at.. now 15 years later he is one of the top accountants at a pretty decent sized firm.. this is a guy who failed every year of maths in highschool...

 

[Nutsngum]

Negative gearing is just every company's right to take losses out of the profit.
If your business buys a machine and it needs to be repaired all the time you don't pay tax on profit before repair costs.
If your business buys a house to rent and it needs to be repaired, you don't pay tax on profit before repair costs.

So to get rid of negative gearing , you're really creating a regulation for a specific industry rather than removing one.

Youre ignoring the fact that people are not actually making losses on their investment properties at all. The profit is gained from the capital gains during sale rather then the rental income... which Ill point out they ALSO get a discount on. Thats the big difference from business based tax offset.

We need more engineering work, lets train engineers.
We need more science , lets train scientists.
What we really need is investment by those needing engineers and scientists.

Guess where all that investment money has been tied up in. Thats right, property.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Really interesting perspectives coming through, great discussion.
I think it’s too glib to blame one generation over another.
All generations have their challenges, and all generations need to work hard to get ahead.
I do not pretend to know hard each of you have worked or are working.
I’ve been there and done that.
And I have no interest in getting in a pissing contest about it.
Nor am I interested in a discussion about how hard it is now, versus then.
The generations entering the workforce now will have challenges I never faced.
But then again, they won’t face the challenges I did.
The only constant we have is this: success only comes through two things: hard work and education.

Unless you sell drugs.

look i might come across as a baby boomer hater and to an extent i am.. but i have respect for what the boomers achieved as a generation really i do.. but i think the boomers need to realise that its not their turn anymore and i think the genX need to be the ones leading the world, the biggest issue i see is the fact that the leaders especially in Australia have no grasp of what modern australia is like Rich old white dudes who have not been living paycheck to paycheck are not going to understand how to lift the bottom rung up. Old dudes who really only worry about the financial impact of now makeing decisions on things likethe environment.. they are writing the cheques but its the younger generations who have to deal with the fall out ..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just get him out of the habit of biting his fingernails first.
If it tastes like shit , it probably is

Used to know an Industrial Plumber. Was always in demand always charged through the absolute roof. Really good bloke, but he wasn't shy to laugh in your face about how much he earned.
He'd come in and our guys would be laughing at him because he's going down in the mud and stuff under the factory floor.
He'd just laugh and say how much he was going to earn in 2 hours and they all shut up.
He was telling me how a place where i used to work had got him to quote then bitched about the price. He shrugged and said whatever ," i've got enough work." They ended up getting domestic plumbers to quote and went with them. Spirally copper pipes from a coil DO NOT look good when they are exposed overhead in a factory.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just get him out of the habit of biting his fingernails first.
If it tastes like shit , it probably is

Used to know an Industrial Plumber. Was always in demand always charged through the absolute roof. Really good bloke, but he wasn't shy to laugh in your face about how much he earned.
He'd come in and our guys would be laughing at him because he's going down in the mud and stuff under the factory floor.
He'd just laugh and say how much he was going to earn in 2 hours and they all shut up.
He was telling me how a place where i used to work had got him to quote then bitched about the price. He shrugged and said whatever ," i've got enough work." They ended up getting domestic plumbers to quote and went with them. Spirally copper pipes from a coil DO NOT look good when they are exposed overhead in a factory.

 

[gringo2011]

Used to know an Industrial Plumber. Was always in demand always charged through the absolute roof. Really good bloke, but he wasn't shy to laugh in your face about how much he earned.
He'd come in and our guys would be laughing at him because he's going down in the mud and stuff under the factory floor.
He'd just laugh and say how much he was going to earn in 2 hours and they all shut up.
He was telling me how a place where i used to work had got him to quote then bitched about the price. He shrugged and said whatever ," i've got enough work." They ended up getting domestic plumbers to quote and went with them. Spirally copper pipes from a coil DO NOT look good when they are exposed overhead in a factory.

Yep, my father in law is a developer and sub divided a block of land, basically you have to pay to have the water connected to all the mains, one company has a contract to do it all through the water company. These guys sent one guy out with a back hoe and for 2 days work charged $45,000. I wanted his job. I'm sure there are charges for shutting things off, some extensions for the pipes etc, but still that's my kind of income.

 

[gringo2011]

look i might come across as a baby boomer hater and to an extent i am.. but i have respect for what the boomers achieved as a generation really i do.. but i think the boomers need to realise that its not their turn anymore and i think the genX need to be the ones leading the world, the biggest issue i see is the fact that the leaders especially in Australia have no grasp of what modern australia is like Rich old white dudes who have not been living paycheck to paycheck are not going to understand how to lift the bottom rung up. Old dudes who really only worry about the financial impact of now makeing decisions on things likethe environment.. they are writing the cheques but its the younger generations who have to deal with the fall out ..

I went and saw a French economist when he came out named Thomas Picketty, he put up all the figures and really what has happened is the corporate world has hijacked the worlds economies and at the same time manufacturing jobs and the middle class have had huge job losses. The inequality is blamed on the guys at the bottom of the food chain. The corporate world with their tax minimisation tricks mean there isn't enough to cover the basics for the rest of the population. Wealth discrepancy is getting much much worse. Wages haven't grown that much since the 1970s while the cost of living has massively increased. The baby boomers at least own some assets before the storm hit but they still probably struggle bill to bill too. Selling public assets to increase efficiency was the biggest crock too, we have made everything more expensive from education to health to bills.

 

[sunny3193]

the biggest issue i see is the fact that the leaders especially in Australia have no grasp of what modern australia is like Rich old white dudes who have not been living paycheck to paycheck are not going to understand how to lift the bottom rung up. Old dudes who really only worry about the financial impact of now makeing decisions on things likethe environment.. they are writing the cheques but its the younger generations who have to deal with the fall out ..

It has been ever thus.
So you are not telling me anything new.
GenX are not unique.
Boomers had the same problem when young.
As did the generations before the Boomers.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just get him out of the habit of biting his fingernails first.
If it tastes like shit , it probably is

Used to know an Industrial Plumber. Was always in demand always charged through the absolute roof. Really good bloke, but he wasn't shy to laugh in your face about how much he earned.
He'd come in and our guys would be laughing at him because he's going down in the mud and stuff under the factory floor.
He'd just laugh and say how much he was going to earn in 2 hours and they all shut up.
He was telling me how a place where i used to work had got him to quote then bitched about the price. He shrugged and said whatever ," i've got enough work." They ended up getting domestic plumbers to quote and went with them. Spirally copper pipes from a coil DO NOT look good when they are exposed overhead in a factory.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Youre ignoring the fact that people are not actually making losses on their investment properties at all. The profit is gained from the capital gains during sale rather then the rental income... which Ill point out they ALSO get a discount on. Thats the big difference from business based tax offset.


Guess where all that investment money has been tied up in. Thats right, property.

Aren't Investment Properties subject to Capital Gains Tax?.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

It has been ever thus.
So you are not telling me anything new.
GenX are not unique.
Boomers had the same problem when young.
As did the generations before the Boomers.

the main issue is that the baby boomers very openly tell us all how we have it so easy .. its a load of crock..
the boomers were successful in their generation to make change in a possitive way but in this generation any significant chage for the betterment of the word is railroaded by those old rich white dudes ..
its fine because in the end nature takes its course, our generation just hope that the damage done isnt irriversable

 

[VDS66]

Globalisation has been a massive fail and con job of the highest order.

All policy is influenced by powerful elites to maintain the status quo and protect their interests.

Democracy is a sham. Keep people in fear and pit them against each other by convincing them that their neighbors are taking what's rightfully theirs. Why do you think they demonise refugees and welfare recipients?

Nothing wrong with ambition... the excess and indulgence that has led us to where we are now.

Wanna see our future? Follow the USA.

 

[CHBench]

Good Advice.
My Daughter is hoping to get into Nursing , and i think i'll feel pretty happy with that.

Nice. I'm an RN, it's a great job when you find your niche area. Its also not as poorly paid as most think when you do your bachelors degree

 

[MacMum]

the main issue is that the baby boomers very openly tell us all how we have it so easy .. its a load of crock..
the boomers were successful in their generation to make change in a possitive way but in this generation any significant chage for the betterment of the word is railroaded by those old rich white dudes ..
its fine because in the end nature takes its course, our generation just hope that the damage done isnt irriversable

Have never heard a "white" person refer to another "white" person in that manner, so that tells me you are a person of colour.... if that is the case then you are being a racist...

...and never have I said this generation has it easy. All I've done is point out that it was hard for us too...... and also very few ordinary people have 5 houses by the way.....and if they have, good luck to them, they've obviously worked hard for the privilege. If you were born into a well off family or you won lotto, would you hand it back or would you keep it and become one of those " young *insert whichever colour" dude"? (using your turn of phrase)

I just object being told us baby boomers ruined it all for this generation.....oh, and calling someone old in the above manner is also a no-no. If you are lucky, you will get to our age, then I would love to see how you like being called old in the manner you used.

Enjoy your life, work hard and I genuinely hope things turn out well for you......bitterness will get you nowhere.

cheers.

 

[Mowman]

Nice. I'm an RN, it's a great job when you find your niche area. Its also not as poorly paid as most think when you do your bachelors degree

Nurse's do a great job and deserve every cent they get and then some.

 

[CursingFijian]

Globalisation has been a massive fail and con job of the highest order.

All policy is influenced by powerful elites to maintain the status quo and protect their interests.

Democracy is a sham. Keep people in fear and pit them against each other by convincing them that their neighbors are taking what's rightfully theirs. Why do you think they demonise refugees and welfare recipients?

Nothing wrong with ambition... the excess and indulgence that has led us to where we are now.

Wanna see our future? Follow the USA.

 

[StFly]

This is a very valid point.
obviously not ALL new home buyers want a McMansion or want a to live in a trendy suburb surrounded with cool cafes/restaurants. I realise it's a more complex issue than that.
But there are a hell of a lot of peeps who refuse to buy a shit box on the far outskirts of suburbia.

It's not a shitbox, we just don't like people who identify as city since it screams entitled princess who's never had their hand near a cows arse, so obviously can't hack not having aircon or being able to only spend 30mins before shift starting instead of say 3 hours because reasons.

Shitbox is paying someone for the privilege for a room that is akin to an actual shitbox which requires plumbing solutions.

Also, I'm over sunrise, it's overrated and sometimes blinding. Piss off sun.

 

[VDS66]

Boomers are arguably the most selfish generation of modern time.

They only care about now with total disregard for future generations.

Apart from climate destruction and obscene waste of resources... what will their legacy be for future generations?

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Interesting topics. Here's my take...

When interest rates were 18% the average loan was around $80k for me. Problem now is that $80k is barely a deposit and because of the size of the mortgage, even a 50 basis point increase will tip a lot of people over the edge.

The whole economy is built on this housing bubble. Keep your job and you should be OK.

People want and expect too much as a first home as well. It's almost beneath them to start off with a 3 bed, 1 bath old home anymore. But as stated, the money is in the land.

Government incentives are going to the wrong people imo and negative gearing has to go on old properties.

As far as businesses moving to rural areas... what sort of businesses exactly?

The difference between Germany and us is the tyranny of distance and transport. Manufacturers and exporters need proximity to ports and distribution points.

So it's not that simple. What would be a better idea is to get some decent fast trains so that people can live in Bendigo and commute to work in a shorter time.

Urban sprawl is a massive headache. I like the idea of incentives for business to go regional if you can get it to work.

However if you can't get it to work in Geelong, what hope for Bendigo?

I reckon you've nailed it here.

I moved 10 years ago with my better half to Sweden as a new uni graduate pretty much penniless. Once I'd gotten a job we started looking at apartments in the capital city here and doing some research and I started to notice something: Stockholm seemed like Melbourne 10 years previous. There were still areas close to the city considered "not good places to live" for no real reason: just that people are sheep (and what it used to be like in Melbourne... my sister in the early nineties buying a small place in Clifton Hill when no one wanted to live there... we all know that has changed and her bank balance thanks her). So I bought a cheap apartment in an undesirable area not far from the city that of course became desirable within a couple of years, sold it and bought a dream place on the outskirts of the city in the forest before people started to want to do that too and the prices are sky-rocketing too here....

The point of the above is to try and predict where people want to live before they know it and move there. It's not actually that hard but it is really surprising to me how many first home buyers aren't willing to look in less desirable areas.

The other part you touched on which is all too true is the problem with Melbourne and public transport. Sweden and Australia aren't too dissimilar in that they are big countries with sparse populations but the infrastructure here with regards public transport is simply amazing. It means I can get to my desk from the middle of the country in an hour with a short drive to a rural station, all-year round, rain, snow whatever. I miss a train? No worries, another along in 10 minutes. I could even get a bus if I didn't drive. And we're talking a small town here. But the options to not have to live in the middle of the city are there because of the great train and bus system and, this is the key, amazing internet meaning you can work from home as much as you want and start businesses from home.

Unfortunately, I see a big part of Melbourne's housing issue are due to the public transport woes and governments simply refusing to invest what is needed to have a system that sustains a world class city. Couple that with the internet issues and high education costs and it's a pretty bad combination that I can see really holding back the country in the future with the world moving towards knowledge economies more/working on the cloud AI etc.

 

[VDS66]

I reckon you've nailed it here.

I moved 10 years ago with my better half to Sweden as a new uni graduate pretty much penniless. Once I'd gotten a job we started looking at apartments in the capital city here and doing some research and I started to notice something: Stockholm seemed like Melbourne 10 years previous. There were still areas close to the city considered "not good places to live" for no real reason: just that people are sheep (and what it used to be like in Melbourne... my sister in the early nineties buying a small place in Clifton Hill when no one wanted to live there... we all know that has changed and her bank balance thanks her). So I bought a cheap apartment in an undesirable area not far from the city that of course became desirable within a couple of years, sold it and bought a dream place on the outskirts of the city in the forest before people started to want to do that too and the prices are sky-rocketing too here....

The point of the above is to try and predict where people want to live before they know it and move there. It's not actually that hard but it is really surprising to me how many first home buyers aren't willing to look in less desirable areas.

The other part you touched on which is all too true is the problem with Melbourne and public transport. Sweden and Australia aren't too dissimilar in that they are big countries with sparse populations but the infrastructure here with regards public transport is simply amazing. It means I can get to my desk from the middle of the country in an hour with a short drive to a rural station, all-year round, rain, snow whatever. I miss a train? No worries, another along in 10 minutes. I could even get a bus if I didn't drive. And we're talking a small town here. But the options to not have to live in the middle of the city are there because of the great train and bus system and, this is the key, amazing internet meaning you can work from home as much as you want and start businesses from home.

Unfortunately, I see a big part of Melbourne's housing issue are due to the public transport woes and governments simply refusing to invest what is needed to have a system that sustains a world class city. Couple that with the internet issues and high education costs and it's a pretty bad combination that I can see really holding back the country in the future with the world moving towards knowledge economies more/working on the cloud AI etc.

If they didn't stuff up the NBN as they have, mire people could work from home or local work zones.

Thus less need for commuting and all the costs and problems associated with it.

When I published my book I worked from home and was connected globally through Skype and Conference calls.

I was lucky to clock up 5000 km per year on my car. That was like a $7k pay increase right there.

The current work model is broken.

 

[StCicatriz]

I was in my 30's when i got my first house ( forced to sell , got back the money i paid, but lost my deposit in fee's ).
Late 30's when i got my second ( which helped me get my third ). When i was 25 i'd not long had a job after finishing Uni, and had to move away from home to do it ( renting ). Inflation was so high second hand cars cost more than when they were new.

The first one was a heart breaker. I'd moved to Perth for a specific job and my wife and i decided to buy there.
After buying a house things were so much tighter financially than they were when renting.
It was just such a waste. We could have stayed renting and travelled around a lot more and eaten out in Restaurants twice a week and still had a decent deposit when it all went wrong.

Regional Area's can be a good idea. Buy it to rent out , not to live in. It makes more financial sense anyway, and gets you in the market.
Buy a unit or something. Choose an area carefully. ( ie if the local timber mill and only employer in town is about to close....that's a no ).

If you live in an apartment in the city and go to bali twice a year and eat out several times a week on a standard sort of wage , you won't be saving your deposit real soon.

If you're 25 and still live with your parents you should be able to chuck away a deposit in a few years and service a $500 000 loan.

Its also possible to form a business partnership to buy an investment property, though you want to have the contract drawn up carefully.

If you want to buy property don't buy "cool new cars". They can be a massive money pit.

You live in a completely different world

 

[StCicatriz]

Good Advice.
My Daughter is hoping to get into Nursing , and i think i'll feel pretty happy with that.
My Son wants to do the computer programming thing, and i say to him, I can email a guy in India with my requirements, and he'll email me back the program, and i can pay him in Rupee's. My wife seems to think i'm being negative and trying to burst his bubble but i just want him to be careful with his choices.

Personally i have a trail of dead companies behind me. ( i like to think it wasn't my presence that killed them ).

Health is where they money and security is at. Good decision

Computer programming might be a needed skill moving forward for everyday tasks. Automation is increasing at a rapid rate. There's things you can do now that people never thought were possible 20 years ago

I'd say if you're in a job involving repetitive tasks you're in trouble. That's where companies will make their money

 

[sunny3193]

If they didn't stuff up the NBN as they have, mire people could work from home or local work zones.

Thus less need for commuting and all the costs and problems associated with it.

When I published my book I worked from home and was connected globally through Skype and Conference calls.

I was lucky to clock up 5000 km per year on my car. That was like a $7k pay increase right there.

The current work model is broken.

Was the book illustrated?

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I reckon you've nailed it here.

I moved 10 years ago with my better half to Sweden as a new uni graduate pretty much penniless. Once I'd gotten a job we started looking at apartments in the capital city here and doing some research and I started to notice something: Stockholm seemed like Melbourne 10 years previous. There were still areas close to the city considered "not good places to live" for no real reason: just that people are sheep (and what it used to be like in Melbourne... my sister in the early nineties buying a small place in Clifton Hill when no one wanted to live there... we all know that has changed and her bank balance thanks her). So I bought a cheap apartment in an undesirable area not far from the city that of course became desirable within a couple of years, sold it and bought a dream place on the outskirts of the city in the forest before people started to want to do that too and the prices are sky-rocketing too here....

The point of the above is to try and predict where people want to live before they know it and move there. It's not actually that hard but it is really surprising to me how many first home buyers aren't willing to look in less desirable areas.

The other part you touched on which is all too true is the problem with Melbourne and public transport. Sweden and Australia aren't too dissimilar in that they are big countries with sparse populations but the infrastructure here with regards public transport is simply amazing. It means I can get to my desk from the middle of the country in an hour with a short drive to a rural station, all-year round, rain, snow whatever. I miss a train? No worries, another along in 10 minutes. I could even get a bus if I didn't drive. And we're talking a small town here. But the options to not have to live in the middle of the city are there because of the great train and bus system and, this is the key, amazing internet meaning you can work from home as much as you want and start businesses from home.

Unfortunately, I see a big part of Melbourne's housing issue are due to the public transport woes and governments simply refusing to invest what is needed to have a system that sustains a world class city. Couple that with the internet issues and high education costs and it's a pretty bad combination that I can see really holding back the country in the future with the world moving towards knowledge economies more/working on the cloud AI etc.

Yeah, the NBN fiasco is a real worry for me, I just fear Australia are going to get left behind more and more.

The big problem is not learning from countries like Sweden and instead following the US blindly. Before I moved here I was probably the same, thought these Scandinavian places were basically socialist. But they’re not, they just invest their public money more smartly and with a long-term view (personal tax is high but education and health free and corporate tax is low).

What this means is that they know that with free education, it means that in 20 years time you will have a highly educated population that starts more businesses, so it makes money in the long run. It’s why companies like Spotify started here in Stockholm, King games (behind Candy Crush) there are loads more…. the city is called the games silicon valley.

And why it is the second biggest music producer in the world. I work in music on the side and have become good friends with a studio manager of a world class studio and write and record music with this person. She’s very down to earth and just turned 30 but records all the big pop and rock acts there. They fly in from the states especially for it. Why? Because they know they’ll get the best and that people know what the hell they are doing. Their reputation, which is hard won, precedes them now and it’s good for business.

A knowledge economy takes a lot of long-term planning and, at least initially, public investment but with the world being on the edge of an AI revolution it’s a must that a country educates its people to be able to take advantage of it. I fear Australia has missed the boat and should have invested money from the mining boom into our internet, public transport and education. Unfortunately, our politicians just don’t seem to have the foresight to look beyond the next election cycle which is a tragedy because Australia really does have so much potential.