Discussion Random Discussion

[SaintsSeptember]

I know very little of the history between the indigenous Australians and the white settlers, though I'm aware it is very disturbing, akin to the treatment of the native Americans. As History is my thing, how is it taught in schools today?

How many indigenous Australians were killed by the early settlers?

Unfortunately it depends who you ask , with plenty of lies getting flow around at either extreme.
( which is also not to say that the line in the middle is correct either ).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

People don't like saying it , but there are plenty of aspects of tribal customs , which extend from thousands of years ago, which are by definition barbaric and unpleasant.
Its simplistic to suggest that everything is OK because its traditional.

 

[gringo2011]

People don't like saying it , but there are plenty of aspects of tribal customs , which extend from thousands of years ago, which are by definition barbaric and unpleasant.
Its simplistic to suggest that everything is OK because its traditional.

It depends on who's perspective you are looking at it from. They might think plenty of things we do are barbarism. I remember talking to a Chinese guy I used to know about eating dogs. He was quite happy to point out the hypocrisy of Australians who would eat a lamb or a cow but recoiled at the thought of eating dog. A muslim would find eating pork disgusting, there are people who think harming plants is barbaric. We tend to see the world from our own cultural perspective and values, the irony is they are mostly based around a christian European system that we are not geographically connected to any more and plenty aren't even religious.

I have no problem with tribal people anywhere living a traditional lifestyle with all it's customs good or bad. They have adapted to their surroundings and been obviously pretty successful to get it to survive this long. Live and let live. They aren't asking anyone to join them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It depends on who's perspective you are looking at it from. They might think plenty of things we do are barbarism. I remember talking to a Chinese guy I used to know about eating dogs. He was quite happy to point out the hypocrisy of Australians who would eat a lamb or a cow but recoiled at the thought of eating dog. A muslim would find eating pork disgusting, there are people who think harming plants is barbaric. We tend to see the world from our own cultural perspective and values, the irony is they are mostly based around a christian European system that we are not geographically connected to any more and plenty aren't even religious.

I have no problem with tribal people anywhere living a traditional lifestyle with all it's customs good or bad. They have adapted to their surroundings and been obviously pretty successful to get it to survive this long. Live and let live. They aren't asking anyone to join them.

Fine bring back Headhunting. Its great cos they've been doing it a long time.

Maybe all that stuff Harvey Weinstein was doing is fine, cos... traditional.

 

[Yawkey way]

I know very little of the history between the indigenous Australians and the white settlers, though I'm aware it is very disturbing, akin to the treatment of the native Americans. As History is my thing, how is it taught in schools today?

How many indigenous Australians were killed by the early settlers?

That’s different imo

It depends on who's perspective you are looking at it from. They might think plenty of things we do are barbarism. I remember talking to a Chinese guy I used to know about eating dogs. He was quite happy to point out the hypocrisy of Australians who would eat a lamb or a cow but recoiled at the thought of eating dog. A muslim would find eating pork disgusting, there are people who think harming plants is barbaric. We tend to see the world from our own cultural perspective and values, the irony is they are mostly based around a christian European system that we are not geographically connected to any more and plenty aren't even religious.

I have no problem with tribal people anywhere living a traditional lifestyle with all it's customs good or bad. They have adapted to their surroundings and been obviously pretty successful to get it to survive this long. Live and let live. They aren't asking anyone to join them.

I’m generally a live and let live person and I find other peoples cultures fascinating up to a point.

The line in the sand is when it’s in this country and is illegal, there can be only 1 law as far as I’m concerned. Genital mutilation of young girls, throwing gay people off buildings, arresting rape victims etc are just a few we can do little about in other countries except through diplomacy but I’m not cool with that shit here at all.

I also make no apologies for the judeo Christian values that our largely European society lives by, we’re doing pretty well on the whole. It’s a bit bizarre really but everything I know about aboriginal culture I have read I’ve never met anyone that’s aboriginal in anything other than a formal setting, attending a function etc.

I have 2 Native American cousins as well and I don’t know jack about their culture except out of books either. I don’t know maybe things are different now but we weren’t that interested in what the kids we went to school with did at home. I had mates from all over the place although mainly European but several from the Middle East, India, Sri lanka and Asia you went to their houses and the food was a bit exotic and that was about it really.

I dated a Muslim girl and supervised a really nice Muslim guy at work. I organised a discrete place for him to pray and wash he gave me a copy of the Koran and the perfumed garden both of which I read. He was a kind and generous guy who spoke a bit about Ramadan and his family back in Egypt. He lived just off glen eira road and didn’t seem any more exotic than my many Jewish friends to be honest.

SaintsSeptember has to be talking about the illegal stuff not strange food or different religious practices surely.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That’s different imo

I’m generally a live and let live person and I find other peoples cultures fascinating up to a point.

The line in the sand is when it’s in this country and is illegal, there can be only 1 law as far as I’m concerned. Genital mutilation of young girls, throwing gay people off buildings, arresting rape victims etc are just a few we can do little about in other countries except through diplomacy but I’m not cool with that shit here at all.

I also make no apologies for the judeo Christian values that our largely European society lives by, we’re doing pretty well on the whole. It’s a bit bizarre really but everything I know about aboriginal culture I have read I’ve never met anyone that’s aboriginal in anything other than a formal setting, attending a function etc.

I have 2 Native American cousins as well and I don’t know jack about their culture except out of books either. I don’t know maybe things are different now but we weren’t that interested in what the kids we went to school with did at home. I had mates from all over the place although mainly European but several from the Middle East, India, Sri lanka and Asia you went to their houses and the food was a bit exotic and that was about it really.

I dated a Muslim girl and supervised a really nice Muslim guy at work. I organised a discrete place for him to pray and wash he gave me a copy of the Koran and the perfumed garden both of which I read. He was a kind and generous guy who spoke a bit about Ramadan and his family back in Egypt. He lived just off glen eira road and didn’t seem any more exotic than my many Jewish friends to be honest.

SaintsSeptember has to be talking about the illegal stuff not strange food or different religious practices surely.

Strange food is awesome

Tribal punishment not so.

 

[gringo2011]

That’s different imo

I’m generally a live and let live person and I find other peoples cultures fascinating up to a point.

The line in the sand is when it’s in this country and is illegal, there can be only 1 law as far as I’m concerned. Genital mutilation of young girls, throwing gay people off buildings, arresting rape victims etc are just a few we can do little about in other countries except through diplomacy but I’m not cool with that shit here at all.

I also make no apologies for the judeo Christian values that our largely European society lives by, we’re doing pretty well on the whole. It’s a bit bizarre really but everything I know about aboriginal culture I have read I’ve never met anyone that’s aboriginal in anything other than a formal setting, attending a function etc.

I have 2 Native American cousins as well and I don’t know jack about their culture except out of books either. I don’t know maybe things are different now but we weren’t that interested in what the kids we went to school with did at home. I had mates from all over the place although mainly European but several from the Middle East, India, Sri lanka and Asia you went to their houses and the food was a bit exotic and that was about it really.

I dated a Muslim girl and supervised a really nice Muslim guy at work. I organised a discrete place for him to pray and wash he gave me a copy of the Koran and the perfumed garden both of which I read. He was a kind and generous guy who spoke a bit about Ramadan and his family back in Egypt. He lived just off glen eira road and didn’t seem any more exotic than my many Jewish friends to be honest.

SaintsSeptember has to be talking about the illegal stuff not strange food or different religious practices surely.

Is that a traditional culture though? It's not exactly 60,000 of continual Indigenous way of life or hunter gatherer communities in the amazon hunting cute monkeys. That's an ideological interpretation of religious doctrine. I would have an issue with an indigenous guy spearing the legs of someone while living on the dole and living in Fitzroy but not if they are in their own land living their traditional way of life. You have to adhere to any culture you live in. I wouldn't expect to go to down town Rihad and done a 6 pack of vic any more than I think someone from Pakistan should come here and expect to marry underage girls. It's hard for the west to expect other countries to conform to our standards but as a rule of thumb religion and politics shouldn't be anywhere near each other or that's the kind of lunacy you end up with. what's crazy about the US is the lengths the founding fathers went to to have a separation of church and state. Something they have always struggled to separate.

Most people are good no matter where they are from. Most of the real arseholes seem to covet power and use cultural difference as a way to keep people divided.

 

[gringo2011]

Fine bring back Headhunting. Its great cos they've been doing it a long time.

Maybe all that stuff Harvey Weinstein was doing is fine, cos... traditional.

Who's saying that head hunting should be bought back. Some people in hunter gatherer societies killed each other because the resources were scarce and they had all kinds of ways to do it but the west had wars that do the same thing. It's not great, it just was part of their culture. The Christians that "saved" them had their own problems with morality getting in the way of their activities. The US has done some horrific things in the name of capitalism that make the small amount of head hunter deaths look pretty tame. Anyway we see everything from the perspective of the way we were indoctrinated in to our society. Why is it bad to kill a whale to eat but it's okay to eat a chicken? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

What's traditional about Weinstein? He was basically a corrupt person using his position of power to abuse people of lesser power. That is traditional in every modern culture but we pretend it doesn't happen. Moral philosophy is an interesting subject.

 

[Yawkey way]

Is that a traditional culture though? It's not exactly 60,000 of continual Indigenous way of life or hunter gatherer communities in the amazon hunting cute monkeys. That's an ideological interpretation of religious doctrine. I would have an issue with an indigenous guy spearing the legs of someone while living on the dole and living in Fitzroy but not if they are in their own land living their traditional way of life. You have to adhere to any culture you live in. I wouldn't expect to go to down town Rihad and done a 6 pack of vic any more than I think someone from Pakistan should come here and expect to marry underage girls. It's hard for the west to expect other countries to conform to our standards but as a rule of thumb religion and politics shouldn't be anywhere near each other or that's the kind of lunacy you end up with. what's crazy about the US is the lengths the founding fathers went to to have a separation of church and state. Something they have always struggled to separate.

Most people are good no matter where they are from. Most of the real arseholes seem to covet power and use cultural difference as a way to keep people divided.

Interesting question about tribal Punishment I hadn’t really thought about that to be honest, yeah we provide police the law is that law.

I guess it sounds tough but where do you draw the line a spear today a murder tomorrow an underage girl promised by tribal law the next. I don’t think the setting changes things and it’s all our land collectively or we aren’t 1 country, it’s the belief and freedom to practice them that’s in question. I have no problem with the concept of people obeying the law and cultural expectations of the country their visiting or moving too, don’t like it don’t go. I don’t however agree with some of their laws and nether will but I’m sure that applies to most people, there is sure to be something that gets under your skin. I have no great expectation that other non western countries will change to please us I just have no desire to see some of those practices here.

I agree with your take most people you meet are pretty much of one mind they just want a decent life. I don’t have a problem with religion but my version is a fairly private thing for the most part. Sure the church generally takes a position on social issues they find troubling but it’s hardly earth shattering stuff.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Who's saying that head hunting should be bought back. Some people in hunter gatherer societies killed each other because the resources were scarce and they had all kinds of ways to do it but the west had wars that do the same thing. It's not great, it just was part of their culture. The Christians that "saved" them had their own problems with morality getting in the way of their activities. The US has done some horrific things in the name of capitalism that make the small amount of head hunter deaths look pretty tame. Anyway we see everything from the perspective of the way we were indoctrinated in to our society. Why is it bad to kill a whale to eat but it's okay to eat a chicken? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

What's traditional about Weinstein? He was basically a corrupt person using his position of power to abuse people of lesser power. That is traditional in every modern culture but we pretend it doesn't happen. Moral philosophy is an interesting subject.

Its human tradition that those in power exploit women beneath their power.
I think its wrong though.

Just like i think tribesmen putting a spear through someone's leg is wrong. The culture doesn't make it correct.
There are people who suffer in a tribal situation and the "culture" might be fine to you but is it fine to them?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...d/news-story/d582c8e87e0b579dc333d23c185f5d55

"Anything to do with the abuse of Aboriginal women and children by their fellow Aborigines has been censored out by editors keen not to offend and raise ghosts of the stolen children stories. Ignoring the other stories of the rape of Aboriginal girls by Aboriginal men; the killing of Aboriginal babies often by leaving them to die in the bush; and the neglect and abuse of Aboriginal and part-Aboriginal children have all been part of a taboo which is based on guilt."

"Aboriginal culture tends to be defined by the male culture ... the thing about customary law is that it always works in favour of men, never women," he said.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If its wrong to inflict physical pain as a punishment...ie spanking children, strapping kids at school, whipping convicts. Then its wrong.
The same goes for psychological pain.
It can't be wrong for some people and ok for others.

In general our society has recognised the wrongness and sought to eliminate it over time.
Is it really the case that its OK for some to suffer this wrongness because that's how it was for their ancestors?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

on the thing of culture growing up i had a friend at school who was of the same Anglo indian culture as I am .. his mother cooked the same food as we had, they were every bit Indian they even had a very known indian last name ... when we got into high school it was discovered that he was actually or Aboriginal decent and going back 3 generations it was found that in order to hide from the christian missions that were rounding up kids his great grand mother assumed a fake name and identity and became "indian" she took that to her grave telling her kids she was born in Bombay so they all believed they were indian ... apparently it was fairly common in the western part of the country as the Indian comunity came here and were generally left alone ... unfortunatly i dont have any contact with them anymore but it certainly is interesting to go your whole life thinking you were something and then find out you are something else

 

[gringo2011]

Interesting question about tribal Punishment I hadn’t really thought about that to be honest, yeah we provide police the law is that law.

I guess it sounds tough but where do you draw the line a spear today a murder tomorrow an underage girl promised by tribal law the next. I don’t think the setting changes things and it’s all our land collectively or we aren’t 1 country, it’s the belief and freedom to practice them that’s in question. I have no problem with the concept of people obeying the law and cultural expectations of the country their visiting or moving too, don’t like it don’t go. I don’t however agree with some of their laws and nether will but I’m sure that applies to most people, there is sure to be something that gets under your skin. I have no great expectation that other non western countries will change to please us I just have no desire to see some of those practices here.

I agree with your take most people you meet are pretty much of one mind they just want a decent life. I don’t have a problem with religion but my version is a fairly private thing for the most part. Sure the church generally takes a position on social issues they find troubling but it’s hardly earth shattering stuff.

I guess it depends on if it's a self managed area like Kakadu or some other area given over to traditional owners. I agree if the person chooses to live a western lifestyle you can't have a foot in each paddock. They have 60,000 of traditional culture that seems fair in their own land should be possible. A bit different to rock up from overseas living a full urban lifestyle and expect exceptions from the laws of the new country though. No different than if I choose to live in Saudi Arabia I wouldn't demand pork and beer.

 

[gringo2011]

Its human tradition that those in power exploit women beneath their power.
I think its wrong though.

Just like i think tribesmen putting a spear through someone's leg is wrong. The culture doesn't make it correct.
There are people who suffer in a tribal situation and the "culture" might be fine to you but is it fine to them?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...d/news-story/d582c8e87e0b579dc333d23c185f5d55

"Anything to do with the abuse of Aboriginal women and children by their fellow Aborigines has been censored out by editors keen not to offend and raise ghosts of the stolen children stories. Ignoring the other stories of the rape of Aboriginal girls by Aboriginal men; the killing of Aboriginal babies often by leaving them to die in the bush; and the neglect and abuse of Aboriginal and part-Aboriginal children have all been part of a taboo which is based on guilt."

"Aboriginal culture tends to be defined by the male culture ... the thing about customary law is that it always works in favour of men, never women," he said.

The sprearing thing seems brutal but we back the US and Saudi Arabia killing their people. There is a real issue around incarceration and deaths in custody, Perhaps it's an effective way for them to deal with it in a way that makes sense to them. I think there is an unwritten law that says we won't mention the atrocities you cary out if you don't point out ours. I think a lot of it is actually a hang over from past trauma that they were put through still though.

Reporting is always altered to change view points. There was an interesting story about how Israel made the BBC re headline a story saying Israeli Airstrikes Kill... to Gaza Airstrikes Kill. Depending on which side of politics the networks or newspapers support they manage the way it's represented.

 

[Yawkey way]

Its human tradition that those in power exploit women beneath their power.
I think its wrong though.

Just like i think tribesmen putting a spear through someone's leg is wrong. The culture doesn't make it correct.
There are people who suffer in a tribal situation and the "culture" might be fine to you but is it fine to them?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...d/news-story/d582c8e87e0b579dc333d23c185f5d55

"Anything to do with the abuse of Aboriginal women and children by their fellow Aborigines has been censored out by editors keen not to offend and raise ghosts of the stolen children stories. Ignoring the other stories of the rape of Aboriginal girls by Aboriginal men; the killing of Aboriginal babies often by leaving them to die in the bush; and the neglect and abuse of Aboriginal and part-Aboriginal children have all been part of a taboo which is based on guilt."

"Aboriginal culture tends to be defined by the male culture ... the thing about customary law is that it always works in favour of men, never women," he said.

I actually remember Windschuttle getting some flack, he really put some noses out of joint imo he was absolutely right and ironically history will eventually record that.

A couple of weeks ago I was reading the thesis topics together with a short description of the aims etc that had been submitted together with a paper for a symposium at one of the schools at a university, they were given to me by a participant. Windschuttle would have laughed and nodded and Simon Birmingham had he still been in charge of the portfolio might have been reassessing the whole research training fund. In fairness there were some excellent papers and a very deserving winner imo.

It’s funny now the truth seems a rare commodity and people find some discussions so upsetting that their sole purpose in life seems to be to stop others from expressing even a dissenting view. Go and ask your kids how it works out for them if the put forward unpopular arguments no matter how well researched and presented as opposed to regurgitating what they know their teachers want to hear.

When you add in the way people now receive the news and the Vox pop nature of so much of it why should we ever be surprised by our politicians. Lindsay tanner dumbing down democracy is worth reading.

 

[Yawkey way]

The sprearing thing seems brutal but we back the US and Saudi Arabia killing their people. There is a real issue around incarceration and deaths in custody, Perhaps it's an effective way for them to deal with it in a way that makes sense to them. I think there is an unwritten law that says we won't mention the atrocities you cary out if you don't point out ours. I think a lot of it is actually a hang over from past trauma that they were put through still though.

Reporting is always altered to change view points. There was an interesting story about how Israel made the BBC re headline a story saying Israeli Airstrikes Kill... to Gaza Airstrikes Kill. Depending on which side of politics the networks or newspapers support they manage the way it's represented.

The media’s full of bias one way or the other and that’s a great example, they really like clicks now too so sensational is good.

We don’t support the death penalty and I doubt you can be extradited to the US if you face the death penalty although I could be wrong. The point is we are quite clear in our objections but have no more sway over them than any other independent country. I can’t really see much point in it and once again it’s a state issue and has been abolished in about twenty or so.

 

[CursingFijian]

In the context of crustys comments what’s the difference?.

Sorry, I was a bit abrupt because I don't really want to open that box.

But, in my head, Crusty has framed his argument in a way that distorts reasoning around the treatment of Australia's indigenous population. He has suggested that cultural ignorance is the same always, and in my head it isn't. I would equate Australia's ignorance of Australian aboriginal culture to Americans and Native Indians, Canadians and First Nations, Dutch and South African tribes, etcetera, ad nauseum.

There is a strong possibility that the existing cultural disconnect might be a result of a systemic, immoral, malfeasance. And I just couldn't allow that logic to fly through to the keeper unchecked. Ignoring (hence ignorance) Australian aboriginal culture is not okay for Australians. The same way that immigrants shouldn't ignore modern Australian social norms.

 

[Yawkey way]

Sorry, I was a bit abrupt because I don't really want to open that box.

But, in my head, Crusty has framed his argument in away that distorts reasoning around the treatment of Australia's indigenous population. He has suggested that cultural ignorance is the same always, and in my head it isn't. I would equate Australia's ignorance of Australian aboriginal culture to Americans and Native Indians, Canadians and First Nations, Dutch and South African tribes, etcetera, ad nauseum.

There is a strong possibility that the existing cultural disconnect might be a result of a systemic, immoral, malfeasance. And I just couldn't allow that logic to fly through to the keeper unchecked. Ignoring (hence ignorance) Australian aboriginal culture is not okay for Australians. The same way that immigrants shouldn't ignore modern Australian social norms.

I think you’d have to be living under a rock not to have some understanding of aboriginal history and culture.

It’s a part of the carriculum in schools now and my kids have had visits and excursions at both primary and secondary school.

I still think that you will get people who it just washes over and it has less meaning here in a big city. I watched Adam Goodes and I think it was Michael long both go out to country, it was an emotional experience for them. Most of us will never see a remote community or experience anything like that and we will keep on making assumptions and getting it wrong because it’s human nature.

 

[CursingFijian]

I think you’d have to be living under a rock not to have some understanding of aboriginal history and culture.

It’s a part of the carriculum in schools now and my kids have had visits and excursions at both primary and secondary school.

I still think that you will get people who it just washes over and it has less meaning here in a big city. I watched Adam Goodes and I think it was Michael long both go out to country, it was an emotional experience for them. Most of us will never see a remote community or experience anything like that and we will keep on making assumptions and getting it wrong because it’s human nature.

I hope that it’s being taught in a meaningful way that allows young Australians to fall in love with aboriginal culture and aboriginality.

 

[Crusty Undies]

EFA

Yeah good thing you treat aboriginals like sensitive snowflakes that can't think for themselves or take a joke, I'm sure that's making a world of difference to humanise them when you aren't willing to treat them like a regular person. Also, *ETPF

 

[Yawkey way]

I hope that it’s being taught in a meaningful way that allows young Australians to fall in love with aboriginal culture and aboriginality.

Honestly the kids at primary level seemed to enjoy it more, storytelling and more of a presence.

At secondary school there’s a funnel effect as they progress into elective subjects and competing curriculum needs make it difficult. It’s more the ritual acknowledgement at assembly and an occasional visit. I have a friend who teaches horticulture which is rare, they have a lot to do with an aboriginal ranger and they luckily have mangroves in that part of the bay. I guess his high school kids that take the class probably love it.

I think once again it’s just a glimpse and some history, kids often aren’t interested even in their own history.

Now there is the crux of it aboriginal history is part of our history but not the personal family part for most of us. My kids have learnt about the anzacs and ww11 the two girls even spending a year at Anzac house at school. They enjoyed it and respect remeberance and Anzac Day but does anybody really think about it a lot apart from that.

 

[Crusty Undies]

People don't like saying it , but there are plenty of aspects of tribal customs , which extend from thousands of years ago, which are by definition barbaric and unpleasant.
Its simplistic to suggest that everything is OK because its traditional.

Nah what're you talking about it's all kumbaya, it's just a cultural difference that aboriginals killed 30-50% of their infant children because they couldn't feed them or that the remains of aboroginal women typically have collections of indentations on the left side of their skull where their right handed partners beat them woth rocks repeatedly.

 

[Crusty Undies]

It depends on who's perspective you are looking at it from. They might think plenty of things we do are barbarism. I remember talking to a Chinese guy I used to know about eating dogs. He was quite happy to point out the hypocrisy of Australians who would eat a lamb or a cow but recoiled at the thought of eating dog. A muslim would find eating pork disgusting, there are people who think harming plants is barbaric. We tend to see the world from our own cultural perspective and values, the irony is they are mostly based around a christian European system that we are not geographically connected to any more and plenty aren't even religious.

I have no problem with tribal people anywhere living a traditional lifestyle with all it's customs good or bad. They have adapted to their surroundings and been obviously pretty successful to get it to survive this long. Live and let live. They aren't asking anyone to join them.

Moral relativism isn't really a valid way of observing things like infanticide, cannibalism, honour killings and so on. These aren't simply immoral in relation to Western culture, they're objectively immoral things that other cultures have failed to recognise and prevent from happening. With regards to the eating dogs thing that's a bit of grey area although I'd still say it's different to eating a cow given that cows have evolved as farm animals and dogs have evolved specifically to be human companions.

The whole "Live and let live" thing is all good and well until you cripple every future generation and don't give your children the chance to choose. If adult aboriginals want to live their traditional lifestyles then fine but their children should have the exact same access to education, medicine, housing and whatnot as everyone else and it's a horrible thing to not let them have the same opportunities and let them choose. In my eyes it's the same as indoctrinating children in religions.

 

[MUFKilda]

U.N. slams poverty levels in Britain. I hope you guys haven't reached this point yet; you're not as far down the neoliberal track as we are. We've had forty years of this trickledown bullshit.

 

[Yawkey way]

U.N. slams poverty levels in Britain. I hope you guys haven't reached this point yet; you're not as far down the neoliberal track as we are. We've had forty years of this trickledown bullshit.

Ah the UN thank god they’ve arrived who else would you have figured out that some people aren’t doing as well as others.

The UN seem to have entered a new stage where you head to western countries and tell them how poorly their doing, they want to remove you from your money and redistribute it to the poor. The joke here is it’s not your poor it’s poverty in the third world or some corrupt country all administered like the great climate fund they hoped to have by ngo’s if you don’t mind. I find it quite insulting which Nicky Haley did as the US spokesperson and finally called them out, bloated fat tick with it’s own agenda.

Climate fund, UNCLOS, patents etc just some of the more recent cash grabs.