Health Rapid Loss

[woopedazz]

Hey Gimp.

Losing weight by going on those ketogenic diets doesn't really work and were more of a brief fad in the 90s. You can sometimes lose a little weight like you did, but as you said there is a cost and it sounds like you were on the lighter side of things. I.e. you didn't die or suffer some other serious s**t that can happen to you.

 

[gimp!]

Hey Gimp.

Losing weight by going on those ketogenic diets doesn't really work and were more of a brief fad in the 90s. You can sometimes lose a little weight like you did, but as you said there is a cost and it sounds like you were on the lighter side of things. I.e. you didn't die or suffer some other serious s**t that can happen to you.

It certainly works woopy. The very principle of ketosis is that the body uses fat stores directly for energy. It was what got me into my goal physique at the time when I was lifting. Keto is pretty popular in the bodybuilding realm atm, a lot because of the supposed muscle sparing properties of the diet. And yes the potential side effects are hotly debated, these things might well be true.

I was more just wondering what Hue meant breaking down muscle is easier than breaking down fat when on ketosis, when it's the other way around. no biggie.

 

[woopedazz]

Ahhh yep, very popular for cutting!

 

[Hue_Jars]

It certainly works woopy. The very principle of ketosis is that the body uses fat stores directly for energy. It was what got me into my goal physique at the time when I was lifting. Keto is pretty popular in the bodybuilding realm atm, a lot because of the supposed muscle sparing properties of the diet. And yes the potential side effects are hotly debated, these things might well be true.

I was more just wondering what Hue meant breaking down muscle is easier than breaking down fat when on ketosis, when it's the other way around. no biggie.

Yep got my facts wrong here. You are right saying that ketosis is the break down of fat stores and usually happens when your reducing carbs next to nothing in a diet, not protein like I said.

Still reducing carbs can be potentially harmful...its the brains main fuel source. I used to work with gym junkies going through ketosis. They were emotional wrecks!

 

[cleveland]

Also got a couple of questions.............is it better to have a skinny latte/Cappa with equal or normal sugar. I don't think i could give up my morning coffee

 

[Hue_Jars]

Also got a couple of questions.............is it better to have a skinny latte/Cappa with equal or normal sugar. I don't think i could give up my morning coffee

Equal has zero kilojoules. Normal sugar is pure energy and high kilojoules. Except heaps of people think artificial sugar causes cancer. Nothing really substantive to support this yet, but people are noticing trends.

When your consume sugar and it is not used as energy I think it is converted to fat in a process called glycolysis. I think...

 

[rizzo]

FWIW my experience;

Started at 130kgs and went on Tony Fergusson. Program is fantastic for fast weightless. Lost 5kgs in 2 weeks. Was also great for putting me in a routine monitor what I am eating and making sure I didnt skip a meal (I was bad for missing breaky and having a massive lunch).

At my thinest I got down to about 108kg so lost 22kg(with no exercise) This was in about the space of six months. Went off the program and ballooned back to 120kg.

Decided to get serious and do it the right way after that.

I started with really light exercise. I'd walk 5km in the morning and 5km at night after dinner. Everyday with no excuses.

As I lost weight I tried to start running for parts and then walking when I am tired.

Now I get to the gym every day and do at least 40min cardio + weights. Also walk to and from work (just incase something comes up and I miss the gym). Since doing this I am down to 93kgs.

My meal plan is something like this:

Breaky: 2x slices of Burgen bread (generally pumpkin seed variety or weight management variety). Have either organic Peanut butter (much healthier than normal peanut butter) or vegiemite. Also have a cup of green tea (fantastic for weightloss)

Morning tea (10.30): 1x banana +bottle of water

Lunch 12.30: sandwich (using Burgen bread) with chicken or turkey + salad + half a slice of cheese

2pm: large skinny late with one equal

Afternoon snack(3.30) two handfuls of Almonds (a wonder nut) and an Apple.

Dinner: normally some protein + steamed veggies. Try to have carbs only sometimes with tea.

Saturday night is takeaway dinner for me. I use it as a treat for going to the gym and monitoring my diet.

If anyone has any questions I'm always happy to talk via pm

 

[Hue_Jars]

Awesome stuff mate.

 

[nicky]

These shake diets dont work. Short term you lose weight because your calories are being controlled. Most of this short term weight loss is fluid loss (water). Once you finish, weight gain will be very quick.

The worrying thing about these shake diets is that you miss out on important nutrients that are found in normal healthy foods. Losing out on these nutrients can suppress your metabolism and screw you up in other areas.

People also think that high protein low carb diets are the way to go - which is a load of crap. The body can only consume a certain amount of protein which you can get in a healthy diet. The rest is wasted, and is literally pissed out. Too much protein can actually be harmful to your kidneys. Risking not taking in enough carbs can effect your overall mood and energy. The number fuel for the brain is carbs. I saw my own brother go from a clightly chubby, healthy and good looking person to a fragile, weak, balding emotional mess, ending up in a psychiatric ward in the United States after having a psyhotic episode as a result of not eating enough carbs. The brain cant take it.

Forget protein shakes for weight loss. They are the biggest money making farce ever. The body cant consume that much protein. So many people are mesmerised by the advertising of this s***. You can get enough protein your body needs from eating chicken and tuna.

The only worthwhile diet is a balanced diet.

Light n easy could be something to get you started. Its all about eating healthy food and you get an idea of portion sizes and things you should be eating, to carry on with after you finish it.

Forget shakes.

Great post, I agree with it completely, especially the bold.

I have conversations with friends who insist on saying they don't want to eat any carbs because they want to lose weight, i tell them that is a myth and explain that the brain needs carbs to convert to glucose for it's energy. They agree and say something along the lines of, "yeah but I'm just going to eat a low calorie high protein diet to lose weight. They don't get it.

"Carbs the villain" has been hammered home with extreme success.

 

[nicky]

Breakfast - 3 Weet Bix with Greek yoghurt and a little bit of museli on top
Lunch - 2 wholegrain sandwiches, usually something boring like ham & mustard, and a piece of fruit
Dinner - Meat and 3 veg or a salad.

Meat is usually grilled and always something lean (currently eating a lot of kangaroo and fish). Veg are lots of greens - broccoli, asparagus, beans, peas, sometimes Brussels sprouts. I try and keep away from eating potatoes too often.

Not crazy healthy, but I focus on portion control. Only cook enough to keep me from getting hungry. Also exercise an hour a day before breakfast (or try to). When I am exercising properly, I drop weight reasonably quick.

Kangaroo and fish are fantastic in every way.

I find exercise is great for general well being, in that, it puts you in a relaxed mood.

However healthy food intake is where weightless occurs for me.

 

[King Elvis]

All of that stuff is a fad, I dont believe any of that stuff works and is a gimmick to suck in consumers,Just need to be disciplined with your diet mate and find time to exercise...I'm sure you could find 30mins a day to do some sort of exercise.

Not even.

Diet > Exercise when it comes to weight loss, by a mile.

Exercise is obviously a factor, and you should endeavour to do some, but if your diet isn't right, it's a waste of time.

OP, go on Optifast; you don't need this Rapid Loss crap to make you feel full, if you fix your diet, after a week or so, you wont feel constantly hungry and crave things (which will almost certainly be sugar/carb cravings).

As others have said though, you need to change your mindset, and your diet needs to change.

If you go on one of these VLC Diets for a while, lose your weight, then go back to how you were before, you'll just pile the weight back on.

 

[nicky]

Agree KE. A thing that makes a very big difference to me, as in curbs my alcohol intake as well as hunger cravings (for s**t food), and that consume foods that are low in GI.

Does anyone know anything about alkaline diets, are there sense to them? This guy was telling me about it but it sounded too restrictive which put me off - Couldn't even eat capsicums...

 

[rocker_oz33]

From where I stand I think diet along with lifting weights is one of the best ways to lose/control your weight.Compound lifts work really.

 

[Jimmy1992]

Just saw this, so am obviously very late with a reply but, here we go:

Really low calorie diets are not overly good for you. Yes, you will lose weight, and chances are you will lose it quite quickly. However, the problem is, low calorie diets force your metabolism to slow down, and you will feel more lethargic, especially if completing exercise.
Glucose/Glycogen (Carbs) is the most preferable fuel source used by the body. This is because it is the easiest to break down, requires the least amount of oxygen. Per molecule, most fats provide more energy. However, it also requires more oxygen than glucose/glycogen. Protein provides less energy than fats, but, IIRC needs more oxygen as well.

Back to the point, if on a low calorie diet, and your metabolism is slower, when you start eating 'normally' again, you will put on weight at a much faster rate. Your body has adapted to the lack of fuel source in your body and when more is provided will not utilise it, and fat, glycogen will all be stored.
My recommendations are; eating a balanced diet, and finding time to exercise. 30 minutes of moderate-intensity type exercise on 5 or more days of the week is usually enough to obtain health benefits. Also, eating protein at lunch & Dinner makes you feel 'fuller' and make you less likely to eat greater amounts of afternoon snacks (if that is a problem).

Just my two cents.

 

[_Mike_]

It's a meal replacement shake that makes you fuller for longer. I'm thinking about using it cause i need to shed some weight and i don't really have time for exercise with work.

My questions are:

Has anyone tried it?

How did it work for you?

Would you recommend it?

Thanks.

Rapid weight loss doesn't work for the long term. If you want to reduce your weight and manage it, you need to change your lifestyle and eating/drinking habits.

 

[King Elvis]

However, the problem is, low calorie diets force your metabolism to slow down, and you will feel more lethargic, especially if completing exercise.

Don't agree with this at all; I think it comes down to the individual.

Agree with Mike though; things like VLCD can be good to kick-start you, but if you don't address the other factors which have led to weight gain, you're wasting your time.

 

[fairdinkum]

Diet > Exercise when it comes to weight loss, by a mile.

Exercise is obviously a factor, and you should endeavour to do some, but if your diet isn't right, it's a waste of time.

From anecdotal experience, I couldn't disagree with this more.

My greatest weight-loss feat was when I dropped about 15kgs in about six weeks over the summer of 2003/2004. I was eating a mix of healthy and crap food, which included deep fried chips every single day. It was my first summer living alone and I was happy to eat whatever I could find that tasted good. However, I was running every single day (and by running, I mean running) and the weight melted off me.

I lost a fair amount of weight again over the summer of 2006/2007 basically doing the same thing: running.

However, I fully understand if other people have had different anecdotal experiences to my own.

The science still seems to be out on this one.

 

[gimp!]

Don't agree with this at all; I think it comes down to the individual.

Agree with Mike though; things like VLCD can be good to kick-start you, but if you don't address the other factors which have led to weight gain, you're wasting your time.

I agree. Some people can tolerate very low calorie diets very well. From my perspective it's all about trying to preserve lean body mass while trying such an extreme cut. Also I don't agree with what Jimmy was saying about metabolism slowing down. I think there is enough evidence out there to suggest that any slowdown in metabolism is minimal, and only after many months of dieting. It's more to do with your total calorie requirements going down when dropping weight, hence stalling once you reach a certain energy intake.

Anybody interested should read Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook. It talks about the protein sparing modified fast. It's too brutal for me. It explains the best way to ease yourself off crash diets to avoid over eating and gaining back body fat.

 

[cleveland]

Is a 30 minute brisk work enough to show a benefit?

 

[fairdinkum]

Is a 30 minute brisk work enough to show a benefit?

30 minute anything > 30 minute nothing.

I recall reading, some time ago now, that covering x distance power-walking burns around the same amount of energy as covering x distance jogging.

If power-walking is all you can manage to do at first then go for it, I say.

 

[_Mike_]

Is a 30 minute brisk work enough to show a benefit?

a balanced exercise program with healthy eating & drinking habbits is usually a good way to start.

You dont need to pound the pavement for hours on end, and a consistent 30-45 minutes per day is recommended

- turf out all of your soft drinks, cordials, boozes, big M's and what have nots.

These drinks are full of sugars and carbs and absolutely zero benefit to managing your weight. An occasional alcoholic drink is ok (1-2 per week), but if you're drinking that stuff on a daily basis you're undoing any good work

- Reduce your food intake. If your eyes are bigger than your stomach and your exercising but taking in large meals, again there is a problem and leads to putting it back on or not going anywhere.

- Stick to complex carbs and reduce your simple/refined carbs such as rice etc.

- drop sugar from your diet. continue to eat food such as fruit that has natural sugar levels, but cut out all added sugar to your diet

It is not easy by any means and is more psychological than anything else but if you can do it and get into the right habbits, you are on the right track

 

[cleveland]

I hardly drink soft drink...............dont drink alchol........quit smoking 8 years ago but love food but i know i have to cut down...its just hard

 

[Hue_Jars]

From anecdotal experience, I couldn't disagree with this more.

My greatest weight-loss feat was when I dropped about 15kgs in about six weeks over the summer of 2003/2004. I was eating a mix of healthy and crap food, which included deep fried chips every single day. It was my first summer living alone and I was happy to eat whatever I could find that tasted good. However, I was running every single day (and by running, I mean running) and the weight melted off me.

I lost a fair amount of weight again over the summer of 2006/2007 basically doing the same thing: running.

However, I fully understand if other people have had different anecdotal experiences to my own.

The science still seems to be out on this one.

Science is defiently not out - its been proven and the answer is simple: diet is the major factor into losing weight. Because increased energy expenditure from single bouts of exercise pale into comparison with overall reduced caloric intake for a day from eating.

Combining diet with exercise is the way to go. Exercise can also raise your resting metabolism which means youre burning more energy at rest.

 

[fairdinkum]

Science is defiently not out - its been proven and the answer is simple: diet is the major factor into losing weight. Because increased energy expenditure from single bouts of exercise pale into comparison with overall reduced caloric intake for a day from eating.

Combining diet with exercise is the way to go. Exercise can also raise your resting metabolism which means youre burning more energy at rest.

Link me up with the study abstracts, bro.

 

[dav3]

Link me up with the study abstracts, bro.

It's common sense..... energy out > energy in = weight loss. You can eat whatever you want as long as you burn it all off. What people are saying is you wouldn't have to run hard every day to achieve that weight loss if you ate better.

I dropped almost 10kg (out of the 30+kg I lost in total) in 10 weeks over the xmas party period one year by "simply" running 4 times a week and doing a few other assorted exercises, and this was while drinking heavily 2-3 times a week and eating crap. If I'd actually watched my diet I would have lost more. Hell... I remember a few years back some Aussie Olympic cyclist created a media stink over the fact he said he ate KFC constantly and still won medals.

If you're willing to do the work then diet becomes somewhat irrelevant, but for your average person trying to get fit and healthy it's incredibly important.