Rating Geelong's Player Development 2011 onwards

[fpm84]

This is an interesting thread and I too share concerns about our player development, moreso than our drafting which I think has been reasonably good given we always enter the draft late and in the past 12 months have traded for Dangerfield, Henderson, Smith and Tuohy.

Billie Smedts is an extremely talented footballer who showed enormous promise as a small forward/flanker in 2012/13. For some inexplicable reason our coaches decided he needed to be a small defender instead and he seemed out of his depth in this position in the seniors. At the same time he was killing it as a midfielder in the VFL, yet never player as a mid in the AFL. I genuinely believe he can still make it as an AFL player, unfortunately if he does it won't be with us.

Horlin-Smith is an inside midfielder and too good to be playing VFL. When he gets a senior game, he's generally put on the half-forward flank. Why?

Likewise, Cockatoo has spent some senior time across half-back. His creativity, spring and x-factor (not to mention occasional brain fades), combined with our less-than-potent forward line, means he should be a monty to play every game up forward until he becomes the damaging mid we expect him to be.

There are plenty of players in the AFL - Luke Dahlhaus springs to mind - who begin their careers as small forwards and eventually move into the midfield. That's natural progression. I feel we are often trying to put square pegs in round holes instead.

Then there's the likes of Duncan, Guthrie (and no-longer-ours Caddy). All capable of extremely good, AA-level football but none of them have done it consistently over a season, let alone multiple seasons. It's frustrating because when these guys click, we look a premiership-caliber team.

 

[SJ]

I guess the frustrating part for supporters is that it's an inconsistent rule anyway; it 100% depends on the player and their form. Hawkins only got moved into the ruck when his forward play was lacking. Selwood's never been asked to be anything but a first line inside midfielder. Harry Taylor has played predominantly as a CHB or third tall his whole career (his forward roles have been cameos at best). Murdoch, Smedts and GHS are fringe players that have to demand a spot in the team, and GHS is the only one of them that gets played consistently in his best role in the VFL. All I heard about Smedts for the last two years was about how good a midfielder he was in the VFL, but he probably should have been given a role in the forward line and an aim to earn a spot in the team by kicking bags of goals and not letting the ball out of our forward 50. Instead they pumped up his tires about playing in the midfield and then he came up a level and had to play on good AFL midfielders, which he has never been.

Sorry, I get a bit frustrated when I get started on Smedts. He should have been a lock in our forward half whenever he wasn't injured since 2012. I feel sad for the kid.

Actually that's not true, he got moved into the ruck because we drafted Podsiadly as insurance for 2010 (people said he wouldn't play a game all year).

Mooney got suspended very early in 2010, Podsiadly came in and starred. Then Mooney came back a week or two later and Thompson kept Hawkins in the team at the expense of a ruckman because he was still in form.

 

[kickazz]

This is on the money. I think we play a very mechanical, VERY SCRIPTED, game style. It benefits the key players but newbies find themselves having to stick to a script which may not suit their skillset best.

I was not a big fan of Kersten but he was was one example. We knew he couple kick long distances but time and again he refused to launch whether on the run or a set kick from 50. Why? Surely he should have played to his strength.

Murdoch has pace but we rarely see him take on opponents. Why? Being caught is as the same as being corralled and then giving off the ineffective hand pass.

Bews playing deep in defence plays conservatively (under instruction?) and then every so often drops a clanger under the pressure. He is an impact player. Good overhead, good evasives, good pace, fairly good kick on both feet. Let him play to his strengths.

Even in the VFL final we got spanked in the middle all day. Parsons was left out on the flank (where they think he is best suited?). He had put in some very good efforts when played on ball in lead up games and shown them (even if he had never told them) a preference for playing on ball. Let him use his strengths.

There are probably one or two more.

Beveridge (and McCartney?) like an unscripted game. Each and every player just has to get to the contest and do his best to win the pill and get it forward quickly. Unpredictable. Each player expected to USE his best weapons.

Maybe I am just out of sorts but I would like less scripting and more reactive "natural" footy next year.

So what you are saying is we have a crap game plan that lends itself poorly to instinctive play and taking initiative.
Something I've suspected for a few years now

 

[speedybundy]

Brendan McCartney's the simple answer to this thread IMO. Mark Thompson obviously a huge loss to, but the amount of ex players who rave about McCartneys skill as a player developer

 

[numbwombat]

I liked Smedts, but I think favourable comparisons of his (3rd) 2013 season to Lang's (3rd)/Cockatoo's (2nd) 2016 are pretty rose-tinted.

He averaged very slightly fewer disposals and goals, and very slightly more I50s than 2016 Cockatoo, with a midfield still featuring Chappy, SJ, Kelly, Stokes and Corey as well as Selwood, Duncan and 2013 All-Australian squad Motlop, in a team that missed the GF by a kick. And was IIRC mostly spoken of at the time, like Lang and Cockatoo now, as a midfielder developing in the forward line, rather than a promising gun forward.

Murdoch, Walker, GHS and Kersten are the only players who jump out to me as having been questionably coached. GHS probably needed to improve more when he played all of 2014, or not spent most of 2015 injured. Kersten should've been played earlier. Walker and Murdoch were mucked around positionally, although I'm skeptical either would be among the first 18 picked now if they'd had a better run as forwards.

Smedts IMO could've worked in the backline if he hadn't been made of plastic, and was possibly moved there for that reason.
We lost reasonable prospects, whose drafting and early development seemed fine, in Hamling, Hartman and Jansen walking, too.

Development doesn't look like the problem to me - Guthrie, Blicavs, McCarthy, Bews, Kolo, Lang, Gregson and Cockatoo all seem to be tracking okay.

But having all of Vardy, Smedts, Menzel, Cowan, McCarthy, McIntosh, Simpson, Brown, Clark spend a combined total of 41 years on the list has meant a lot of neglected draft picks (and having 8 of them each year from 2013-2015 goes a fair way to explaining how bad our depth was when "hit" by injuries last year).

 

[catswhiskers]

So what you are saying is we have a crap game plan that lends itself poorly to instinctive play and taking initiative.
Something I've suspected for a few years now

Thats a yes. And that also leads to things other than less than optimal development.

This year in particular sides made good starts against us. They know exactly what to expect and plan for. So if they get a few key players up and about and they derail the system early then we are there for the "picking". The scriptedness makes it harder for us to respond.

In some games we did come back from a poor start and won because of the pure class of our key players more than the system won out.

Playing the Bullies and to some degree Melbourne and St Kilda , it is hard to know what their "method is" . They are relying more and more on discipline in how players get to the contest but once there the players have much more freedom to use their strengths to just get it forward quickly if you win the contest. Not having a script as to how the ball must be moved aids instinctive (and as a result quick ) decision making. Slow movement of the ball when they have control does happen but it is not the obvious feel you get after watching them. Its what I see in the first quarter of a lot of Geelong games though (slow mechanical movement).

That leads into the "lack of leg speed" argument. Its great to have a JJ and maybe Dahlhaus who can burst take a bounce and deliver to a one on one froward line but a lot of the Bulldogs ball carriers are not quick IMO - they just think quick and do it. A tap here, a handball to advantage, nothing clean but it gets done and the ball gets forward quickly to that open forward line.

 

[Partridge]

Development doesn't look like the problem to me - Guthrie, Blicavs, McCarthy, Bews, Kolo, Lang, Gregson and Cockatoo all seem to be tracking okay.

Possibly. But it's worth noting very few of them had good finals. Lang and Cockatoo didn't play in either. Guthrie turned the game against Hawthorn, which was great as it was the first time he'd done that in a final as a midfielder. Injuries obviously curtailed Gregson's season. But for the rest, there are still plenty of question marks.

 

[hbk_aus]

Development doesn't look like the problem to me - Guthrie, Blicavs, McCarthy, Bews, Kolo, Lang, Gregson and Cockatoo all seem to be tracking okay.

.

Really? I will give you Guthrie (sporadically), Kolo & McCarthy as improved players this season. But the rest went nowhere. Bews possibly took a little step forward but that's about it.

 

[Seeds]

Every case is different, and each player's situation is different.

I don't blame the club at all for Hamling. Not because he hadn't played a senior game, but it wasn't like he was banging the door down in the VFL because he wasn't. Brown, Horlin-Smith, Smedts and even Kersten all did (and do) that far, far more. The moving players away from their natural positions is a major frustration of mine, and I think that has hindered particularly Murdoch, Smedts, and to a lesser extent Horlin-Smith. Murdoch to me is a natural forward, and if he is given games (and I'm not saying he should be gifted them, he's already done very well at selection) should be in a pocket or on a flank. Horlin-Smith is an inside midfielder. That's it. If they aren't going to play him, then trade him and be done with it. They're still obviously besotted with Blicavs, and I'm with you, if there's a spot in the team it's second ruck or nowhere.

We'll see what changes are made if any next year.

Hamling left after his first 2 years which had been plagued by injuries. Kersten and horlin smith by no means were banging the door down more than hamling at the age. hamling actually looked more impressive then kersten as a forward in the couple of oportunities he got kicking a couple of bags.

 

[Partridge]

Really? I will give you Guthrie (sporadically), Kolo & McCarthy as improved players this season. But the rest went nowhere. Bews possibly took a little step forward but that's about it.

I would say Guthrie overall, and definitely McCarthy (and I've been critical of him previously). I'm not sure at all Kolodjashnij improved to be honest, I thought was shaky all year, and very prone to fumbling under pressure. The rest sadly stagnated.

 

[hbk_aus]

I would say Guthrie overall, and definitely McCarthy (and I've been critical of him previously). I'm not sure at all Kolodjashnij improved to be honest, I thought was shaky all year, and very prone to fumbling under pressure. The rest sadly stagnated.

Yeah i am still to be won over by Kolo but he had some good moments, more than previously. But judgement day will be when he has to take the first or second key forward one day soon.

 

[numbwombat]

Really? I will give you Guthrie (sporadically), Kolo & McCarthy as improved players this season. But the rest went nowhere. Bews possibly took a little step forward but that's about it.

I think season-by-season improvement is more useful a yardstick than over a season, which makes it hard to judge Mccarthy given he'd only played 5-6 games a few years back. I'd say Bews, Lang and Cocky all improved on that measure, though Cocky was definitely more restrained and less exciting to watch.

Kolo and Gregson probably are hard calls to make, I thought Kolo was a little more defensively aware but maybe less sure with the ball. Blitz had a worse year but his improvement since 2011 is pretty hard to argue IMO.

 

[SJ]

Bews went from first-choice last year to fill-in this year so it's hard to say he improved.

 

[hbk_aus]

Bews went from first-choice last year to fill-in this year so it's hard to say he improved.

I thought he showed more in the AFL than he had previously, just that he had direct competition for his spot in Ruggles and for some reason they wouldnt play both of them.

 

[numbwombat]

Bews went from first-choice last year to fill-in this year so it's hard to say he improved.

He had a competitor for the spot who wasn't there last year, though. I'd say he used his pace more and got more of the footy, and seemed to get caught less often than last year. I don't have anything to back that up though and there's no real clear metric to judge a backman's game on so YMMV.

 

[David the Cat]

I think its fair to say Ruggles made a step up. Kolo is a work in progress and has some scope to improve further. His embarrassing effort leaving Franklin free while trotting to the bench should drive him to a higher level....at least it should.

Sometimes moments like that are a turning point for a player. Lets hope he turns the right way.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Bews went from first-choice last year to fill-in this year so it's hard to say he improved.

I though the afl games he did play this year were clearly a better standard than that he played last year so i would say its more a failure of the selection committee than the development coaches.