Ratten gone?

[stewie griffen]

My god they have got recruiting horribly wrong. Gibbs, Kreuzer, Walker & Yarran aren't worthy of the number they were picked up at. Could be a different story if they recruited differently.

Can't every club sell this story tho? Beau Dowler and Mitch Thorp at the Hawks, and yet they still won a flag.

And if you look at Ports drafting history from 04-07... youch

 

[Dory_77]

Dunno that drafting was their biggest issue. Yarran, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Walker, etc all have plenty of talent but haven't really developed the mental toughness needed to succeed. Look at Melbourne, plenty of talent there, but none of them have really come on from their U/18 days or developed any mental toughness or aggression at the contest. Not saying Carlton is as bad as the Dees (dunno that anything can compare with them) but the issues are similar; got a bunch of top draft picks and expected to march up the ladder to a flag but it never happened.
With a good and consistent KPF and a decent run with injuries next year Carlton should improve a lot, but to become a flag side they need to not drop gimme wins against GC or Port and become a lot more consistent in their application during games.

 

[jonoman89]

Any one of Petrie, Tarrant, Hansen, Grima, Thompson, Pederson, Luke Delaney, Cam Delaney, Aaron Edwards, Ben Warren, Ben McKinley or Aaron Black would get a game in the current Carlton side.

Are you serious?

Maybe considering we haven't had any tall defenders for half a season due to injury. No way the bold players would be best 22 if our list was in a healthier state.

Jamison, Henderson, Laidler, Watson and now McInnes have all been chronically injured. Easy to say our KPD stocks are crap when they've all been unable to get on the park. I'd rather Jamison over every player you've listed bar Petrie.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Can't every club sell this story tho? Beau Dowler and Mitch Thorp at the Hawks, and yet they still won a flag.

And if you look at Ports drafting history from 04-07... youch

Nonsense. Everyone here would have made far better decisions in the place of the recruiters and list managers at that given time.

I can only assume that based on the proliferation of hindsight heroism.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Poll: Should Brett Ratten coach Carlton next season?

Yes. The Blues have done well against the odds this year
45%
No. Carlton simply had to play finals footy this season
55%
Total votes: 5078.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-wont-make-rash-move-on-coach-kernahan-20120827-24v82.html#ixzz24iSVTsOM

 

[Silvagnis]

People have begun to focus on the drafting of the Western Bulldogs from 2006 to 2010.

Ratten has been stitched up to a great degree by the Carlton recruiters during the same time.

2010 draft

Pick 18 Matthew Watson

instead of

pick 19 - Isaac Smith
pick 23 - Cam Guthrie
pick 24 - Jamie Cripps
pick 25 - Patrick Karnezis
Pick 26 - Jack Darling
Pick 27 - Kieran Harper

other Carlton picks,some of whom have been injury affected - McCarthy, Mitchell, McInnes,duigan

2009 draft

Pick 12 - Kane Lucas

In fairness, probably not much worse than a lot behind him

other Carlton picks - Davies and Kerr

2008 draft

pick 6 - Chris Yarran

instead of

7. Rich
8. Vickery
9. Ziebell
10. Davis
11. Sidebottom
18. Shuey

other Carlton picks - Robinson, o'Keeffe and Tiller

2007 draft

pick 1 Kreuzer

instead of

2 Cotchin
( and a lot of the rest in fairness were so so)

other carlton picks -Browne and Armfield

2006 draft

number 1 - Gibbs

instead of
no 5 Boak
no 7 Selwood
no 8 Reid

Other carlton picks included Hampson, Grigg, Austin, Benjamin and Anderson

I'm not sure Ratten can coach but it would help if a side drafts some good players.

Criticising Yarran and our number one picks is a laugh. Yarran's a jet and matchwinner who isn't dumb enough to believe that thuggery is still a fair part of the game.

O'Keeffe has the hardness and skill we need, but just can't get on the park. Rhys has had a horror run since coming to Carlton as an AA junior in 2008.

Garbage post that you could apply to everyone's recruiting and trading if you really wanted to go do your homework. Unless you believe we're the only club who recruits players who weren't on every team's radar.

Everyone picks from the same pool, but some are naive enough to believe in the notion of recruiters who can turn shit into strawberry jam. Hine, Rendell and Wells have had plenty of misses since 2004. Yet you rarely hear about the players who didn't work out. It all comes to development and coaching once you get them into your club. Reckon Tambling could have turned out a different player if he had landed at a better run club. Ratten developed Russell into a defender and turned his form around before injuries halted his form and confidence since 2010.

My god they have got recruiting horribly wrong. Gibbs, Kreuzer, Walker & Yarran aren't worthy of the number they were picked up at. Could be a different story if they recruited differently.

You couldn't pay me to take Schoenmakers to play for Carlton as a KPD.

 

[King Elvis]

Shame, he's better than most of your other options.

I don't understand how Clubs can just flat out refuse to use any high draft picks on KPPs, and expect to have success.

Davis or Schoenmakers both would've been a better option for Carlton, than Yarran; and you let Daniel Talia slip as well - so you could grab yet another midfielder.

It's like Terry Wallace at Richmond all over again.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Wallsy is more interested in keeping Ratten's job than the actual facts.

He compares him to Malthouse, saying Mick didn't win a flag at Collingwood for 11 years, yet ignores that after just 4 years, Malthouse had Collingwood playing off in two Grand Finals with a pretty mediocre list.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Yarran's a jet and matchwinner

Got a new signature. Thank you.

 

[royals1922]

Criticising Yarran and our number one picks is a laugh. Yarran's a jet and matchwinner who isn't dumb enough to believe that thuggery is still a fair part of the game.

O'Keeffe has the hardness and skill we need, but just can't get on the park. Rhys has had a horror run since coming to Carlton as an AA junior in 2008.

Garbage post that you could apply to everyone's recruiting and trading if you really wanted to go do your homework. Unless you believe we're the only club who recruits players who weren't on every team's radar.

Everyone picks from the same pool, but some are naive enough to believe in the notion of recruiters who can turn shit into strawberry jam. Hine, Rendell and Wells have had plenty of misses since 2004. Yet you rarely hear about the players who didn't work out. It all comes to development and coaching once you get them into your club. Reckon Tambling could have turned out a different player if he had landed at a better run club. Ratten developed Russell into a defender and turned his form around before injuries halted his form and confidence since 2010.

You couldn't pay me to take Schoenmakers to play for Carlton as a KPD.

Look closely and you will see Carlton has done very well out of the rookie draft so if their rookie picks are firing and their ND picks aren't - it means player development is not that bad.

 

[bombermick]

Bruno is right. Calls like Kreuzer over Cotchin look horrible in hindsight, but they're just that, hindsight calls.

The one obvious howler is choosing Lucas over Talia. Carlton's midfield strength was already good and they were screaming out for tall defenders. It was an obvious blue at the time.

 

[MightyTiger]

Shame, he's better than most of your other options.

I don't understand how Clubs can just flat out refuse to use any high draft picks on KPPs, and expect to have success.

Davis or Schoenmakers both would've been a better option for Carlton, than Yarran; and you let Daniel Talia slip as well - so you could grab yet another midfielder.

It's like Terry Wallace at Richmond all over again.

Skinny quick outside flankers are the way of the future (in the mind of Wallace).

 

[Kim Hagdorn]

Yarran's a jet and matchwinner who isn't dumb enough to believe that thuggery is still a fair part of the game.

It's a pity that he has a heart the size of a pea.

 

[western royboy]

Bruno is right. Calls like Kreuzer over Cotchin look horrible in hindsight, but they're just that, hindsight calls./quote]

As I recall at the time it was the "Matthew Kreuzer Cup" they were playing for, it was universal that he was going No.1 - the only question was who would "win" the right to pick him. Similarly, Jack Watts & Josh Fraser before him.

It's a judgement call at a point in time, nothing more - nothing less.

 

[Hodgepodge]

You couldn't pay me to take Schoenmakers to play for Carlton as a KPD.

It depends what kind of KPF he is playing on. He struggles against the bigger bodied, experienced key forwards, but does very well on forwards his own size and experience. He showed this again on the weekend, shutting down Sam Reid and being one of the best defenders on the field. I think he had 22 disposals himself.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yarran's a jet and matchwinner who isn't dumb enough to believe that thuggery is still a fair part of the game.

Is Mitch Robinson dumb enough to believe that thuggery is still a fair part of the game?

 

[Morris Major]

I can't understand how the drafting of Gibbs and Kreuzer can be criticised. If people bother casting their minds back to 2006 and 2007, those two were touted as #1 picks since like June. I can confidently say any club with the first pick at the time would have drafted those two.

 

[royals1922]

Then can someone explain to me how Carlton with 7 top 7 picks playing can lose to Gold coast with 2 playing for them.

The Gold coast boys had played 951 games between them of whom only 4 had played over 39 games and 7 under 10 games and had an average age of 22 years while carlton had an average of 25 years and had played 2133 games and 14 of whom had played over 39 games and 3 had played under 10 games.

Just dumb luck I suppose.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I can't understand how the drafting of Gibbs and Kreuzer can be criticised. If people bother casting their minds back to 2006 and 2007, those two were touted as #1 picks since like June. I can confidently say any club with the first pick at the time would have drafted those two.

IIRC correctly, there was not much between Kreuzer and Cotchin.

Gibbs was widely considered the standout in his year.

Fully agree that you can't hammer them on those selections. Both were completely sound.

 

[royals1922]

IIRC correctly, there was not much between Kreuzer and Cotchin.

Gibbs was widely considered the standout in his year.

Fully agree that you can't hammer them on those selections. Both were completely sound.

Is so, what happened betwen then and now?

 

[Cazbah]

Then can someone explain to me how Carlton with 7 top 7 picks playing can lose to Gold coast with 2 playing for them.

The Gold coast boys had played 951 games between them of whom only 4 had played over 39 games and 7 under 10 games and had an average age of 22 years while carlton had an average of 25 years and had played 2133 games and 14 of whom had played over 39 games and 3 had played under 10 games.

Just dumb luck I suppose.

I can explain it, we had a bad game.

 

[bradrowe#32]

Pretty sad as he seems like a good bloke and he was a great player, but he just doesn't have "it" as a coach. They should have beaten Brisbane and Sydney in those finals a few years ago and the Eagles last year. That would've changed his career.

 

[western royboy]

Then can someone explain to me how Carlton with 7 top 7 picks playing can lose to Gold coast with 2 playing for them.

The Gold coast boys had played 951 games between them of whom only 4 had played over 39 games and 7 under 10 games and had an average age of 22 years while carlton had an average of 25 years and had played 2133 games and 14 of whom had played over 39 games and 3 had played under 10 games.

Just dumb luck I suppose.

At the end of the day it's 22 v 22, turn up with the wrong attitude and you will get beat.

 

[Morris Major]

Is so, what happened betwen then and now?

Maybe Gibbs is just not superstar material, maybe he has not been developed properly at Carlton. Who knows?

There's a lot wrong with some attitudes towards drafting...

 

[Ron The Bear]

Wallsy is more interested in keeping Ratten's job than the actual facts.

He compares him to Malthouse, saying Mick didn't win a flag at Collingwood for 11 years, yet ignores that after just 4 years, Malthouse had Collingwood playing off in two Grand Finals with a pretty mediocre list.

No doubt Malthouse has been the better coach. But will he be a better coach in his 60's than Ratten in 2-3 years?