Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[Blue_Fusion]

I'm frustrated off 30 years but it's the consistent issues of the past 2-3 years that has me really concerned

Yeah of course 30 years no flag to show is super frustrating.

But more relevant to the current list, the last 11 games has produced 2 wins and both were against bottom 4 sides.

The off season once again filled the fans with hope that we'd learnt a lot from the back half of last year but unfortunately, it's just been a continuation of it, if not worse.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Can remember an elite kick for us?

Who was the last one?

Houlihan?

 

[Bundy Bear Bogan]

Can remember an elite kick for us?

Who was the last one?

Diesel. By hand and by foot

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

To my eye that's one of the few things that looks promising. He's working very hard and has won key contests both weeks

With the seasoned vets around him looking all at sea I think he's doing comparitively well.

he's simply not that good - poor overhead too.

 

[Soapy V]

Mitchell has a bunch of very skilled by hand and foot players with the added bonus of pace.

To use your word the difference in game styles was stark. We don't have their skills and pace but the game style we have suits us, the only thing I really want to see is more class in the back half particularly in the attacking half back piece. As I've said elsewhere we need more from Saad and he needs a helper.

His one run that resulted in a goal and another mini run which had the Hawks on the hop was great but we need that more often as currently we're not initiating out of the backline with handball and run we're just dump kicking in hope.

I'll premise this because I haven't seen the last quarter but the boys held up for 3 quarters I just think we need to be better exiting the back half.

And tbh it's no good pining for players right now like the Hawks have we would have to swap out half the team in one go. This is obviously why we got Jagga and he should be the start of a shift in player type from the recruiting team.

Voss's game style suits our list as it sits but we do need more polish and pace to get us to the top. However I do think the team should take more confidence out of this game than the first.

Fair points and I don't disagree BUT I still believe we don't even try to improve certain things.

I don't care how good a player is if they can't look up and hit a target in space they shouldn't be playing. We simply don't look. It seems obvious to most (even opposition coaches) yet Voss doesn't address it

The other key point that was obvious last night is how much the Hawks get in and shephard, screen, create space for teammates and do the simple things well. That is coaching and structure NOT talent

 

[Blue since 72]

I don’t buy we don’t have the list or depth. We are stacked with talent compared to to other teams. Review the list if you prefer.

Our problem(s) are evident and haven’t changed. The difference in play was as evident last night as day and night.

1. We don’t run and carry from a stoppage. We kick to the next contest.
2. We kick long inside 50 to Harry or Charlie. No matter what the numbers are against each forward. We don’t honour leads from others or look to lower the eyes to go short.

That’s coaching.

Nailed it re point 1.

This is the biggest area where we need to improve. I understand Voss's pressure and contest game style but it's too exhausting to rinse and repeat over 4 quarters week after week. we just shouldn't be making every single kick be to a contest.

and yes re point 2.

Because we don't have much run and carry off half back we're effectively a kick short of being able to take advantage of leading forwards. it's just too slow a build up which then results in a kick to a contest 9 times out of 10.

 

[Coops93]

Can remember an elite kick for us?

Who was the last one?

Chris Yarran for a brief period was arguably the best and most damaging player in the game ball in hand.

A 70m player, run 30m then a pinpoint 40m pass to a chest without breaking stride.

Genuinely reminded me of Andrew McLeod.

 

[drewdimes]

Fair points and I don't disagree BUT I still believe we don't even try to improve certain things.

I don't care how good a player is if they can't look up and hit a target in space they shouldn't be playing. We simply don't look. It seems obvious to most (even opposition coaches) yet Voss doesn't address it

The other key point that was obvious last night is how much the Hawks get in and shephard, screen, create space for teammates and do the simple things well. That is coaching and structure NOT talent

Chol's first mark of the night on Young exemplifies the Hawks' attention to detail regarding blocking and creating space for eachother. Chol bodies up on Young and creates space, Watson comes into this space and effectively removes Young from the contest, resulting in an easy mark to Chol and a set shot 30ish meters out.

Numerous other examples of shepards and blocks in transition. Hawks play for eachother, we play for ourselves. We used to fly the flag for eachother in the good run of 2023, what happened to that?

 

[Soapy V]

Chol's first mark of the night on Young exemplifies the Hawks' attention to detail regarding blocking and creating space for eachother. Chol bodies up on Young and creates space, Watson comes into this space and effectively removes Young from the contest, resulting in an easy mark to Chol and a set shot 30ish meters out.

Numerous other examples of shepards and blocks in transition. Hawks play for eachother, we play for ourselves. We used to fly the flag for eachother in the good run of 2023, what happened to that?

Good post. I think we do play for each other and did last night. We just don't play smart or are drilled in these things. What Hawks do isn't by accident. It's practiced over and over again

We simply don't even practice these things

IMO it highlights our coaching issues. We seem to miss/ignore so many simple basic things. As a side we do NOT do the basics well

 

[Stamos]

The other key point that was obvious last night is how much the Hawks get in and shephard, screen, create space for teammates and do the simple things well. That is coaching and structure NOT talent

THIS!!!!!
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE UP THE BACK!!!!

 

[Stamos]

Good post. I think we do play for each other and did last night. We just don't play smart or are drilled in these things. What Hawks do isn't by accident. It's practiced over and over again

We simply don't even practice these things

IMO it highlights our coaching issues. We seem to miss/ignore so many simple basic things. As a side we do NOT do the basics well

Been our biggest issue for a long time.

 

[DangerousD]

A lot of people criticise our forwards, particularly our smalls BUT I just wonder how good they would be if ball was delievered better?

Issue for me at the moment is we kick it in the same every time and the opposition are ready for it. We don't give them a chance. I reckon any small forward would struggle in our set up

I have said it for three years now. We don't get easy goals. Everything is an effort

I refuse to believe that our players are just collectively dumber than other sides, all of these guys have played footy their whole lives and should know how to lead at the ball carrier, lead away from congestion to make space, to not get in the way of other forwards.

Our struggles as you say are because of our terrible game plan

 

[TheKing101]

Chris Yarran for a brief period was arguably the best and most damaging player in the game ball in hand.

A 70m player, run 30m then a pinpoint 40m pass to a chest without breaking stride.

Genuinely reminded me of Andrew McLeod.

Yarran would be heaven sent in this team. Everything Saad should be for us.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stamos]

I refuse to believe that our players are just collectively dumber than other sides, all of these guys have played footy their whole lives and should know how to lead at the ball carrier, lead away from congestion to make space, to not get in the way of other forwards.

Our struggles as you say are because of our terrible game plan

It's not the big picture game plan that's the (biggest) problem.

We are 'collectively dumber' because we aren't drilled well enough to be collectively smarter. This is a coaching/training issue.

 

[CoachB]

Not only did they hit targets, the targets were in programmed locations with blockers to support. It amazed me that they set up professional blockers to stop spoilers all night and not a single blocking free kick paid, but admire the coaching. Can only dream of a fundamentally sound team with NFL type tactics progressing the ball.

 

[xDQ82x]

We dump kick more than any other team, in all areas on the ground

 

[DangerousD]

WARNING very unpopular opinion incoming ..

Come end of the year we need to make some serious list changes to put us in contention/sure up our future.

Trade Charlie .. has to be one of the biggest flat track bullies to pull on the jumper. For the life of me I cannot understand the hype around this bloke. Doesn't chase, sooks it up and won 2 Coleman medals off the back of beating up ordinary sides like North and West Coast. Whilst there is still hype around him, get him off the books, pick up 2 first round picks and sure up the future.

I not going to bag your post but before we do anything like this, the club needs to be sure its the players who are the problem or the coach.

I think all our issues stem from poor coaching and a coach who knows what they are doing would see a much better performance.

 

[Soapy V]

I refuse to believe that our players are just collectively dumber than other sides, all of these guys have played footy their whole lives and should know how to lead at the ball carrier, lead away from congestion to make space, to not get in the way of other forwards.

Our struggles as you say are because of our terrible game plan

and doing the basics well. Last two weeks have really highlighted this for me. We play like a bunch of individuals

How many shepards, blocks, screens, creation of space do you see? With Tigers and moreso Hawks I saw heaps

Someone mentioned earlier the Tigers three flags and how bottom 5-6 players weren't great. They weren't, but they did the basics well and played to a team plan and as such they trusted each other

Not once in the last 2-3 years have I seen us practice or discuss space, sheparding and all the things every good side does well

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Not only did they hit targets, the targets were in programmed locations with blockers to support. It amazed me that they set up professional blockers to stop spoilers all night and not a single blocking free kick paid, but admire the coaching. Can only dream of a fundamentally sound team with NFL type tactics progressing the ball.

yep, they blocked a lot.

And got away with it every time...

 

[BringFevBack2021]

People aren't basing their frustration off the back of 2 games though...

It’s probably facetious of me to suggest they are, I treat every season as a clean slate but I understand that others might not

 

[Soapy V]

I not going to bag your post but before we do anything like this, the club needs to be sure its the players who are the problem or the coach.

I think all our issues stem from poor coaching and a coach who knows what they are doing would see a much better performance.

It's like blaming an F1 driver for driving badly in a poor car. Hard to tell. For rookies it's even harder

Until he gets into a very good car it is almost impossible to assess how good he really is

I struggle to truly assess many of our players because the way we play makes it nearly impossible to be very good

 

[berisha]

He’s speaking to his team through the media.

Worst thing he could do for Charlie’s confidence is single him ( or anyone else ) out.

He’s backing his team in to raise confidence.

Don’t worry - media & “supporters” already doing a great job of lambasting individuals - as though that achieves something!

You can downplay a performance without singling or even really criticising a player. For me, it shows a lack of accountability by the coach and MC.

Voss doesn't need to come out and say that Curnow was terrible, but maybe take some ownership for playing an underdone Curnow.

To say that he competed well is just a joke. JSOS competed well. If Charlie had half the heart and desire that JSOS has he'd be on another level.

 

[RPCB]

 

[Stamos]

and doing the basics well. Last two weeks have really highlighted this for me. We play like a bunch of individuals

How many shepards, blocks, screens, creation of space do you see? With Tigers and moreso Hawks I saw heaps

Someone mentioned earlier the Tigers three flags and how bottom 5-6 players weren't great. They weren't, but they did the basics well and played to a team plan and as such they trusted each other

Not once in the last 2-3 years have I seen us practice or discuss space, sheparding and all the things every good side does well

I'm going to hazard a guess you didn't see it much in the 3 years prior to that either?

 

[Dramoth]

I wonder how long Hawthorn played with 19 players on the field?