List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

Rebuild or refresh?

  • Rebuild

    Votes: 19 27.1%
  • Refresh

    Votes: 51 72.9%

  • Total voters
    70

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Moppey

Debutant
Oct 24, 2020
100
220
AFL Club
Richmond
In my opinion, you only rebuild when you have failed to manage your list correctly. It's effectively the 'wipe the floor clean' and start again theory. I don't think we'll place ourselves it that position anytime soon, if ever. We learned the hard way that getting rid of your leaders and 'cultural glue' of the club to bring in youth does not work.

I still remember when we had 5 picks inside the top 20 and thought it would set us up for a flag. Not only did we stuff the drafting and ruin their development but we threw all our youth to the wolves by playing them to early without the protection of senior players.

Continuing to build beneath, is the best way to stay at the top and give your youth the opportunity to reach their full potential. If that still isn't good enough then it also gives you the chance replace them and try again all while your older core players continue to succeed on the main stage.

I think we are doing just that - refreshing the list and I also think we are doing it extremely well. I have confidence that Bolton, Baker, Balta, Short and Graham will form a strong core for us in 5+ years. I also have faith that Stack, CCJ, Ross, Naish and Dow will join them. As long as we keep finding other gems in the draft and trade in talent when the opportunity arises, I can see us continuing to make the rest of the football world jealous for many years to come
You mean like we did in 2010. That was a clean out End of 2004 hardly.

Clubs are always in rebuild just about half of every clubs list would be made up of players aged 22 and under. Every club has its share of younger players getting games our trouble is we have a whole pile entering the 30 plus bracket and not enough currently coming thru to balance it out over the next couple of seasons.

We had an abundance of mature players in 2005 the yr after we had a so called clean out. First game of that year we had eleven blokes with 100 games plus the average age was 25yr 114 days. We didnt get rid of our leaders in one mass exodus.
2005 first game of the yr We played 6 blokes aged 22 or under a 17 yr old Deledio, 18yo Jackson and 19 yo Roach the rest were 22.

To name a few mature types or leaders , Bowden 26, Johnson 27, Campbell 32, Richo 30, Simmonds 26, Gaspar 28, Hall 24, Knobel 24, Brown 27,Tivendale 25, Kellaway 29, Stafford 28, Chaffey 27, Graham 32,

Some of the blokes we cut at the end of 2004
Dragacevic hardly established and injury riddled.
D Kellaway retired in his 30's,
Blumfield gave us nothing and was a mistake to trade him in.
Fleming lol no wonder we could not win games with players like him getting regular games..
Houlihan another dud.
Fiora what a waste of such a good pick in a word dud. we would continue to make draft blunders like this.
Zantuck some liked him i thought him ordinary
Rogers retired aged 30.
Ottens he wanted out it got us two first rounders 12 and 16 which we proceeded to waste.

Two experienced retirements one high quality big man traded. the rest duds. We kept the vast majority of our leaders father time would see to them over time.
The real trouble was we did not have the players or quality and it would take an inordinate amount of time to get them.

A notable point is our better players have mostly come from the earlish parts of the nd.the glue if you like.

Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt Edwards Rance, Bolton Vlastuin, even our good trades originally from the early part of the nd Prestia, Lynch,
 

Jonesracing82

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 13, 2011
5,352
12,841
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
hate them all
In my opinion, you only rebuild when you have failed to manage your list correctly. It's effectively the 'wipe the floor clean' and start again theory. I don't think we'll place ourselves it that position anytime soon, if ever. We learned the hard way that getting rid of your leaders and 'cultural glue' of the club to bring in youth does not work.

I still remember when we had 5 picks inside the top 20 and thought it would set us up for a flag. Not only did we stuff the drafting and ruin their development but we threw all our youth to the wolves by playing them to early without the protection of senior players.

Continuing to build beneath, is the best way to stay at the top and give your youth the opportunity to reach their full potential. If that still isn't good enough then it also gives you the chance replace them and try again all while your older core players continue to succeed on the main stage.

I think we are doing just that - refreshing the list and I also think we are doing it extremely well. I have confidence that Bolton, Baker, Balta, Short and Graham will form a strong core for us in 5+ years. I also have faith that Stack, CCJ, Ross, Naish and Dow will join them. As long as we keep finding other gems in the draft and trade in talent when the opportunity arises, I can see us continuing to make the rest of the football world jealous for many years to come
This is why i'd like to see us use the 6 picks in the Draft, 5 minimum. Our current "Best 22" allows the kids to develope properly in the VFL & let them force thier way in instead of throwing them in too early. Also builds thier hunger for when they get thier shot at it.
 

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Jonesracing82

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 13, 2011
5,352
12,841
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
hate them all
I could be wrong but I think you must make at least 3 changes to your list. That means you can delist players and then redraft them later if you choose but three players need to come off your list as a minimum...I think :think:
This is correct. Unsure on the limit on draft picks u can take in but u can only use picks until the list is full.
 

docko911

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 12, 2009
7,838
15,441
Hobart
AFL Club
Richmond
We’re still in a great position that allows us to find the next stars through their naturally development and opportunities. When we have to start forcing x player to cover a position is when it becomes a rebuild issue. However, if we find enough players before we start losing our senior guys we can use trades/FA to fill any gaps.
 

smurfin

Club Legend
Apr 1, 2016
2,020
5,730
Central Victoria
AFL Club
Richmond
I still don't have a clear answer to my question.
If we have (for example) 4 spaces on our list on draft night, can we still use our 5th & 6th picks for live trading (for futures, or upgrades) on draft night?
Or do we enter the draft hall with only our first 4 picks and our later picks are wasted?
I know it used to be the latter, but with live trading on draft night it makes sense that surplus picks should still be available for trading.
 

Grechy

Premiership Player
Mar 10, 2005
4,602
8,068
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Liverpool, Houston Rockets
You mean like we did in 2010. That was a clean out End of 2004 hardly.

Clubs are always in rebuild just about half of every clubs list would be made up of players aged 22 and under. Every club has its share of younger players getting games our trouble is we have a whole pile entering the 30 plus bracket and not enough currently coming thru to balance it out over the next couple of seasons.

We had an abundance of mature players in 2005 the yr after we had a so called clean out. First game of that year we had eleven blokes with 100 games plus the average age was 25yr 114 days. We didnt get rid of our leaders in one mass exodus.
2005 first game of the yr We played 6 blokes aged 22 or under a 17 yr old Deledio, 18yo Jackson and 19 yo Roach the rest were 22.

To name a few mature types or leaders , Bowden 26, Johnson 27, Campbell 32, Richo 30, Simmonds 26, Gaspar 28, Hall 24, Knobel 24, Brown 27,Tivendale 25, Kellaway 29, Stafford 28, Chaffey 27, Graham 32,

Some of the blokes we cut at the end of 2004
Dragacevic hardly established and injury riddled.
D Kellaway retired in his 30's,
Blumfield gave us nothing and was a mistake to trade him in.
Fleming lol no wonder we could not win games with players like him getting regular games..
Houlihan another dud.
Fiora what a waste of such a good pick in a word dud. we would continue to make draft blunders like this.
Zantuck some liked him i thought him ordinary
Rogers retired aged 30.
Ottens he wanted out it got us two first rounders 12 and 16 which we proceeded to waste.

Two experienced retirements one high quality big man traded. the rest duds. We kept the vast majority of our leaders father time would see to them over time.
The real trouble was we did not have the players or quality and it would take an inordinate amount of time to get them.

A notable point is our better players have mostly come from the earlish parts of the nd.the glue if you like.

Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt Edwards Rance, Bolton Vlastuin, even our good trades originally from the early part of the nd Prestia, Lynch,
Looking at those names below 2004. Jesus we were a basket case.
 

Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Aug 19, 2009
7,909
20,090
Canberra
AFL Club
Richmond
I still don't have a clear answer to my question.
If we have (for example) 4 spaces on our list on draft night, can we still use our 5th & 6th picks for live trading (for futures, or upgrades) on draft night?
Or do we enter the draft hall with only our first 4 picks and our later picks are wasted?
I know it used to be the latter, but with live trading on draft night it makes sense that surplus picks should still be available for trading.
We can trade out picks until we have filled our list I believe.

It would be weird if we could trade dead picks when we are out of the draft.

But until we are out of the draft anything can happen trade wise.
 

YeOldTiger

Club Legend
Jul 22, 2016
2,800
9,810
AFL Club
Richmond
I still don't have a clear answer to my question.
If we have (for example) 4 spaces on our list on draft night, can we still use our 5th & 6th picks for live trading (for futures, or upgrades) on draft night?
Or do we enter the draft hall with only our first 4 picks and our later picks are wasted?
I know it used to be the latter, but with live trading on draft night it makes sense that surplus picks should still be available for trading.
Package up our later picks with earlier ones and trade up. Just keep trading up with the goal of having three picks inside 20 and hopefully at least one inside 10.
 

sregit

Club Legend
Feb 9, 2012
1,965
3,858
Hawthorn
AFL Club
Richmond
I still don't have a clear answer to my question.
If we have (for example) 4 spaces on our list on draft night, can we still use our 5th & 6th picks for live trading (for futures, or upgrades) on draft night?
Or do we enter the draft hall with only our first 4 picks and our later picks are wasted?
I know it used to be the latter, but with live trading on draft night it makes sense that surplus picks should still be available for trading.
RFC will move players back to the rookie list if necessary to accommodating the number of players they wish draft. Surplus picks that hold any value will be traded for pick upgrades or for picks from clubs (2022) who require points this year eg Collingwood.
 

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A Tiger 4 lyf

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 26, 2013
8,769
15,775
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Man U, Chicago Bulls, Anaheim Ducks
Astbury (shouldn’t go on)
Houli (shouldn’t go on)
Edwards (depending on how serious that injury is)
Cotchin (shouldn’t go on)
Riewoldt (Shouldn’t go on)

Unfortunately for the club, that’s not going to happen


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

David_Full

All Australian
Nov 28, 2017
876
1,769
AFL Club
Richmond
Been saying it all year.

Not deviating from it we another A-grade midfielder

Need to also keep Shai Bolton hopefully Carr & the Club come to some middle ground.

Tough decisions will need to be made on a couple of players at the end of the year.

We added no one to the list in the trade period while going for a 3peat we only lost players...
 

fargothegreat

It's time for Tasmania to join the AFL.
Oct 8, 2011
4,652
11,035
Hobart
AFL Club
Richmond
Been saying it all year.

Not deviating from it we another A-grade midfielder

Need to also keep Shai Bolton hopefully Carr & the Club come to some middle ground.

Tough decisions will need to be made on a couple of players at the end of the year.

We added no one to the list in the trade period while going for a 3peat we only lost players...
We need a replacement for Cotch. Another hard at it ball winning mid.

No kid we draft is going to be able to do this role in their first year, so we should be going hard after someone like Tom Green.
 

Lsta062

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 15, 2014
15,459
30,615
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Chelsea, LA Lakers, Western United
If we are to refresh properly, then we need to get A or B-grade talent across from other teams this off-season. We don’t have the top picks to be bringing in A-graders like Petracca and Matt Rowell through the draft (Shai Bolton is the exception - not the rule) so we need to bring them in through trading. We have more than enough picks to do this (although salary cap may be a concern).

If I’m going to be specific, we need to be going for a good tall defender and an elite small forward. Right now, there isn’t much competition for those spots which is why we’ve kept the same line-up in those areas regardless of how they’re performing this season.

Midfield would be the next area, but not as necessary as those parts of the grounds in the immediate future in my opinion. Apart from that I think we have the players to successfully do a quick refresh should we dip this year or next year.
 

David_Full

All Australian
Nov 28, 2017
876
1,769
AFL Club
Richmond
We need a replacement for Cotch. Another hard at it ball winning mid.

No kid we draft is going to be able to do this role in their first year, so we should be going hard after someone like Tom Green.
That's why we need a Dunkley type player, I know he just did his shoulder but he is exactly who we need someone that can get in there win the contested ball dish it out to better users like Dusty.
 

GastevsBeard

All Australian
Aug 18, 2009
703
2,154
AFL Club
Richmond
Our midfield right now is absolutely cooked - we have two jets (Dust/Bolt) - but they both play the same attacking role. We are painfully under-resourced for blokes who can win it at the coal-face with skip/meatball out - we really needed to pick up a Crouch or Jones type in the past few off-seasons
 

Marcel Proust

"Oohh WADA ooga booga" {Jul 11 2013}
Sep 6, 2018
16,765
26,797
#BigBigSound
AFL Club
Richmond
Our midfield right now is absolutely cooked - we have two jets (Dust/Bolt) - but they both play the same attacking role. We are painfully under-resourced for blokes who can win it at the coal-face with skip/meatball out - we really needed to pick up a Crouch or Jones type in the past few off-seasons
Won't look so bad if some of the young mids can develop. Save more cap room to sign bolton until 2029 too.

Cotchin. Prestia. Lambert. Is a bit of class out. Edwards injury sucks
 

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