List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

Rebuild or refresh?

  • Rebuild

    Votes: 19 26.8%
  • Refresh

    Votes: 52 73.2%

  • Total voters
    71

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Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Aug 19, 2009
7,920
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I think your underrating how long guns can hang around for and how quickly gun draftees can surge with a bit of quality development.

I read this and it seems your take is for us to go gun ho and go all for the now and then big rebuild. I think we can be smarter than that without going all for the now like Hawks and Geelong. I think we can do a Port and be very vibrant in 4-5 years with top drafting as well as other recruits like through FA and other options.

I would rather we win 4 to 5 premierships over the next ten years than get close in two, possibly win and then fall off a cliff. I do not want to see another 1980's when ego got ahead of dedication and focus and vision as well as drive.

Carlotn are a great example of ignoring the draft at your own peril. They only seemed interested in number one picks after the spoon
Agree

For the next 5 or so years we need to keep building depth so that we can compete as Cotch and Bachar etc fall off. After that it'll be all about whether we have managed to get 5 or so A grader in from the draft. Currently I'd say we have 2 looking likely, balta and Shai (already there almost). Maybe Graham too if he can hit his highs regularly. We have a heap of other talent - RCD, Stack, Ross etc. Get the best out of them + our drafting over the next few years and we could win another GF or 2, then fast rebuild and be competitive for another 5-8 years.
 

Marcel Proust

"Oohh WADA ooga booga" {Jul 11 2013}
Sep 6, 2018
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Agreed.
There's a reason players like Cotchin & Dusty go top 3 in the draft.
We are all hopeful that Graham, Ross, RCD & Dow will step up. But if you watch recent top picks like Rowell & Walsh, there is a fair gap between them and our potential future midfielders.
Can't hurt the development of Mansell, Ross, RCD etc. To get a result against a undefeated team.

Cotchin lead them heroically imo
 

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Jonesracing82

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 13, 2011
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Melbourne
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hate them all
While you're in the zone go as hard as you can.

But we've also seen that drafting and developing kids can get you very good talent, while you're on top. Balta, Shai. baker, Aarts ;) .

I say go as hard as you can to win another premiership or 2. And as much as possible bring through younger players. When Cotch and Bachar go we'll have decent talent to bring in, surrounded by a damn good team. Get another Shai or 2 and we'll be a contended for years.

We're on the edge of a full rebuild whilst winning titles. It isn't either or, it's trying to do both.
With guys wanting to go for game time elsewhere etc, i like the idea of trading for future picks, build up on our youth we already have. If it works it'll revolutionise the way list management is done & we'll have a massive head start on the chasing pack
 

Marcel Proust

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Sep 6, 2018
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With guys wanting to go for game time elsewhere etc, i like the idea of trading for future picks, build up on our youth we already have. If it works it'll revolutionise the way list management is done & we'll have a massive head start on the chasing pack
Should trade back to the 22' draft just for the lols
 

Moppey

Debutant
Oct 24, 2020
101
223
AFL Club
Richmond
I think your underrating how long guns can hang around for and how quickly gun draftees can surge with a bit of quality development.

I read this and it seems your take is for us to go gun ho and go all for the now and then big rebuild. I think we can be smarter than that without going all for the now like Hawks and Geelong. I think we can do a Port and be very vibrant in 4-5 years with top drafting as well as other recruits like through FA and other options.

I would rather we win 4 to 5 premierships over the next ten years than get close in two, possibly win and then fall off a cliff. I do not want to see another 1980's when ego got ahead of dedication and focus and vision as well as drive.

Carlton are a great example of ignoring the draft at your own peril. They only seemed interested in number one picks after the spoon
wtf !!!!how the hell you came to those conclusions on the back of that post is beyond me. Just unbelievable.
 

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4tune8

Premiership Player
Jul 31, 2017
3,999
8,336
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Picks as at this morning:-
13, 14, 24, 31,46, 49

Collingwood picks;-
38,56,74,92,110,128.
Collingwood will have to match a likely pick 1 bid on Nick Daicos, which means that all of their picks go to the back of the draft. They can bring forward a future pick but they're in a world of pain with no one of any value left to trade out.

Guess they could save some salary and pay another team to take on Grundy.....for a future round 2 pick
 

tony__montana

Premiership Player
Jan 25, 2018
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Keep doing what we’re doing, we are unearthing some absolute gems, players who will be part our next core. Just have to find the balance of putting enough games into them so that there isn’t more than a 1-2 year downtime. Anymore than that without tangible proof of improvement and you run the risk of the organisation losing the faith and confidence and then potentially imploding - and we all know that improvement in afl footy is not linear, there are ups and down and going backwards so it’s easy for clubs and supporters to get restless and call for a rebuild.

RN I have faith that Graham, Shai, Balta, Baker, Short, Soldo are an intricate part of our next core.

If Stack, Dow, RCD, Ross, Mansell CJ and GarthWaite step up and show they are legitimately part of it as well then we are in an amazing place.

Some people look at the ages of our players and think how are we going to replace them all? we don’t have enough talent coming though - we’ll duh, we will be hitting multiple draft and trade periods before they all go so relax.

Based on age and/or injury concerns, the players that look closest to moving on over the next 2 seasons are Bachar, Jack and Cotch and maybe Astbury. Edwards is 32 but physically in great shape but I suppose you can also put him in that bracket. That’s 4-5 players, great plyers and part of our leadership. That’s also 1-2 more years of development into players like RCD, Ross, Stack, Mansell and Dow as well as our development players like Garth, Hugo, Cumberland, Biggie, Ryan etc

I reckon we’re in great shape. We stay the course and just make sure we keep getting games into these youngsters at every opp like we’re doing with Mansell and Ross this season so far.
 
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beema limapep

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Oct 29, 2017
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Collingwood will have to match a likely pick 1 bid on Nick Daicos, which means that all of their picks go to the back of the draft. They can bring forward a future pick but they're in a world of pain with no one of any value left to trade out.

Guess they could save some salary and pay another team to take on Grundy.....for a future round 2 pick
Would you tempt them with our future 2022 1st and say our current pick 24 for Moore?
 

fargothegreat

It's time for Tasmania to join the AFL.
Oct 8, 2011
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Nah, would only offer a future 2nd if they agreed to pay 350k/year of his salary;)

Seriously though, I don't think that we need a 3rd tall forward....

Actually serious now.....I think he'd be a handy backup for Broad or Balta.
You're way underrating Darcy Moore. He would be our best key defender.

He's only 25 though, so young enough to still be at Collingwood when they're contending again ... just.
 

4tune8

Premiership Player
Jul 31, 2017
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You're way underrating Darcy Moore. He would be our best key defender.

He's only 25 though, so young enough to still be at Collingwood when they're contending again ... just.
A very 'tongue in cheek' post from me, sorry.

I do rate Moore and think he would be a great addition to our backline, his cost would be prohibitive though
 

THE_GUN

R.I.P Shane Tuck 21
Dec 28, 2007
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I would seriously be dangling our 2022 1st rounder + 2021 2nd rounder + 2021 3rd rounder for their 2022 1st round pick

will be a top 4/5 pick and we have not had one of these in a long time

we would still go into 2021 draft with
2 x 1st rounders
1 x St Kilda 2nd rounder
1 x GC 3rd rounder
 

BringOn2017

Debutant
Apr 27, 2016
146
257
AFL Club
Richmond
Yep. Take advantage of Collingwood’s need for draft points in 2021 and get their 2022 first.

With 4 draft hands inside the top 30 picks this year, leaves us with so many options.
 

smurfin

Club Legend
Apr 1, 2016
2,024
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Central Victoria
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Richmond
Have they changed the rules about the number of picks you take to the draft?
I recall that it was that you could only take the same amount of picks as list spaces.
ie If we don't have 6 list spaces before the draft, will we have to trade away some of our picks for futures before the draft or else lose them for nothing?
Has live trading on draft night changed that rule so you can now bring surplus picks for trading?
 

Football Tragic

Club Legend
Nov 11, 2010
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Punt Rd End
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Have they changed the rules about the number of picks you take to the draft?
I recall that it was that you could only take the same amount of picks as list spaces.
ie If we don't have 6 list spaces before the draft, will we have to trade away some of our picks for futures before the draft or else lose them for nothing?
Has live trading on draft night changed that rule so you can now bring surplus picks for trading?
I could be wrong but I think you must make at least 3 changes to your list. That means you can delist players and then redraft them later if you choose but three players need to come off your list as a minimum...I think :think:
 

Football Tragic

Club Legend
Nov 11, 2010
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Punt Rd End
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In my opinion, you only rebuild when you have failed to manage your list correctly. It's effectively the 'wipe the floor clean' and start again theory. I don't think we'll place ourselves it that position anytime soon, if ever. We learned the hard way that getting rid of your leaders and 'cultural glue' of the club to bring in youth does not work.

I still remember when we had 5 picks inside the top 20 and thought it would set us up for a flag. Not only did we stuff the drafting and ruin their development but we threw all our youth to the wolves by playing them to early without the protection of senior players.

Continuing to build beneath, is the best way to stay at the top and give your youth the opportunity to reach their full potential. If that still isn't good enough then it also gives you the chance replace them and try again all while your older core players continue to succeed on the main stage.

I think we are doing just that - refreshing the list and I also think we are doing it extremely well. I have confidence that Bolton, Baker, Balta, Short and Graham will form a strong core for us in 5+ years. I also have faith that Stack, CCJ, Ross, Naish and Dow will join them. As long as we keep finding other gems in the draft and trade in talent when the opportunity arises, I can see us continuing to make the rest of the football world jealous for many years to come
 

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