List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

[Mr Magic]

Why does it have to be from the draft ??

Why cant it be say a player like Toranto/Hopper

Hopper is not good enough for mine, better in the draft and better value.

Taranto, not sure on the value for him either but a better prospect

 

[JR82]

Let's talk about what we're talking about: Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt.

If you think it's refresh, then you keep all three. You add a few kids via the draft, develop a few kids currently playing VFL (e.g. HRS, Gibcus) and pick your best team every week to try and win the game.

If you think it's rebuild, then at least two of them (and perhaps all three) leave the clubs at the end of 2022. You use the salary cap space to bring in an inside mid (to replace Cotch), you hand over the forward line to Lynch + Cumberland (replacing Riewoldt) and you play more kids.

I don't think we're winning the flag in 2023, so I think it's time to rebuild.

For mine it's a refresh, our kids would have learned a great deal from this yr (esp with all the close finishes). By doing this we should be in a similar position next yr, hence avoiding bottoming out which a rebuild entails then from '24 we should starting rising up again. We already have a good young core developing together so IMO a full rebuild isn't necessary at this stage. The 3 guys u mention have earned the right to make the call themselves. Are any of them keeping a kid out of the side? I'd rather a kid pushes them out of the side & this hasn't happened as yet. Cotch could play as a rotation mid next yr by starting on the bench with Sonsie as a starting mid for example. Dow/RCD haven't been banging the door down this yr for Cotch's spot in the side next yr.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Hopper is not good enough for mine, better in the draft and better value.

Taranto, not sure on the value for him either but a better prospect

So put your balls on the line , Name the player you believe is better in the draft apart from the top 7-8 gun kids that wont be available to us

 

[Mr Magic]

So put your balls on the line , Name the player you believe is better in the draft apart from the top 7-8 gun kids that wont be available to us

I think your overrating Hopper.

What we get in the draft last for longer years and we the extra salary cap we can get better players down the track

Most trade do not work as a rule generally

Look at the St Kilda lists.

Look at how CFC is going after how many trades?

 

[JR82]

I think your overrating Hopper.

What we get in the draft last for longer years and we the extra salary cap we can get better players down the track

Most trade do not work as a rule generally

Our trades in the last few yrs have been great, recall the '16 trio we traded in?

 

[Mr Magic]

Our trades in the last few yrs have been great, recall the '16 trio we traded in?

Nank was a clear winner.

Prestia worked with the Lynch link, Caddy was not expensive

Yarran and others where flops

Have to remember the other teams are not great, so a surge from the draftees makes a big difference. Look at Cumberland. After next year Castagna and others can go

Now Bolton has Cumberland, Balta, and other youngsters to help me and give cause to stay

The other thing Richmond needs to do is get the most out of Dusty and help him enjoy his footy experience

 

[JR82]

Nank was a clear winner.

Prestia worked with the Lynch link, Caddy was not expensive

Yarran and others where flops

Have to remember the other teams are not great, so a surge from the draftees makes a big difference. Look at Cumberland. After next year Castagna and others can go

All 3 added something to the siede & led us to the promised land. Yarran was a flog as Carlton kept his off field issue's from us. I agree on the kids, they'll be better next yr & some already look like they'll be very decent players.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

I think your overrating Hopper.

What we get in the draft last for longer years and we the extra salary cap we can get better players down the track

Most trade do not work as a rule generally

Look at the St Kilda lists.

Look at how CFC is going after how many trades?

And look at how many 1st rounders dont ever become 1/3rd the player Hopper is.

Top 5-10 players are probably running around 50% of becoming anywhere near 200 game player
after top 10 maybe 10%

You mention Carlton how many draftee's have they had the last 20 years that have become - NOTHING
How is norths kids ?
GWS with a million top 10 picks
GC ditto

Or Maybe we go back to 2016 Richmond Prestia , Nank , Caddy pretty much got us going

 

[Mr Magic]

And look at how many 1st rounders dont ever become 1/3rd the player Hopper is.

Top 5-10 players are probably running around 50% of becoming anywhere near 200 game player
after top 10 maybe 10%

You mention Carlton how many draftee's have they had the last 20 years that have become - NOTHING
How is norths kids ?
GWS with a million top 10 picks
GC ditto

Or Maybe we go back to 2016 Richmond Prestia , Nank , Caddy pretty much got us going

What has Hopper done? Ed Curnow got near 200 games. Whoopie do

We are trying to win premierships, not make up the number

Prestia was a GC draft pick??

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

What has Hopper done? Ed Curnow got near 200 games. Whoopie do

We are trying to win premierships, not make up the number

FMD Ed Curnow a bloody tagger , Your coming up with him ??

Jacob Hopper Stats 2021 -23 games played
27 - Poss
3 - marks
0.4 - Goals
4 - tackles
4.3 - Inside 50's
400 - mtrs gained

These are Elite inside outside mid numbers by anybody's measure

 

[Mr Magic]

FMD Ed Curnow a bloody tagger , Your coming up with him ??

Jacob Hopper Stats 2021 -23 games played
27 - Poss
3 - marks
0.4 - Goals
4 - tackles
4.3 - Inside 50's
400 - mtrs gained

These are Elite inside outside mid numbers by anybody's measure.

Quality not quantity. Those stats are meaningless.

Three marks is pretty poor for a guy taller than 185cm

Quality not quantity. Those stats are meaningless Three marks is pretty poor for a guy taller than 185cm.

Only elite for fools looking at numbers

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Quality not quantity. Those stats are meaningless

Get your head out of the sand mate the man is going at 68% for an inside mid
these are elite numbers in anybody eyes except yours

Which 18 year old kid picked after pick 10 would you take instead of Hopper

 

[Mr Magic]

Get your head out of the sand mate the man is going at 68% for an inside mid
these are elite numbers in anybody eyes except yours

Which 18 year old kid picked after pick 10 would you take instead of Hopper

most of them.

27 possessions needs to be spilt for handball, kick ratio.

Hopper spread from the contest not good enough

68 percent needs to be broken up into where on the ground and against which defences.

GWS known to be flat track bullies, downhill skiers

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

most of them.

27 possessions needs to be spilt for handball, kick ratio.

Hopper spread from the contest not good enough

50% HB 50% kicks

Dion Prestia and Jacob Hopper AFL Stats Comparison

Dion Prestia and Jacob Hopper AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Mr Magic]

50% HB 50% kicks

Dion Prestia and Jacob Hopper AFL Stats Comparison

Dion Prestia and Jacob Hopper AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

not good enough.

You don't compare him to Prestia , you compare him to 185cmplus taller inside mids

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

not good enough.

You don't compare him to Prestia , you compare him to 185cmplus taller inside mids

Go and compare him to who ever you like

Your rattled

 

[Mr Magic]

Go and compare him to who ever you like

Your rattled

I am not rattled. We have one Prestia, we do not want another Prestia and we have Graham, Sonsie and Cotch

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

I am not rattled. We have one Prestia, we do not want another Prestia and we have Graham, Sonsie and Cotch

Sorry Mate , You really have now gone off the track

maybe go back and read your posts and your welcome to delete them as they are not doing your cred any favours, Its 1 am in the morning and you are either drunk or been on some of Dimma's choof.

 

[Mr Magic]

Sorry Mate , You really have now gone off the track

maybe go back and read your posts and your welcome to delete them as they are not doing your cred any favours, Its 1 am in the morning and you are either drunk or been on some of Dimma's choof.

I am not interested in my cred, I am calling it as I see it, no sources involved at all

 

[energyquant]

For mine it's a refresh, our kids would have learned a great deal from this yr (esp with all the close finishes). By doing this we should be in a similar position next yr, hence avoiding bottoming out which a rebuild entails then from '24 we should starting rising up again. We already have a good young core developing together so IMO a full rebuild isn't necessary at this stage. The 3 guys u mention have earned the right to make the call themselves. Are any of them keeping a kid out of the side? I'd rather a kid pushes them out of the side & this hasn't happened as yet. Cotch could play as a rotation mid next yr by starting on the bench with Sonsie as a starting mid for example. Dow/RCD haven't been banging the door down this yr for Cotch's spot in the side next yr.

Fair call, but how do we know until we try (e.g. Miller, Sonsie and Cumberland)? Trent, Jack and Dusty aren't going to get better next year. People were complaining about carry Shedda to 300 and the impact it had on the team. Try carrying three ageing champions in a middle-ranked team. It's just my opinion that waiting is delaying the inevitable.

 

[Infamy]

Fair call, but how do we know until we try (e.g. Miller, Sonsie and Cumberland)? Trent, Jack and Dusty aren't going to get better next year. People were complaining about carry Shedda to 300 and the impact it had on the team. Try carrying three ageing champions in a middle-ranked team. It's just my opinion that waiting is delaying the inevitable.

Sorry, just to clarify, you think we'd be carrying Dusty in 2023?

 

[SleepingGiant]

Re Hopper or Taranto, when will people realise that buying players and trading away your future for B graders results in long term mediocrity only for a Gold Coast or Sydney to dominate you for the next few years let alone trying to overcome a Melbourne does not work?

Do you really think getting Hopper is going to dismantle Melbourne with our list at the moment? You have to absolutely kidding yourselves if you think we can win the flag next year trading for a B+ mid to think that makes our midfield anywhere remotely near our 2017 prime Cotchin, Prestia, Martin, Edwards midfield.

 

[energyquant]

Sorry, just to clarify, you think we'd be carrying Dusty in 2023?

If he's #eco - yes. I love the guy, but he might be done.

 

[Falcon3518]

I think we need to get 3 (minimum 2) inside mids at are at least 185cm and 85kg. We get bullied to much in the middle and can’t mark to save our lives. Also I don’t think people are mentioning wingers much on here, Macintosh and picketer are ok much I think we need better ones eventually, anybody know some trade targets/draft picks for the above?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Falcon3518]

Re Hopper or Taranto, when will people realise that buying players and trading away your future for B graders results in long term mediocrity only for a Gold Coast or Sydney to dominate you for the next few years let alone trying to overcome a Melbourne does not work?

Do you really think getting Hopper is going to dismantle Melbourne with our list at the moment? You have to absolutely kidding yourselves if you think we can win the flag next year trading for a B+ mid to think that makes our midfield anywhere remotely near our 2017 prime Cotchin, Prestia, Martin, Edwards midfield.

You’ll be surprised what adding 2 or 3 players would do to improve the team. Especially if they are at least B+ grade in your weakest area.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com