Redo the 1999 Draft

[Footy Smarts]

May as well keep with the theme with other drafts being reviewed. As a cats fan this one brings back fond memories. Looking back this is a pretty solid draft with a good depth of talent. Here goes:

1. Pavlich
2. Glass
3. Chapman
4. J Brown (only this low because he can't get on the park)
5. Enright
6. O'Keefe
7. McPharlin
8. Corey
9. Murphy
10. Ling
11. Green
12. Hille
13. R Shaw
14. Giansiracusa
15. Hasleby
16. Bruce
17. Hunter
18. Guerra
19. Davis
20. Bateman

Others: L brown, Hargrave, Blake, Hille, Gilbee, Ben Johnson, Fiora, Wheatley, Hahn, Whelan, Ryan Houlihan, Zantuck

 

[KissKiss]

This is a much more reasonable one to redo as you can see pretty much their entire careers. None of the potential stuff will come through. Its all about what they achieved.

Id like to see JB higher but I understand the reasoning you have put there. And I probably would have had Gilbee in the top 20 maybe if just for bateman

 

[bradrowe#32]

David Hille at 12? Josh Fraser had a far superior career than Hille.

 

[GrandBlue]

Sorry, but Gilbee would easily be in the top 20. All-Australian 2006, 200 Gamer, and easily one of the best field kicks over the last 10 years. Absolutely ahead of Hasleby, Hunter, Bruce, Rhyce Shaw, Davis and Bateman.

Brown is also a lock at pick 2. Chapman & Glass have only played a handful of games more than him.

David Hille at 12? Josh Fraser had a far superior career than Hille.

Hilarious post.

 

[Doss]

David Hille at 12? Josh Fraser had a far superior career than Hille.

In what way was Fraser far superior?

 

[mufassa]

David Hille at 12? Josh Fraser had a far superior career than Hille.

Hille made the AA squad a few years back - Fraser never had a year at that level. I could not think of one football ability that Fraser had that was better than Hille. Hille was no superstar but has Fraser covered - easily.

 

[Doss]

Hille made the AA squad a few years back - Fraser never had a year at that level. I could not think of one football ability that Fraser had that was better than Hille. Hille was no superstar but has Fraser covered - easily.

Nail on head.

Fraser was a victim of circumstances, no doubt- he was forced to be the number one ruck at far too young an age, because his arrival coincided with Monkhurst leaving and Steve McKee and Guy Richards were never much chop. He would have been ideal for a mostly forward role with a pinch-hitting role in the ruck, but he was never better than Hille in the role of main ruckman.

I distinctly remember feeling very sorry for Fraser in the 2003 GF- battled manfully but was completely slaughtered by Keating and Charman.

 

[recon]

Fraser wasn't near as good as Hille overhyped pussy!

 

[Doss]

Fraser wasn't near as good as Hille overhyped pussy!

I think pussy is a bit harsh- he just didn't have the build to be a ruckman. As I said, seeing him get rag-dolled repeatedly by behemoths like Keating was pretty horrible to watch.

 

[Ed D]

Nail on head.

Fraser was a victim of circumstances, no doubt- he was forced to be the number one ruck at far too young an age, because his arrival coincided with Monkhurst leaving and Steve McKee and Guy Richards were never much chop. He would have been ideal for a mostly forward role with a pinch-hitting role in the ruck, but he was never better than Hille in the role of main ruckman.

I distinctly remember feeling very sorry for Fraser in the 2003 GF- battled manfully but was completely slaughtered by Keating and Charman.

Pretty much it. He was never a #1 ruckman, but he got thrown in the deep end and his body paid the price. He was decent up forward, great below the knees for someone his size, played a good game on the wing, but above his head he wasn't up to it. I think he was better than what he's been given credit for in this thread, but due to being the #1 pick he didn't live up to expectations. He also played poorly towards the end of his career which people obviously remember too.

 

[captainrich]

surely browny would be pick number 1 he's had far greater impact on games than him, three premierships show, people will say pavlich has had more all australian selections but thats a beat up with browny out of sight in brisbane and out of mind far better player

 

[FlowersByIrene]

surely browny would be pick number 1 he's had far greater impact on games than him, three premierships show, people will say pavlich has had more all australian selections but thats a beat up with browny out of sight in brisbane and out of mind far better player

No, just no, no no no

Pavlic >>> Rest of Draft

 

[captainrich]

No, just no, no no no

Pavlic >>> Rest of Draft

yeah im sure pavlic is a great player

 

[Andronicus]

surely browny would be pick number 1 he's had far greater impact on games than him, three premierships show, people will say pavlich has had more all australian selections but thats a beat up with browny out of sight in brisbane and out of mind far better player

Yeah you are right. Hidden away in Brisbane, where Pav had the advantage of being at Freo, which we all know is right in the heart of football mad Melbourne.

Brown was brilliant and a true champion of the game. Doesn't change the fact that Pav is better than him.

 

[KissKiss]

I love Browny, but Pav is better. Pav at 1 Brown at 2

 

[sexyhunk]

surely browny would be pick number 1 he's had far greater impact on games than him, three premierships show, people will say pavlich has had more all australian selections but thats a beat up with browny out of sight in brisbane and out of mind far better player

if we go by that, paul chapman is number one.

 

[captainrich]

each to their own

 

[Dazb86]

Pretty amazing draft.

 

[Knightmare]

To weigh in on Fraser v Hille.

Worth noting Fraser has played 218 games to Hille's 193 games.
Fraser's 32 brownlow votes to Hille's 18.
Fraser's 3077 disposals to Hille's 2482.
Fraser's 1012 marks to Hille's 834.
Fraser's 168 goals to Hille's 152.
Fraser's 445 tackles to Hille's 271.

Hille won the hitout battle 2785 to Fraser's 2576 and was clearly the better physical force of the two and on many occasions took advantage of the matchup v Fraser really rising to the occasion more often than not when the two have played off.

Fraser was the clearly better player around the ground and played as that extra midfielder with really exceptional skills and endurance for his height.

Who had the better career? More even than non Collingwood fans are suggesting but given the stats Fraser was the better of the two playing more games and producing the better numbers over his career, though Hille clearly the stronger, more physical and better tap ruckman of the two with Fraser always more that extra midfield, skilled type ruckman.

Who was better value given where selected? Hille. No arguement. Fraser at pick 1 was clearly not the best player from his draft class and I don't think many would even argue that he was a top 10 player in this draft. Hille as a mid draft selection was an excellent selection by Essendon and the clearly the better value selection of the two.


Fraser I suggest if utilised differently by Collingwood might not have declined so badly toward the end, really struggling from 2010 (as a 28 year old). Had Fraser been played in the 2s and given that development time in the first couple of seasons to strengthen his body and really build that durability I suspect he could have played productive football longer and to a higher level than he did because at the time of the draft he was clearly the best player in his draft class with his play completely dominant in the u18s for his time and the issue was always that he physically struggled against the stronger ruckmen and got pushed around in the contests which shouldn't happen from a player who was so dominant as a junior.


On Brown I would also rate him behind Pavlich, with Pavlich the longer lasting of the two playing better footy for longer without the same injury issues.

Jonathan Brown's best though was clearly the best in this competition and for that reason I wouldn't let him slip past 2. Obviously he went F/S so it's not of great relevance where any of us would have picked him but his dominant years between 07-09 in particular he was clearly the dominant player of the competition and Wayne Carey-esque.

 

[Topper Harley]

1. Matthew Pavlich
2. Jonathan Brown
3. Corey Enright
4. Paul Chapman
5. Darren Glass
6. Joel Corey
7. Ryan O'Keefe
8. Cameron Ling
9. Luke McPharlin
10. Robert Murphy
11. Brad Green
12. Daniel Giansiracusa
13. Paul Haselby
14. Cameron Bruce
15. Lindsay Gilbee
16. Chance Bateman
17. Leon Davis
18. Josh Fraser
19. David Hille
20. Adam Hunter

Very deep and talented draft.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

1. Matthew Pavlich
2. Jonathan Brown
3. Corey Enright
4. Paul Chapman
5. Darren Glass
6. Joel Corey
7. Ryan O'Keefe
8. Cameron Ling
9. Luke McPharlin
10. Robert Murphy
11. Brad Green
12. Daniel Giansiracusa
13. Paul Haselby
14. Cameron Bruce
15. Lindsay Gilbee
16. Chance Bateman
17. Leon Davis
18. Josh Fraser
19. David Hille
20. Adam Hunter

Very deep and talented draft.

I would take Glass and McPharlin higher. Good talls are seriously hard to find.

 

[piesnz]

Malthouse developed some players very well but he also destroyed some...he ran Fraser into the ground (his treatment of Jason Cloke was another case). One wonders what kind of player he could have developed into had he been allowed time to develop.

 

[Topper Harley]

I would take Glass and McPharlin higher. Good talls are seriously hard to find.

They are, but I can't see how Glass is a better player then any of the 4 above him. Maybe McPharlin above Ling, but Lings leadership qualities put him just ahead, and he's not as good as Corey or O'Keefe.

 

[Schauermann]

surely browny would be pick number 1 he's had far greater impact on games than him, three premierships show, people will say pavlich has had more all australian selections but thats a beat up with browny out of sight in brisbane and out of mind far better player

One at 1 and one at 4 wouldn't care for the order ...

And perhaps O'Keefe at 5.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

surely browny would be pick number 1 he's had far greater impact on games than him, three premierships show, people will say pavlich has had more all australian selections but thats a beat up with browny out of sight in brisbane and out of mind far better player

Yeah because fremantle is the centre of football