Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[ElectricG]

An indigenous co-worker made an interesting observation to me today when we were discussing the Voice referendum - 'Yes voters are concerned about how the Voice will help people and what it will do for them, No voters are worried about how it will affect themselves and what it will or won't do for themselves'

Kinda a sh*t take on his part though; all he has described is how a certain type of yes voter sees themselves.

 

[PJays]

There are 5 basic options for the voice.

1. No voice.
2. Legislate a limited voice.
3. Legislate a broad reaching voice.
4. Constitutionally enshrine a limited voice.
5. Constitutionally enshrine a broad reaching voice.

They opted for 5.

Many yes supporters thought they should've opted for 4. Frank Brennan, Greg Craven, Julian Leeser and others.

They could've done 2 or 3 in 2022 and aimed for 4 or 5 in 2023 or 2024, potentially increasing likelihood of success by removing arguments about an untried voice and lack of detail.

Arguably if this fails, the fault will lie with those who pushed for an immediate 5.

 

[South of the Yarra]

There are 5 basic options for the voice.

1. No voice.
2. Legislate a limited voice.
3. Legislate a broad reaching voice.
4. Constitutionally enshrine a limited voice.
5. Constitutionally enshrine a broad reaching voice.

They opted for 5.

Many yes supporters thought they should've opted for 4. Frank Brennan, Greg Craven, Julian Leeser and others.

They could've done 2 or 3 in 2022 and aimed for 4 or 5 in 2023 or 2024, potentially increasing likelihood of success by removing arguments about an untried voice and lack of detail.

Arguably if this fails, the fault will lie with those who pushed for an immediate 5.

And there we have 200 years of failure in one post and the reason we need a voice. Sums it up when the views of elite non Aboriginal people hold greater value than Aboriginal people when dealing with their own matters.

 

[Power Raid]

The Albanese gov has committed in full to the Uluru Statement From the Heart.

Voice, treaty, truth.

We can say with near certainty if the Voice passes, treaty will be proposed shortly thereafter. (It could theoretically get proposed anyway even if Voice fails. My point here is just that if Yes succeeds, treaty will definitely be floated).

If you like the idea of treaty this might not bother you.

Point is, it's a package deal.


Recognition is a small and peripheral part of The Voice proposal under consideration.

Many from both sides support the concept of recognition in the preamble. But that is not the fundamental question being debated in this referendum. A constitutionally enshrined voice is in a different universe to recognition.

Pretending this is primarily about recognition (by constantly referring to recognition and implying the Voice is necessary for it) is a deliberate strategy being employed by Yes campaign but it's highly misleading.

In theory preamble recognition could be added to any referendum (like it was in 1999 but failed).

The Voice is not mere recognition. It's much more.

Treaties in Australia have already begun

Thus it can't be true that this is a package deal.........if they have begun ahead of the voice

 

[Power Raid]

Not much more. A recognition of a lobby group that’s all. No actual powers.
And I don’t have an issue with treaty though I expect I would vote no to anything with substantial personal cost (though I also note that my threshold- Medicare levy level- is apparently more than what treaty has cost in other countries..)

the settlement to the Noongars was $1.3B WA Premier signs $1.3 billion Noongar native title deal

for me it should not come down to cost, as there was property damage and thus we must settle no matter the cost

If we were to extrapolate this out across the nation, we might be looking at $50B-100B. Add to this the annual native title revenues, we are starting to form a decent asset base for indigenous peoples..........the challenge though is to release this from native title groups, to the actual people. This "holding" of wealth is no different to the cruelty of taking indigenous wages and giving it to the "board" (what was done up until the 60s or 70s)

 

[Romeoh1]

An indigenous co-worker made an interesting observation to me today when we were discussing the Voice referendum - 'Yes voters are concerned about how the Voice will help people and what it will do for them, No voters are worried about how it will affect themselves and what it will or won't do for themselves'

Sounds exactly right.

 

[schneebly111]

As everyone predicted the rhetoric is now just becoming blatantly racist. And there’s still months to go. No surprise who has delivered the most racist rant so far, I just wonder who let him escape from the Dementia ward?:

Sam Newman's disgusting rant about Aboriginal people exposed

The former Geelong icon unleashed his outrageous comments on his weekly show with co-host and former Hawthorn hero Don Scott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When even the Daily Fail calls it ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ you know he’s crossed the line.

 

[South of the Yarra]

As everyone predicted the rhetoric is now just becoming blatantly racist. And there’s still months to go. No surprise who has delivered the most racist rant so far, I just wonder who let him escape from the Dementia ward?:

Sam Newman's disgusting rant about Aboriginal people exposed

The former Geelong icon unleashed his outrageous comments on his weekly show with co-host and former Hawthorn hero Don Scott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When even the Daily Fail calls it ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ you know he’s crossed the line.

He always has been and always will be a racist pig

 

[Roby]

As everyone predicted the rhetoric is now just becoming blatantly racist. And there’s still months to go. No surprise who has delivered the most racist rant so far, I just wonder who let him escape from the Dementia ward?:

Sam Newman's disgusting rant about Aboriginal people exposed

The former Geelong icon unleashed his outrageous comments on his weekly show with co-host and former Hawthorn hero Don Scott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When even the Daily Fail calls it ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ you know he’s crossed the line.

This it's the same person says he has the highest respect for Polly. Their true colours eventually come out.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Newman is a disgrace

 

[Gough]

As everyone predicted the rhetoric is now just becoming blatantly racist. And there’s still months to go. No surprise who has delivered the most racist rant so far, I just wonder who let him escape from the Dementia ward?:

Sam Newman's disgusting rant about Aboriginal people exposed

The former Geelong icon unleashed his outrageous comments on his weekly show with co-host and former Hawthorn hero Don Scott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When even the Daily Fail calls it ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ you know he’s crossed the line.

How long was the Footy Show main stream Australian entertainment for?

 

[Bombermania]

As everyone predicted the rhetoric is now just becoming blatantly racist. And there’s still months to go. No surprise who has delivered the most racist rant so far, I just wonder who let him escape from the Dementia ward?:

Sam Newman's disgusting rant about Aboriginal people exposed

The former Geelong icon unleashed his outrageous comments on his weekly show with co-host and former Hawthorn hero Don Scott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When even the Daily Fail calls it ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ you know he’s crossed the line.

Sam says Polly was his role model and the laugh is on people like Sam because parts of Europe were as recently as a 1000 years ago living in nomadic societies that were not dissimilar to Aboriginal communities in the same time period.

 

[killtaker1993]

Would you expect anything less from Newman? I wouldn't. I hope all people intending to vote No for supposedly non-bigoted reasons have a listen to this clown's rant and think 'geez, do I really want to vote the same way as this guy?'

 

[schneebly111]

Sam says Polly was his role model

Sam liked Polly Farmer because Polly didn’t stand up against the torrent of racial abuse when he was playing. Polly was “one of the good ones”. Kept his mouth shut, didn’t cause a scene, did as he was told.

When an indigenous player finally took a stand and decided they were sick of racial abuse (Nicky Winmar) Newman mocked him in black face.

Waleed Aly said it about Goodes:

“It’s about the fact that Australia is generally a very tolerant society until its minorities demonstrate that they don’t know their place. And at that moment, the minute someone in a minority position acts as though they’re not a mere supplicant, then we lose our minds. And we say, ‘No, no, you’ve got to get back in your box here’.

 

[schneebly111]

Would you expect anything less from Newman? I wouldn't. I hope all people intending to vote No for supposedly non-bigoted reasons have a listen to this clown's rant and think 'geez, do I really want to vote the same way as this guy?'

Unfortunately if you surround yourself with a subset of the population that is more white, older, uneducated and rural (but not all of course) what Newman said is par of the course. In fact it’s tamer as he didn’t use any racial slurs. Imagine a similar rant involving swearing and racial slurs.

 

[schneebly111]

How long was the Footy Show main stream Australian entertainment for?

The Footy Show’s ratings tanked after Newman left. Like it or not a lot of viewers sympathised with his views. They still vote.

 

[ElectricG]

Would you expect anything less from Newman? I wouldn't. I hope all people intending to vote No for supposedly non-bigoted reasons have a listen to this clown's rant and think 'geez, do I really want to vote the same way as this guy?'

I think they will probably just vote based on their own reasons

 

[Gough]

The Footy Show’s ratings tanked after Newman left. Like it or not a lot of viewers sympathised with his views. They still vote.

Racism and homophobia formed the goal to goal line of a lot of Footy Show humour for over a decade and sadly mainstream Australia lapped it up.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I had the pleasure of telling Newman to his face that he was a racist.

 

[Festerz]

When even the Daily Fail calls it ‘disgusting’ and ‘vile’ you know he’s crossed the line.

The Daily Mail is part of the problem of course. And they are just doing what they always do - cut and paste other peoples stories and links that they think will give them the most clicks. The online equivalent of a drug courier. It's the standard outrage click-bait revenue model. Same goes with the Newman podcast.

Linking to their stories and websites is exactly what they want. And gives the irrelevant asshats like Newman the publicity they so desperately seek.

Want to cut this out? - take a screen shot of their articles or summarise them with your own words. Or just ignore them entirely. FFS don't link to the basterds.

 

[Power Raid]

I had the pleasure of telling Newman to his face that he was a racist.

what I don't understand about Sam's rant is he doesn't want teaching at school and then asks "what history do aboriginals have". Perhaps education might have been a great tool when he was a youth.

I feel he is offended about a "acknowledgement of country" or a quasi "welcome to country", some diminished value of 1770 or something, or perhaps he feels "why should I have to be welcomed to a country, "I've" been on longer than most other people.

Who knows exactly what his rant was about but he might have been better off saying "I feel all people should be treated with respect, no matter their race" and "I feel we should respect Australia's history (all 60k years of it), both the good and the bad". Assuming that is what he meant........but perhaps didn't mean that at all and we saw exactly who he is.

 

[Roby]

what I don't understand about Sam's rant is he doesn't want teaching at school and then asks "what history do aboriginals have". Perhaps education might have been a great tool when he was a youth.

I feel he is offended about a "acknowledgement of country" or a quasi "welcome to country", some diminished value of 1770 or something, or perhaps he feels "why should I have to be welcomed to a country, "I've" been on longer than most other people.

Who knows exactly what his rant was about but he might have been better off saying "I feel all people should be treated with respect, no matter their race" and "I feel we should respect Australia's history (all 60k years of it), both the good and the bad". Assuming that is what he meant........but perhaps didn't mean that at all and we saw exactly who he is.

Sam's is the Dunning-Kruger-in-full-effect.

 

[FredLeDeux]

what I don't understand about Sam's rant is he doesn't want teaching at school and then asks "what history do aboriginals have". Perhaps education might have been a great tool when he was a youth.

I feel he is offended about a "acknowledgement of country" or a quasi "welcome to country", some diminished value of 1770 or something, or perhaps he feels "why should I have to be welcomed to a country, "I've" been on longer than most other people.

Who knows exactly what his rant was about but he might have been better off saying "I feel all people should be treated with respect, no matter their race" and "I feel we should respect Australia's history (all 60k years of it), both the good and the bad". Assuming that is what he meant........but perhaps didn't mean that at all and we saw exactly who he is.

Geelong Grammar
Same school as Rupert Murdoch

 

[Festerz]

Geelong Grammar
Same school as Rupert Murdoch

And British King Charlie. Arrogant prats all three of them.

 

[kalex6251]

former attention seeking media t@rt (and geelong ruckman - who cares really) proving once again how much of a pathetic victim he is