Discussion Retooling for next year

[SaintsSeptember]

Look at the Doggies: No key forwards, marking presence...they just move the ball quicker through the midfield.

The Cats are the same: multiple goals through - Stevie J, Chappy, Stokes, Varcoe, Bartel, Ablett etc - all of them are shrimps.

It all comes back to the speed of the ball moving through the midfield into the forward line.

We have the best athlete (equal with Buddy) playing the game, who is unstoppable on his day. We just gotta give him better opportunities.

If the mids (RUNNERS is probably a better term for them!) don't want to bust their gut running both ways, then we will never bridge the gap to Geelong/Hawthorn

I agree, the dogs use the same sorts of players in their forward line as in their midfield. They have the defensive pressure we lack.
At the moment every mark that Reiwoldt or Kosi drop is a turnover to the opposition and we cannot stop them running off with it. Neither Nick nor Kosi are effective at getting it once it hits the ground.

 

[dg102]

Dont expect big trade changes for us. It would be going way against Ross Lyons Style. I think its completely wrong not to look at all possible trade options, including Dal Santo, Kosi. But unfortunately I'm not the coach. For example, Rod Eade delisting West, and Laidley delisting Thompson and even Knights stating he's gonna make big list changes. Big decisions. But it shows that coaches are willing to change around the lists, in order to stick with the future plans of the club. Thats where Ross Lyon falls short. He's all talk and no action.
Before he came to the club, I thought he was going to be that hard core coach that doesnt put up with crap from the players. Instead he turned out to be just like GT, in the sense that he's too chummy with the players, and doesnt make big selection decisions, and will not make any big trades this year either.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Dont expect big trade changes for us. It would be going way against Ross Lyons Style. I think its completely wrong not to look at all possible trade options, including Dal Santo, Kosi. But unfortunately I'm not the coach. For example, Rod Eade delisting West, and Laidley delisting Thompson and even Knights stating he's gonna make big list changes. Big decisions. But it shows that coaches are willing to change around the lists, in order to stick with the future plans of the club. Thats where Ross Lyon falls short. He's all talk and no action.
Before he came to the club, I thought he was going to be that hard core coach that doesnt put up with crap from the players. Instead he turned out to be just like GT, in the sense that he's too chummy with the players, and doesnt make big selection decisions, and will not make any big trades this year either.

What a load of crap. I thinking dropping Dal Santo and Milne constitutes "big selection decisions".

 

[The Punter]

I think he's being shrewd. Essendon and the Doggies are looking at big changes, which means players will find themselves on the outer, and they may be available on the cheap.

What I really want to see is value in any trade we make. That is why I don't think we should trade Kosi - we won't get any value for him. Big blokes are rare and take time - ask Rodney Eade.

Dal Santo is a different story, and I would love Daniel Kerr at the club. But Dal Santo & pick 13 for Kerr is way too steep, and as soon as West Coast stated their price, I knew he wasn't going anywhere. They were pricing Kerr out of the market, which they can do, because he is under contract.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think he's being shrewd. Essendon and the Doggies are looking at big changes, which means players will find themselves on the outer, and they may be available on the cheap.

What I really want to see is value in any trade we make. That is why I don't think we should trade Kosi - we won't get any value for him. Big blokes are rare and take time - ask Rodney Eade.

Dal Santo is a different story, and I would love Daniel Kerr at the club. But Dal Santo & pick 13 for Kerr is way too steep, and as soon as West Coast stated their price, I knew he wasn't going anywhere. They were pricing Kerr out of the market, which they can do, because he is under contract.

Daniel Kerr is Daniel Kerr but any draft pick has potential for much more. And a lower draft pick has more potential. That is why in general I am against trading draft picks unless there is a very clear void in the team that needs to be filled.

 

[The Punter]

It also has the potential to be Luke Livingston. I'd take the sure thing, myself.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

It also has the potential to be Luke Livingston. I'd take the sure thing, myself.

Lovett?

 

[CHBench]

Am just watching the replay of the GF and Hawthorn absolutley rattled the cats when the game was there to be won. Their list is made up of hard nuts, players that would fly the flag, rattle the opposition on their attack of the ball. They were diving on it left right and centre contiually first to the ball. Respect.
We have the tools around us. We are equipped with a talented list. It's just if they realise that talent is the difference between winning the GF or losing at the preliminary final.

BackLine:

Max Hudghton - Star full back, probably on par with Scarlett
Sam Fisher - Has taken the role of looking after the 2nd Forward and excelled.
Matt Maguire - Was the comp's best CHB before he broke his leg. If he can get back to full fitness he could be that extra quality backman we've been looking for. May not be as good as he was but more than confident he can handle the oppositions 3rd tall.
Steven Baker - Chris Judd said he was the hardest tag to shake. Continually shutting down players week in week out. Copped a rediculous suspension plus an inocuous injury. Fair to say he hardly played a game of footy this year. If he can get back he would satisfy the void he left.
Sean Dempster - Can play on talls or smalls but a knee injury ended his 2009 season. Has been invaluable while Maguire and Baker have been out.

I think our backline is sorted out. Obviously when Maxy retires it will leave a huge hole but Gilbert is developing and Fisher has shown he can stand up do the job.

ForwardLine:

Nick Riewoldt - Star CHF that has been the pulse of St.Kilda revivals. When we are on top in the midfield there is no stopping him.
Stephen Milne - Kicked 54 goals for the year. Outstanding for a small forward. Critisized for going missing in games where we need him to stand up. Unfairly imo.(most of the time when we need him to stand up we are playing a better team, therefore better midfield. when our midfield is getting beaten the rest of the team, more notably the forward line look like dog vomit) Can break a game open in the space of minutes.
Adam Schneider - Didn't have the best of years but still managed to kick 25 goals. Can play as a crumber but i think he is better suited as a small leading forward. During our purple patch he was continually marking up around the 50 and delivering it to the big forwards. Can also break a game open, evident in the '05 prelim.

Huge holes here. We need a key forward desperatley. Kosi is not the answer nor is Jarryd Allen (who managed only 20 goals at casey). We need to pick up a star forward with either of our 1st or 2nd pick. Or scout the SANFL/WAFL/VFL for a ready made solution. We could do with a medium lead up forward in the mould of Mark Williams as well.

MidField:

Lenny Hayes - Absolute gun. Gets the hard ball, can cope with a tag, beautiful skills, gets possesions. Perfect centre square player.
Luke Ball - Tough as nails. Doesn't care about his body, he'll just throw it at everything. Opposition do not realise how valuable he is. Unfortunatley is caught up in the Hodge vs Judd vs Ball with all observers oblivious to his worth.
Brendon Goddard - Move him to the midfiel. Pronto! Best kick in the league, tough nut and can kick a goal.
Nick Dal Santo - Has the tools to be a superstar if he worked harder. Contiually tagged but doesn't work enough to shake it. Sublime skills, can make everything around look like they're moving in slowmo. Lift your game, you'll be a star.
Jason Gram - Another that needs to move to the midfield. Has pace, booming kick and is a goal kicker. He's one of those players that opposition tend to not worry about (such as Michael Osbourne). But can really hurt you. If he can improve his skills he could become invaluable.
Stephen King - Absolute gift from Geelong. May not have a place down at sleepy hollow but he does here. (Actually he would've had more impact yesterday than that squib Blake) Had an outstanding year, just the ruckman we've been looking for.

Obvious deficiancy is speed. Line breaking speed. All of those players barr Gram are one paced and slow. If we could recruit a player with intense speed (Zaharakis, Jetta, Yarran) that would be a great move. 2 players with blistering speed would pretty much top off our midfield.

Others:

Jason Blake - Invaluable utility. Can play forward, back, ruck, tagging. I think he's found his calling in the backline. Has stepped up when we needed an extra man in the backline, am confident he will continue to improve.

Raphael Clarke - Has improved 10 fold in the past 6 weeks. He looks to be shaking off those injuries and the bad form that plagued him early in his career. Good signs ahead.

Sam Gilbert - After a solid 2007 hope set in that we had found our Maxy Mk II. 2008 was a different story, started off injured and didn't come back until half way through the season. Hasn't shown the improvement he did 07 but he's a solid contributor and can shut down a player when matched up on the right guy.

Clinton Jones - I think we have found a gem here. Speed, tackles, tough as nails but that disposal is shocking. Improve it and he could be another under the radar player that could get under the guard of the opposition.

David Armitage - 50% game time. 8 tackles! No doubting next year he'll be in the side a lot with a lot more game time. Tough as nails will throw everything he's got at the pill. I'm confident here.

Justin Koschitzke - Not a forward, not a backman, is he a ruck? I'd play him in the ruck permanently, this way he can get into the game and have some influence. A full off season practicing rucking he could become our 2nd in line. Has shown he can take a game by the scruff of the neck. But consistency is the issue. Up forward without much influence he gets agitated very easy and cracks it. Being very imobile his defender can easily run off him and have a big influence. Ruck him!

We need to have a very solid recruiting period. Our past couple of years have been woeful. Now's the time to really bite the bullet. Our core aren't getting any younger and we have very little players coming through. Have a another bad draft period and its bye bye in a couple of years time.

Here' what i think needs doing. We badly need another 1st or 2nd round pick. Badly. I feel we are lacking quality mids with speed and a Key forward.

In the first 2 rounds there are about 4-5 quality KP forwards. We desperatley need one of them. Tom Lynch, Paul Cahill, Mitch Brown. 1 of them will definaltey still be around.

With the mids there are 2 players that i have my sights on that could make the transition to AFL quite easily. They are both 19 years of age and have the right body size.

Mitch Robinson, tall, quality, ball winning mid with speed.
David Zaharakis, ball winning mid with very nice speed, solid body and a beautiful kick.

Next year we need our kids to come on (Armitage, McEvoy, Steven, Howard) or it's going to be a grim couple years to follow.

 

[wheels4]

Reply to CHBench

Good review

Our other quick mid i would say is Montagna, he has explosive pace but is to inconsistent

And about the medium lead-up type i think Lyon knows we need one, drafting Charlie Gardiner and Schneider although schneids is abit smaller.

If Howard comes along he could slot in there as that, Gwilta is alright in that position aswell.

Well Done

 

[super sainter]

CHBench,

ur review was good but i think st kildas biggest problem was at the selection table. we were picking king in the ruck, blake in defence, and kosi up foward and only smaller players on the bench.

most clubs pick two ruckmen, kosi needs to be told to stay at full foward and only ruck in the foward line. blake is not a ruckmen and should just play at backmen/utility. which means that we needa play 'big mac' or gardi in order to give kingy a rest. i reckon we should play big mac and allow in time to develop before king retires and we have no one.

as for the lack of pace, ross lyon tried to address that by rolling goddard and gram through the midfield, and with the likes of dempster, maguire and baker in the backline he can do that alot more. i reckon our first pick should be midfielder with geuiine pace and then second look at a key positon player like rougheads younger brother. also recruiting soemone like andrew lovett will give us pace across the wing, good deliver and the ability to kick goals.

james gwilt is the key to st kildas success in 5 years time as he is set to replace maxy hughton as our fullback!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

CHBench,

ur review was good but i think st kildas biggest problem was at the selection table. we were picking king in the ruck, blake in defence, and kosi up foward and only smaller players on the bench.

most clubs pick two ruckmen, kosi needs to be told to stay at full foward and only ruck in the foward line. blake is not a ruckmen and should just play at backmen/utility. which means that we needa play 'big mac' or gardi in order to give kingy a rest. i reckon we should play big mac and allow in time to develop before king retires and we have no one.

as for the lack of pace, ross lyon tried to address that by rolling goddard and gram through the midfield, and with the likes of dempster, maguire and baker in the backline he can do that alot more. i reckon our first pick should be midfielder with geuiine pace and then second look at a key positon player like rougheads younger brother. also recruiting soemone like andrew lovett will give us pace across the wing, good deliver and the ability to kick goals.

james gwilt is the key to st kildas success in 5 years time as he is set to replace maxy hughton as our fullback![/quote]

Many would think that it is better to replace Max with someone who is good at it. It has been recognised both by many bigfooty members and more recently by the team selectors that Gwilt is not good in the back.

Putting someone at full back because they are big and you need someone, is schoolyard football.

 

[Signd Sealed Saint]

James Gwilt won't be at St Kilda in 5 years time mate, he's another one of the list cloggers/hacks down at St Kilda. Get rid of him. We need a KPB more so than another midfielder, we have Steven and Armitage coming through. BJ and Gram have a bit of pace about them and they've just about finished their half back apprenticeships, i'd like to see more midfiled time for them with Baker, Dempster and Goose coming back. So the backline should look something like this....

FB: Sam Gilbert Max Hudgeton Sean Dempster
HB: Matt Maguire Sam Fisher Raph Clarke

Couldn't fit Bakes in there, i guess he could start on the pine