Robbie Muir- A must-read article

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marty36 said:
When i played against him no one said anything to him he was just out for blood

What would you think of a peson who was indigenous or not indigenous doing that?

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He was suspended for 9 years across his playing career yet feels like the nickname "Mad Dog" is unfair.

He's probably the most frequently suspended player to ever play the game in any league in the country.

Complains about discrimination, no-one wanting to employee him, but was allowed to play for three decades despite a propensity to dole out extreme violence on and off the field.

Discrimination would be having a clean record yet being not allowed to play.

He had an appalling record yet was allowed to play for three decades.
 
marty36 said:
When i played against him no one said anything to him he was just out for blood

What would you think of a peson who was indigenous or not indigenous doing that?

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I’d think they’re an angry person.

then if I heard some racist bs, or saw cans thrown over a fence I’d put two and two together

fascinating that even with the benefit of hindsight and a well written article some people are still not capable of doing that
 
Slartibartfast said:
Its funny how the bigoted posters try to turn the discussion, this is about what racism Muir endured.
Would not expect anything else from you Marty, pathetic post...again.
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Not trying to turn anything he played for port noarlunga i was 17 and played against him

You weren't there dont call me names it's offensuve

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cartwright said:
I’d think they’re an angry person.

then if I heard some racist bs, or saw cans thrown over a fence I’d put two and two together

fascinating that even with the benefit of hindsight and a well written article some people are still not capable of doing that
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Yes but it definetly didnt happen when I played him it was a rather normal game except for some madman trying to take 17 year olds heads office

He wasn't abused at all but he was intoxicated

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David Bondo said:
From that archived 2004 Robbie Muir article:

"He was suspended, he believes, a total of 194 games over almost three decades of Australian Rules Football."

He played for three decades, only 68 games in the VFL, there's a video of him on youtube somersaulting over a fence trying to jump it, yet the AFL is supposed to be responsible for funding his shoulder surgery? I feel like I have to stick up for the AFL a little here. People are slandering the AFL, slandering the Footy Show when there are so many inconsistencies in these stories.

Are all 194 games he was suspended for attributable to the racist taunts he endured? Also, he must have enjoyed being out on the ground if he played for three decades.

These aren't isolated incidents where he has lashed out in frustration but almost a systematic, deliberate trail of violence across three decades followed by off-field assaults long after quitting football. How many busted jaws, how many CTE victims have there been?

If anything, if his name wasn't Robbie Muir he would have been thrown out of these amateur leagues long before he retired. He effectively was suspended for 9 years in his career. I'm appalled by the leniency that was shown to someone that spent 9 years of his playing career suspended.

" But Muir's volatile behaviour isn't confined to the field or his playing days. He has convictions for assaulting police, being drunk in public and indecent language. He talks openly about turning up at one hotel with an axe handle and, on another occasion, snotting a spectator at the footy. "

Muir would have been in his 50's and out of the VFL for 20 years when these offences occurred. None of this is justifiable.
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You're failing to grasp the concept that events that occur in a person's formative years, including domestic violence, racism etc can impact on their behaviour long after said events have taken place. It doesn't absolve them from their actions necessarily, but it can explain them.

Look at your own upbringing for example. There has obviously been a culmination of events in your own life that have left you a remorseless stooge.
 
Slartibartfast said:
No, your question is irrelevant.
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It's absolutely relevant to the quote from the article that I posted, which you responded to.
"He is resigned to a story of squandered human potential and unhopeful that anyone will be held accountable for his abuse."
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Who in your opinion is most responsible for Robbie Muir's hardship?

 
Royce Hafey said:
Just a few observations on all of this. I'm indigenous, but I have a white skin and a middle class accent and haven't had to endure any of the crap that someone like Robbie has. My Mum grew up in Taree in the 1940s where the Aboriginal population was segregated like in the Deep South. My Grandfather was the third generation of his family to "pass as white" and, if hadn't would have been the first Aboriginal man to get a uni degree. But, of course, if his grandmother in Tasmania hadn't made the decision to hide their Palawa origins he'd probably never been able to get that degree. He'd certainly never have been employed to teach maths at Taree High in the '30s and '40s.

I know a man who as a teenager in the late '60s on the north coast of NSW was called in to the principal's office in Year 11. He was (and anyone who knows him would have to agree) a smart kid and one of the best students in the school. He also had (unlike Muir) a good family background and was well behaved. The principal told him: "we don't want the likes of you at this school" and that was it for his chances of education. Denied that, he traveled like lots of Aboriginal young men at the time to Sydney and got a job as an apprentice.

He was a good looking young man and, one Saturday night, the cops who believed (incorrectly as it turns out, not that that matters) that he'd been going out with white girls brought him in to the cells. They didn't arrest him; they just gave him a bashing. He could have reacted in a number of ways, but given his family background and intellectual proclivities not to mention the vibe of the times) he became a political activist of some note. He's now Dr Gary Foley and that racist headmaster is probably rolling in his grave.

The point of all this is that there are a number of possible reactions to enduring racist abuse. A rare, and very hard one, is the path trod by Doug Nichols and Polly Farmer, to turn the other cheek, continue to behave as a model citizen, and hope that eventually you'll be rewarded.

Another one is to fight back with pride and dignity, like Nicky Winmar.

Another is to lash out, to jump the fence when abused rather than pull up your jumper. Muir's dad was violent, he worked as a slaughterman, he played footy in an era when players with none of his excuses used violence as a regular tool in their footy armoury. We can all speculate as to what extent his reaction to how he was treated was the best way for him to react. If someone had given him the autobiography of Malcolm X to read (like a friend did with the teenage Foley in Redfern in 1969) and he was of a more intellectual bent, he may have reacted in a more constructive way.

But none of that happened, and, like so many Aboriginal people, he was driven down a more self-destructive path. But his "choices" are irrelevant. Judging individuals and the choices they make is of little use when you're dealing with institutionalised oppression so intense that few individuals would be up to coping with it. The point is not to judge the victims for not being saints. We can't turn everyone into a saint. But we can do something about racism.
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This is why i like Big footy
Amidst the dross, occasionally you get nuggets such as this.

Thanks for sharing Royce your family history and experiences.
 
Corkintheocean said:
You're failing to grasp the concept that events that occur in a person's formative years, including domestic violence, racism etc can impact on their behaviour long after said events have taken place. It doesn't absolve them from their actions necessarily, but it can explain them.

Look at your own upbringing for example. There has obviously been a culmination of events in your own life that have left you a remorseless stooge.
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More so, it's more about what indigenous players endured during that time. The passive acceptance by all of us and the acknowledgment that we could have done more.
You could substitute any of a dozen names for "muir"
 

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wagstaff said:
This is the Ray Shaw incident refereed to in the article. It's obvious that Shaw initiates it after Muir has been free-kicked for holding the ball although it's not clear what he does; looks like he said something to antagonise Muir (who has his back turned to him) more than spitting but can't say definitively:
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At least one Shaw is on record saying race baiting on the field was something he did.
 
Ron The Bear said:
It's absolutely relevant to the quote from the article that I posted, which you responded to.


Who in your opinion is most responsible for Robbie Muir's hardship?

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I will answer this question. People like you are responsible for Robbie Muir's hardship. You will only see the symptoms of the problem and never see the problem, and therefore the problem will always be there. And the problem is the way he and countless other indigenous people were treated and abandoned in the past. And frankly the problem is still being ignored. Its much more to the forefront now but I can't see many solutions being implemented and thats the saddest thing of all
 
Ron The Bear said:
Didn't read past that. Pig's arse you campaigner.
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maybe you should. i will post again

You will only see the symptoms of the problem and never see the problem, and therefore the problem will always be there. And the problem is the way he and countless other indigenous people were treated and abandoned in the past. And frankly the problem is still being ignored. Its much more to the forefront now but I can't see many solutions being implemented and thats the saddest thing of all
 
HeathComeBack said:
I will answer this question. People like you are responsible for Robbie Muir's hardship. You will only see the symptoms of the problem and never see the problem, and therefore the problem will always be there. And the problem is the way he and countless other indigenous people were treated and abandoned in the past. And frankly the problem is still being ignored. Its much more to the forefront now but I can't see many solutions being implemented and thats the saddest thing of all
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Who abandoned Robbie Muir? He has 42 siblings, where are they? Why isn't he being invited to indigenous functions?
 
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