Rookie Draft.

[Crow-mosone]

Apparently Jimmy felt the need to do it, which would suggest they probably were disappointed at missing out. If they thought he wasn't up to it, fair enough, but an in between height? Spare me, they would've known what height he was before he was invited out to training.

did he? what a strange way of interpreting answering a question.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Sheesh - all draftees are nothing but lottery tickets - but they're the only lottery tickets that you can utilise to refresh your list.

no, they're not all the same. their odds decrease dramatically as you slide down the scale. the rookie lists are the readers digest "you may have already won..."

Look, I'm not saying that our future as a football club is ruined because Grima is going to Geelong. But I think you should take late picks as seriously as you do early picks, because we don't get many opportunities in the scheme of things. It's not like we're the Yankees, and we can buy in the talent once it starts to show itself.

who says we don't. but it is bit over the top to suggest that grima is some sort of loss at this stage, and if we took these picks more seriously we'd have drafted him. he's just another long shot hopeful.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Yeah, lets get rid of Welsh.

who was a first round pick. a little different to someone?

But to think that every position has a definitive height that can play it is untrue - for every shoot first point guard that fails (Stephon, Terry) there are success stories (Arenas, AI). Just saying.

what an odd choice of 4 players, 3 of them have max contracts and the other is having a career year!

 

[bigman]

I am reasonably happy about our performance in the draft.

We have done well to get Sugars and Sam "Billy" Elliot.

Sugars can play. Saw him at the Carnival and liked the way he moved. He is a true forward and will complement the other players present if he gets his chance during the year or if he is upgraded the following year. He can actually find space and run into it - he runs to the right places. The better the team is I am sure the better he will play.

Billy Elliot can play too. In the game against Vic Country he moved the ball out of centre particularly well. He is another midfielder. You can never have anough of these types of players. I think we have done very well in this area in the draft. Where is Drummond - at least he will be happy about one of our picks.

Redden could be OK, (good physical characterisitcs) but he will need to do more than on the occasions I saw him play.

Donnadio - his bio does not read that well but I thought the same about Hudson. Lets hope he has a huge upside in him and that he gets a better barber when he comes over to our part of the world.

I think from what Jimmy said in the paper we were very disappointed to miss out on some of the guys training with us -Riescbeth, Mc Entee, Bode, Lower and Grima.

 

[GoSarge]

I think from what Jimmy said in the paper we were very disappointed to miss out on some of the guys training with us -Riescbeth, Mc Entee, Bode, Lower and Grima.

Well perhaps we should have delisted another player ? M Bode ? Massie ?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Jimmy made the comment before the PSD when he was asked why he thought Grima was overlooked in the draft. Had nothing to do with justifying the selection of Porplyzia

Fair enough, I took the comment to have been made after yesterday's drafts. It's still a strange reason, especially when you consider Adelaide then drafted a 187cm medium forward - that's more a tweener to me.

PS How tall is Ben Rutten?

 

[jo172]

PS How tall is Ben Rutten?

190 cm! (one of the reasons why he wasn't persisted with as a key forward)

 

[GoSarge]

Fair enough, I took the comment to have been made after yesterday's drafts. It's still a strange reason, especially when you consider Adelaide then drafted a 187cm medium forward - that's more a tweener to me.

PS How tall is Ben Rutten?

Yep, I'm not too happy about drafting a 187cm forward, I was more keen on the true KPP type players or mid fielders.

Having said all that, it is the rookie draft after all, so in the end, I guess it isn't too much of an issue.

I think Rutten is about 192 cm.

 

[jo172]

Yep, I'm not too happy about drafting a 187cm forward, I was more keen on the true KPP type players or mid fielders.

Modra was only 188 cm ...

 

[NikkiNoo]

Modra was only 188 cm ...

try telling that to Mick Martyn - there was that small issue of modra's vertical leap

 

[jo172]

try telling that to Mick Martyn - there was that small issue of modra's vertical leap

My point was you can't go writing people off by their height ...

 

[NikkiNoo]

I know Jo, just a bit of fun on a wednesday morning

 

[RooDog]

try telling that to Mick Martyn - there was that small issue of modra's vertical leap

Sugars has a very similair type of leap, in 04 in the wet i saw him and Danny Meyer take probably 4-5 hangers that were probably the best 4-5 marks i saw all that season.

In relation to my comment on DC results being over valued i didnt necessarily mean by recruiters i mean by people on here that go around posting that just because a player did this that and the other at DC that they are a better prospect than someone who didnt... People talked up Rischbeith after not having seen him play but purely on his DC results, as someone else said the same happened with Pearce last year.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Sugars has a very similair type of leap, in 04 in the wet i saw him and Danny Meyer take probably 4-5 hangers that were probably the best 4-5 marks i saw all that season.
.

So Roo does Sugars IYO have the goods to make it in the AFL ?

Why wasn't he drafted?

What does he have to work on to make it?

 

[Crow-mosone]

Fair enough, I took the comment to have been made after yesterday's drafts. It's still a strange reason, especially when you consider Adelaide then drafted a 187cm medium forward - that's more a tweener to me.

what are you talking about?

surely it's about type of forward? there is a size for each type of forward.

187 is fine for a 3rd marking forward in the pocket or an a flank, but too small for a key possie. which no one suggested he was?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

187cm is fine with me - Tony Hall, Rod Jameson ring bells all 3rd talls all same height thereabouts

 

[RooDog]

So Roo does Sugars IYO have the goods to make it in the AFL ?

Why wasn't he drafted?

What does he have to work on to make it?

He is borderline, has now been overlooked in two NDs, could make it as a 3rd tall i believe, has fantastic skills. He is fit and could possibly make it into a midfield role, doesnt mind putting his body on the line either. Questions are always going to be his height and possibly his pace as well, whilst being very good at endurance running hes not overly quick over a short distance(same as rischbeith). Tends to drop in and out of games too, needs to work on consistency as well.. he could be okay though i think.... he is worth a rookie spot for sure.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

what are you talking about?

surely it's about type of forward? there is a size for each type of forward.

187 is fine for a 3rd marking forward in the pocket or an a flank, but too small for a key possie. which no one suggested he was?

I didn't say anyone claimed Sugars was a KPP. My point was 187cm was just as much a tweener as 191cm. Probably moreso as an athletic 191cm (BTW Grima measured 192cm at the DC) player can hold down a KP.

 

[Crow-mosone]

I didn't say anyone claimed Sugars was a KPP. My point was 187cm was just as much a tweener as 191cm. Probably moreso as an athletic 191cm (BTW Grima measured 192cm at the DC) player can hold down a KP.

you need stop, slow down, and think about this. If he is seen as a 3rd tall he is not an inbetween size, if we wanted him to be a KPP then he is. which is where your claim that he is tweener falls down.

the same with Grima who the claim suggests, is perhaps an inbetween size to play the positions he is suited to. thus it is perfectly plausible that he can be bigger, and still not be big enough.

 

[Mego Red]

what an odd choice of 4 players, 3 of them have max contracts and the other is having a career year!

Well - I like Steph but he's lost wherever he's played. Terry is having an okay year, gettring more shots for a Dallas side that has seen a thinning of talent over the last two years, so there's really Nowitski, Teyy and maybe Josh Howard who need shots.

AI is having one of the GREAT years this year. He is such a revelation at his position.

I suppose I'm more talking about Arenas. Written off because of size, second round pick (which has a similar strike rate to the rookie draft). Now first team NBA at 24. Just saying that size isn't necessarily a definitive indicator, unless you're speaking of ruckmen ...

 

[Crow-mosone]

Well - I like Steph but he's lost wherever he's played. Terry is having an okay year, gettring more shots for a Dallas side that has seen a thinning of talent over the last two years, so there's really Nowitski, Teyy and maybe Josh Howard who need shots.

AI is having one of the GREAT years this year. He is such a revelation at his position.

I suppose I'm more talking about Arenas. Written off because of size, second round pick (which has a similar strike rate to the rookie draft). Now first team NBA at 24. Just saying that size isn't necessarily a definitive indicator, unless you're speaking of ruckmen ...

I think you're right in that ability can overcome size issues, but it requires a lot of ability.

what I think is more relevant is what I will now rename the Diaw effect.
I.e. how a players worth is directly related to the way in which is is used. Use him differently and the value proposition could be completely different, and your own prospects along the way.

Consider:
- Mark Stevens was a failed FF for North, until he found his feet at CHB.
- Ben Rutten was sniffing the unemployment list as a forward, but when used at FB...
- Tyson Stenglein was playing FB in the WAFL
- Kane Johnson was u/18 AA CHB
- Kenny Mac was heading nowhere in the forward fifty, found his feet, and is back there.
- Simon Goodwin was a vanilla HBF.

I just think the way you use a player, has as much effect on their worth as anything. But that you should also be careful to not try and see things that aren't there. ala Trent Ormond Allen, who should have been hunting on polo ponies with a name like that, not rucking for us!!

 

[Stiffy_18]

My point was you can't go writing people off by their height ...

You can if you are taking in other aspects of their make up in it. If a player is 188 cm and has shorter arm span than average for his height and he can't jump, can he play primarily as a key forward? Of course he can't.

Gibson is 195 cm and he has 6 cm shorter span than average for a player of his height but he makes up for it with a huge vertical leap. If he couldn't jump, I very much doubt he would have been drafted.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Fair enough, I took the comment to have been made after yesterday's drafts. It's still a strange reason, especially when you consider Adelaide then drafted a 187cm medium forward - that's more a tweener to me.

PS How tall is Ben Rutten?

187 cm is good for a 3rd tall hff/fp type. No one thinks Sugars is KPP. Everyone thinks that Grima is.

Rutten is 192 cm and 96 kg.

 

[outback jack]

187 cm is good for a 3rd tall hff/fp type. No one thinks Sugars is KPP. Everyone thinks that Grima is.

Rutten is 192 cm and 96 kg.

alot of emphasis is put on height instead of talent though isnt it. 190 sounds so much worse than 192 for some reason when if you're 2 cm taller than someone its barely anything. I think structurally in defence atleast its important to have players in correct weight/height ratio, something we didnt have for 5 or so yrs.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

you need stop, slow down, and think about this. If he is seen as a 3rd tall he is not an inbetween size, if we wanted him to be a KPP then he is. which is where your claim that he is tweener falls down.

the same with Grima who the claim suggests, is perhaps an inbetween size to play the positions he is suited to. thus it is perfectly plausible that he can be bigger, and still not be big enough.

Dress it up how you like, but to me 187 is an in between height. It doesn't mean you can't play as a tall forward, but it is still an in between height. 192 is a perfectly acceptable standard height for a key forward or even a 3rd tall. If there are other issues which affect performance in those positions (speed, strength, marking ability, ground skills) ... well that's another discussion isn't it?