Ross Lyon- Hate Thread.

[SA1NTER]

But the reason the Dons and Carlton have sixteen flags is because they have ingrained in their club culture few chiefs and many Indians. I just hope we can entrust the new job to someone who has played for the club.

And they won in Grand Final's when they played in them.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

And they won in Grand Final's when they played in them.

Don't forget we scared the life out of both of them. Given the lack of training facilities and limited budget our club had?

Have you ever been to the Lexus Centre on the Yarra? I used to work there. It's a ****en far cry from what a our blokes had at Moorabbin.

 

[SA1NTER]

Don't forget we scared the life out of both of them. Given the lack of training facilities and limited budget our club had?

Have you ever been to the Lexus Centre on the Yarra? I used to work there. It's a ****en far cry from what a our blokes had at Moorabbin.

I wouldn't step foot in the Lexus Centre. And yeah, the Seaford facilities really have evened up the playing field for us.

 

[sainter]

If you held him to his 3 month term you would also be unable to appoint a new coach, so he could effectively make all players sit on their arses for 3 months.

Not really great for the interest of the club and the players.

Personal retribution is not good business.

True but considering our president and CEO are representing the members a harsh word or two in his direction at the press conference would have been something.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

I wouldn't step foot in the Lexus Centre.

I'm with you there mate. It was either Lexus Centre and pay rent. Or refuse to work there and sleep in a St.Vinnies/Brotherhood Bin (a little cramped though)?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO? WORK FOR THE ENEMY OR DENY YOURSELF A ROOF?

You decide SA1NTER?

 

[Squizz]

True but considering our president and CEO are representing the members a harsh word or two in his direction at the press conference would have been something.

They would have already sensed the feelings of disgust by many outside the club, and didn't feel the need to snipe. I think the first question of Lyon was "Do you think you've knifed Mark Harvey in the back?" followed by quite a number questioning his integrity.

The board have taken the high road - and the necessary one that we don't have time to sit and sook. The corporate reality is that someone has moved on and they need to be replaced ASAP.

"We employ 100 people. Ross Lyon was just one of them" was blunt enough? As in the corporate world, the person in charge is nothing without a good team. The board obviously feel a good team remains in place.

 

[Goddardian]

True but considering our president and CEO are representing the members a harsh word or two in his direction at the press conference would have been something.

I quite liked the "we are not in the business of contacting coaches whilst they are under contract" call from Nettlefold. Nice little snide jab, made me chuckle

 

[phantom13]

They would have already sensed the feelings of disgust by many outside the club, and didn't feel the need to snipe. I think the first question of Lyon was "Do you think you've knifed Mark Harvey in the back?" followed by quite a number questioning his integrity.

The board have taken the high road - and the necessary one that we don't have time to sit and sook. The corporate reality is that someone has moved on and they need to be replaced ASAP.

"We employ 100 people. Ross Lyon was just one of them" was blunt enough? As in the corporate world, the person in charge is nothing without a good team. The board obviously feel a good team remains in place.

Personally i wasn't a fan of Nettlefolds scorned girlfriend act with the whole "were very disappointed" etc etc, i would have liked to see them come out along the lines of "no man is bigger than the club, we offered a deal we felt was fair and reasonable given his record (after all lets not forget he is the most successful coach who HAS NOT won a flag) he chose not to take it and we will now find a new coach" this whole were very disappointed crap just sounds like we really needed him and he had the whole club at his feet, if he doesn't want to coach us then fine f**k off and dont let the door hit you on the way out. Just felt like we played it a little too sob story for me.

 

[bangerharvey]

Sounded like Leigh Matthews gave Lyon a little clip last night when he said 'coaches should be about the team - jumping from one straight into another doesn't sit well with me'. He probably didn't appreciate Lyon quoting him in the press conference when trying to defend his actions.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

They would have already sensed the feelings of disgust by many outside the club, and didn't feel the need to snipe. I think the first question of Lyon was "Do you think you've knifed Mark Harvey in the back?" followed by quite a number questioning his integrity.

The board have taken the high road - and the necessary one that we don't have time to sit and sook. The corporate reality is that someone has moved on and they need to be replaced ASAP.

"We employ 100 people. Ross Lyon was just one of them" was blunt enough? As in the corporate world, the person in charge is nothing without a good team. The board obviously feel a good team remains in place.

The problem with the Club is that many Saints believe it's the exclusive domain of those that live in Sandringham, Black Rock, Beaumaris, Brighton Beach etc... I like stars with money too.

If St.Kilda want to emulate clubs like Essendon. Carlton, Collingwood & West Coast they really need to tap into their supporter base. Whether it be Tassie, times at the Junction Oval, Linton St etc...

The club has forgotten it's history in many ways imho.

Hence a good sponsor like St George quitting, Why is that? Out of control **** bags.

St.Kilda needs a Percy Cerutty type as coach. We are the closest to the dunes so that geographical anomaly should be utilized. FFS why doesnt St.Kilda make the eastern side of Port Phillip their supporter fortress. Is anyone else in the league there? Deadset that's a real question.

Lindsay Fox may provide helicopter support to the dunes? Who knows?

 

[Defacto]

posted this on saintsational:
i think we need to be careful in trashing lyon. whilst his exist was not graceful he has helped instill a great work ethic and professionalism in our players. he has also helped move our club forward. if we discredit him then we also discredit anything he helped build over the last 5 years.

we need to build on what he has achieved, evolve and become stronger. looking back on his exit, and discrediting him only helps erode all the progress we have made.

lets acknowledge the work he has done, the progress he has made and move forward.

the other thing i'd note is that i'm glad we did not have the opportunity to match freo's offer. given our financial situation, matching such an offer would be disastrous. i'm also glad he pulled the plug this year and not run out his contract with one foot in the door.

the abruptness of it all will also give us more time to find another coach!!!!

lets move forward!!!!

 

[Squizz]

Personally i wasn't a fan of Nettlefolds scorned girlfriend act with the whole "were very disappointed" etc etc

Yes - very stilted.

But a deliberate attempt not to get drawn into a saga of personal feelings. The hacks tried on a number of occasions.

What do they want?

"Geez I was shitty. I mean the _unt told all of us he was committed. Who the _uck does the little balding shit think he is? And then the w***er starts dribbling on about integrity? A lump of dog shit has more integrity. He can hold his head high? His head's halfway up his arseh*le! I'll look after your family all right, you _ucking t u r d"

Something like that?

But "That's a question for Ross" was used purposely many times.

 

[phantom13]

Yes - very stilted.

But a deliberate attempt not to get drawn into a saga of personal feelings. The hacks tried on a number of occasions.

What do they want?

"Geez I was shitty. I mean the _unt told all of us he was committed. Who the _uck does the little balding shit think he is? And then the w***er starts dribbling on about integrity? A lump of dog shit has more integrity. He can hold his head high? His head's halfway up his arseh*le! I'll look after your family all right, you _ucking t u r d"

Something like that?

But "That's a question for Ross" was used purposely many times.

No, actually, i loved our position not getting drawn in on the vendetta thing, our club can hold its head up that we didn't throw veiled insults (Ross' line about freo doing a deal in 72 hours that we couldn't do in 6 months made him look pathetic) but i would have liked us to be strong on our position, something about "we offered Ross what we felt he was worth and if someone else wants to offer more we wish him and them good luck, but no one man hold this club to ransom" possibly not as harsh as that. The shots on the footy show of Nettles pacing back and forth in his office and hearing all the disappointment, it just smacked of desperation.

 

[Kildonan]

No, actually, i loved our position not getting drawn in on the vendetta thing, our club can hold its head up that we didn't throw veiled insults (Ross' line about freo doing a deal in 72 hours that we couldn't do in 6 months made him look pathetic) but i would have liked us to be strong on our position, something about "we offered Ross what we felt he was worth and if someone else wants to offer more we wish him and them good luck, but no one man hold this club to ransom" possibly not as harsh as that. The shots on the footy show of Nettles pacing back and forth in his office and hearing all the disappointment, it just smacked of desperation.

I agree, man who walks, our actions were classy, we can hold our heads up with dignity.

 

[Crippa2Sipa]

He says he's committed to St Kilda when he'd talked to Freo 5 weeks ago!

I'm no better than the next person. When I'm gutted I like to snipe. Why not? Being angry feels better than being sad. But we ought to at least try to get the facts right.

Freo approached Ross on September 4th. There were no talks before then.

He declined to enter into discussions as he was concentrating on finals.

So, following the end of our finals campaign, Freo pursued him aggressively and within 3 days drew up the unconditional 4-year contract he had been seeking from us for over 6 months. According to Grant Thomas, a deal with St Kilda was reached on Wednesday but the CEO made subtle changes to the agreed contract which infuriated Ross and was the last straw. Also, there were lies and deception surrounding the Chris Pelchen appointment.

If we had an Eddie McGuire type as our President, he would have acted aggressively straight after the 2010 GFs to secure for our future the man he believed was destined to be the greatest coach in our history. He would have delivered to Lyon the extension and security of tenure he wanted out of respect for a man who had brought us to 3 GFs in 2 years; and he would have removed the get-out clause (inserted because of the club's insistence on a clause entitling the club to sack him at any time without pay) to lock him away safely from the poachers.

But that is not our way.... Our way is to see how little we can get away with offering the man we profess to so desperately want.

So we are sadly missing the point if, against that background, we persist in portraying Lyon as a mercenary Judas.

The fact is that our admin engaged in a prolonged, pathetic display of rank amateurism and monumental stupidity in dealing with a coach dedicated to the highest standards of professionalism which we either do not want or did not deserve.

Lyon was not just our coach; he was a genuine leader - apparently ahead of his time so far as our club was concerned. He was striving to transform us into a professionally run club akin to Collingwood and Geelong because that it what is required to win the premierships we demand.

By Thursday, faced with the contrasting approaches of Freo and St Kilda, it was clear to Lyon that to persist with that endeavour was futile.

The way Lenny and Stephen Milne feel about Ross is more than sufficient evidence for me that Ross loved our players and wanted to develop them. But he could no longer work with an executive which had shown itself to be inept and incapable of grasping what success in our time requires.

Our players deserved better than that. I'm not sure that we did, judging by the somewhat hysterical and ill-judged comments that have recently appeared on Board.

That we are all ranting and raving in our hatred of Ross instead of calling for the heads of those who failed to keep a coach of such quality reflects to me the perpetuation of our loser mentality. Anyone who thinks a Malthouse or a Roos would have a bar of us is dreaming.

The facts are what they are:

"In coaching terms Lyon is still a king"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/in-coaching-terms-lyon-is-still-a-king-20110917-1kf9a.html

 

[DalSainter]

I'm no better than the next person. When I'm gutted I like to snipe. Why not? Being angry feels better than being sad. But we ought to at least try to get the facts right.

Freo approached Ross on September 4th. There were no talks before then.

He declined to enter into discussions as he was concentrating on finals.

So, following the end of our finals campaign, Freo pursued him aggressively and within 3 days drew up the unconditional 4-year contract he had been seeking from us for over 6 months. According to Grant Thomas, a deal with St Kilda was reached on Wednesday but the CEO made subtle changes to the agreed contract which infuriated Ross and was the last straw. Also, there were lies and deception surrounding the Chris Pelchen appointment.

If we had an Eddie McGuire type as our President, he would have acted aggressively straight after the 2010 GFs to secure for our future the man he believed was destined to be the greatest coach in our history. He would have delivered to Lyon the extension and security of tenure he wanted out of respect for a man who had brought us to 3 GFs in 2 years; and he would have removed the get-out clause (inserted because of the club's insistence on a clause entitling the club to sack him at any time without pay) to lock him away safely from the poachers.

But that is not our way.... Our way is to see how little we can get away with offering the man we profess to so desperately want.

So we are sadly missing the point if, against that background, we persist in portraying Lyon as a mercenary Judas.

The fact is that our admin engaged in a prolonged, pathetic display of rank amateurism and monumental stupidity in dealing with a coach dedicated to the highest standards of professionalism which we either do not want or did not deserve.

Lyon was not just our coach; he was a genuine leader - apparently ahead of his time so far as our club was concerned. He was striving to transform us into a professionally run club akin to Collingwood and Geelong because that it what is required to win the premierships we demand.

By Thursday, faced with the contrasting approaches of Freo and St Kilda, it was clear to Lyon that to persist with that endeavour was futile.

The way Lenny and Stephen Milne feel about Ross is more than sufficient evidence for me that Ross loved our players and wanted to develop them. But he could no longer work with an executive which had shown itself to be inept and incapable of grasping what success in our time requires.

Our players deserved better than that. I'm not sure that we did, judging by the somewhat hysterical and ill-judged comments that have recently appeared on Board.

That we are all ranting and raving in our hatred of Ross instead of calling for the heads of those who failed to keep a coach of such quality reflects to me the perpetuation of our loser mentality. Anyone who thinks a Malthouse or a Roos would have a bar of us is dreaming.

The facts are what they are:

"In coaching terms Lyon is still a king"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/in-coaching-terms-lyon-is-still-a-king-20110917-1kf9a.html

whatever dude pull the other one

 

[Kildonan]

Why do people imply that the club is at fault in not renegotiating a contract while we were competing in AFL finals? For goodness sake - there was still a year to run on his contract. RL, himself had given his word that he would remain through 2012 and they sat down with him and agreed on a 4 year unconditional contract.

Ross Lyon was heavily pushed by Robert Walls to leave St Kilda for greener pastures. Lyon displayed the Walls model of loyalty by dropping St Kilda like a hot potato and going.

The media (in general) and Robert Walls (in particular - but you can throw Mal Blight and others in there as well) have seriously impugned our club and/or acted against its better interests.

 

[Crippa2Sipa]

I quite liked the "we are not in the business of contacting coaches whilst they are under contract" call from Nettlefold. Nice little snide jab, made me chuckle

And there's the difference between a losing-culture like ours and the winning culture of a club like Collingwood. Eddie knew what he wanted. He went for Malthouse, contract or no contract. Then he spoiled the bastard rotten until, 11 years later, courtesy of inside info on Lyon's game plan - again delivered through the machinations of McGuire - he delivered that elusive premiership.

I doubt you'd be taking the moral high ground if we were in Collingwood's position. When Nettlefold uttered that idiotic sanctimonious line I nearly vomited. It just screamed "loser" to me.

 

[karmafree]

I am a known critic of our administration and lament its lack of balls in nearly everything it does. On this issue I tend to side with the admin. When the jerk wanted a 4 year extension after we were 1-7 imagine the outcry if the admin locked him in for 4 years we go onto a 7-15 season. The admin was rightfully cautious. Now for him to blame them for their lack of professionalism is plainly ridiculous and only exposes his mercenary attitude, which if the dollars are true that he has been offered, I can't blame him for taking. As I have pointed out previously, just admit it Ross. "I went for the bucks, no other reason"

 

[Crippa2Sipa]

I am a known critic of our administration and lament its lack of balls in nearly everything it does. On this issue I tend to side with the admin. When the jerk wanted a 4 year extension after we were 1-7 imagine the outcry if the admin locked him in for 4 years we go onto a 7-15 season. The admin was rightfully cautious.

Lyon wanted a 3-year, not a 4-year extension. And yes, we were 1-7, but that was after 3 GFs in 2 years and after a pre-season interrupted by a continual avalanche of scandal and drama and mass psychological fallout that no professional coach should be expected to have to deal with virtually alone. That he dealt with it in the stoic and exemplary manner he did was in itself worthy of rewarding him the extension he asked for.

Someone like a Malthouse has never had to deal with one iota of the crap that Lyon was continually being expected to shovel and would not have been capable of doing it even if asked.

Nor was the possibility that we could have ended up with a 7-15 season a valid ground for "caution". If they were afraid of the potential fallout, then as you say, they should have grown some balls. Malthouse after 2 GFs dropped straight to the bottom of the table and stayed there for 2 years. There were plenty of people calling for Malthouse's head but McGuire was not particularly bothered.

Now for him to blame them for their lack of professionalism is plainly ridiculous and only exposes his mercenary attitude, which if the dollars are true that he has been offered, I can't blame him for taking. As I have pointed out previously, just admit it Ross. "I went for the bucks, no other reason"

Lyon repeatedly said (and has been unjustly criticized for saying) that his purpose are his wife and his three children. That was more than sufficient acknowledgement that money was an important factor. Calling him "mercenary" for that reason is fatuous and hypocritical.

It also flies in the face of the facts. For the past 5 years, Lyon's s salary and conditions have been worse than 2/3 of the Senior coaching fraternity, not one of which was fit to hold the candle to him. That was all the more reason to lock him away immediately after the 2010 GFs, before clubs with bigger bucks than we could afford would go after him, as they surely would and ultimately did.

How anyone can see Lyon, rather than our naive, incompetent administration, as the villain of the piece is beyond me and frankly baffling.

Still, you get what you deserve, I suppose.

 

[karmafree]

My Bitterness Crippa is more directed at a hypothetical, just for once I wanted our club to have a decade long period of stability. Same coach, players regularly turned over in a sensible fashion and an administration that had the were with all to keep it together. Denied! For what ever reason. Frankly I can't believe the guy was on hard street earning in excess of $500,000 p.a. If you can't set yourself up with that you really are a ********.
Greed is the factor, and the players had better watch out with what they are demanding it will stuff up the game and limit it to only a few clubs being able to win a flag as per the pre- commission days.

 

[phantom13]

Why do people imply that the club is at fault in not renegotiating a contract while we were competing in AFL finals? For goodness sake - there was still a year to run on his contract. RL, himself had given his word that he would remain through 2012 and they sat down with him and agreed on a 4 year unconditional contract.

Ross Lyon was heavily pushed by Robert Walls to leave St Kilda for greener pastures. Lyon displayed the Walls model of loyalty by dropping St Kilda like a hot potato and going.

The media (in general) and Robert Walls (in particular - but you can throw Mal Blight and others in there as well) have seriously impugned our club and/or acted against its better interests.

100% spot on, for Lyon to come out and say that freo got a deal done in 72 hours that we took 6 months to come to is comparing apples to fish, he was our coach he had a year to run on his contract we were in the hunt for finals and eventually got there, when another club is hunting you of course they will move heaven and earth to do it, whereas when your incumbent with a year to go of course we were not going to be as forthright, and given our results for the majority of the year, nor should we have been. All the love for Ross is a little perplexing, he does have an excellent record, he did get alot from our playing group, but he didn't exactly take over a team of spuds. Most coaches would fancy there chances with a list that has Hayes, Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher plus a host of solid contributors, dont blame him for going as i wouldn't blame BJ if GWS throw 1.6-2 million a year at him next year, its a cut throat business and any security you can get, good luck to you, but Ross' presser was difficult to watch as he just sounded like a mercernary. Hopefully the same thing happens at Freo and they shaft him they way they did Harvey.

 

[phantom13]

Lyon wanted a 3-year, not a 4-year extension. And yes, we were 1-7, but that was after 3 GFs in 2 years and after a pre-season interrupted by a continual avalanche of scandal and drama and mass psychological fallout that no professional coach should be expected to have to deal with virtually alone. That he dealt with it in the stoic and exemplary manner he did was in itself worthy of rewarding him the extension he asked for.

Someone like a Malthouse has never had to deal with one iota of the crap that Lyon was continually being expected to shovel and would not have been capable of doing it even if asked.

Nor was the possibility that we could have ended up with a 7-15 season a valid ground for "caution". If they were afraid of the potential fallout, then as you say, they should have grown some balls. Malthouse after 2 GFs dropped straight to the bottom of the table and stayed there for 2 years. There were plenty of people calling for Malthouse's head but McGuire was not particularly bothered.

Lyon repeatedly said (and has been unjustly criticized for saying) that his purpose are his wife and his three children. That was more than sufficient acknowledgement that money was an important factor. Calling him "mercenary" for that reason is fatuous and hypocritical.

It also flies in the face of the facts. For the past 5 years, Lyon's s salary and conditions have been worse than 2/3 of the Senior coaching fraternity, not one of which was fit to hold the candle to him. That was all the more reason to lock him away immediately after the 2010 GFs, before clubs with bigger bucks than we could afford would go after him, as they surely would and ultimately did.

How anyone can see Lyon, rather than our naive, incompetent administration, as the villain of the piece is beyond me and frankly baffling.

Still, you get what you deserve, I suppose.

To coin a phrase nobody remembers who came second, at the end of the day the record books show two grand final losses, unlucky maybe, but we lost therefore he doesnt get the same credit points.

He is a mercenary, he went for more dollars, i dont blame him for that, good luck to him, he is in the opposition colors now and we should treat him as such, he did what was best for him, anyone who has a crack at him for that is a blithering idiot, but there was no need for the pot shots at us.

 

[Squizz]

Lyon wanted a 3-year, not a 4-year extension.

That's semantics.

He didn't want an extension anyway. He has admitted that he wanted a 4 year contract without conditions (that's a new contract, not an extension).

The club should have negotiated - it was way too much for mine. Lyon would already get bonuses for the GF appearances.

Loyalty should count for something, as it should with the players.

Our players can get better offers elsewhere from time to time. Where the Saints are genuinely trying to be reasonable with contracts, I'd like to think they would stay.

 

[StFly]

I'm no better than the next person. When I'm gutted I like to snipe. Why not? Being angry feels better than being sad. But we ought to at least try to get the facts right.

Freo approached Ross on September 4th. There were no talks before then.

He declined to enter into discussions as he was concentrating on finals.

So, following the end of our finals campaign, Freo pursued him aggressively and within 3 days drew up the unconditional 4-year contract he had been seeking from us for over 6 months. According to Grant Thomas, a deal with St Kilda was reached on Wednesday but the CEO made subtle changes to the agreed contract which infuriated Ross and was the last straw. Also, there were lies and deception surrounding the Chris Pelchen appointment.

I stopped reading here, I assume you stopped thinking here so it works out.

Grant Thomas stopped being involved in the club the moment he signed on the dotted line in media contracts, he has a track record at slinging mud at the club when it engages in ways he would not and contrary to his opinion contracts and decisions are made without his approval.

Grant Thomas would have no conceivable idea as to the particulars of discussioned between Lyon, Lyons management, any director at the St Kilda Football club or any decision that Nettleford made in regards to any contractual alterations because he is Grant Thomas and not involved in any of the decisions made.

The very minute you have an individual in the media asserting that they are aware of contract particulars it should send up warning flares they are talking through their rectums.