Ross, Play The Kids Please?

[Qsaint]

Which Kids do you think have a future? Gilbert is a standout but other than that do we have much potential?

 

[saintsownthedome]

three games at the end of the year are not going to make these kids AFL superstars overnight you guys have lost the plot id rather play finals and finish 8th than be bored shitless in september get a grip quitters

Totally agree here. Why do we give up when we're still a very strong chance to play finals footy ?

Sneak into 8th, and draw Collingwood, Hawthorn or even North and we're even money to make it through to Week 2. With the players we have, and more games under the belts of guys like Max, Goose, Lenny - who knows what might happen ? Maybe not a flag, but a deep run into September.

Or we could just give up now...... jeez

 

[ChrisFooty]

I agree Jones should NOT be in the side. The fact remains there are better players in the VFL to select than Jones, even more so with our shorterned injury toll.

 

[NeXus_Helen]

Our depth is the worst in the AFL. John Beveridge is accountible to this. Ross Lyon's game plan needs players who are 50-90 games experienced with bodies that are prepared to crash and bang. The problem lies at the saints with all there high draft picks, keeping them on the field and expecting them to play a brand of football that is foreign to their natural instincts. Let's be real we are playing the most boring football ever, the game against Sydney was a joke. I don't believe for one minute the players are completely buying into Lyon's game plan. Look at Geelong, they are our arch enemy, what style do they play? What style do West Coast play? Game plans should be built around what suits the team fabric, we have gone backwards, to bring Sydneys game plan to the saints is laughable.

Congratulations kingbrown......you hit the nail right on the head. We have gone from one of the most attacking sides in the comp to the most boring. The 2 passages that I have highlighted in your quote are spot on. I don't blame Lyon though. He is just implementing his style which he has every right to. The person responsible for St.kilda's fall from grace is Rod Butthead. He should never have sacked Grant Thomas. He let personal problems get in the way of the St.kilda Football Club. I have been a member for over 25 years, a social club member since 1996 and a reserved seat holder ever since we moved to Telstra Dome. My 2 kids have been members for 4 years....that's nearly $1000 a year I fork out. I will not be renewing next year, in fact, I will not be buying memberships again until Butthead leaves the club. He has single handedly destroyed our chances of winning a premiership with this group of players. It will be at least 5 years before we can seriously challenge again.!!!!!

 

[ChrisL#12]

With the personnel Carlton had/has, they could have played any style and it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.

If you are comparing our talent level with Carlton's without mentioning the words "... is much, much better than..." then I would argue that you don't belong here.

We have the talent - all we need is the fitness. And it will come.

I'm not comparing us to Carlton in regards to talent at all. You're right, we are much, much better. I'm just saying that because our coach has come from Sydney, that doesn't mean we'll win a flag just because Sydney did. Coaches come to a club and find that they have a whole different set of personnel, and the game plan that worked somewhere else might not work at the current club. And I was just pointing out the ridiculous statement that because Lyon came from Sydney there is light at the end of the tunnel. It's completely different circumstances, need I remind everybody of the Malcolm Blight saga.

 

[sauce_head]

Congratulations kingbrown......you hit the nail right on the head. We have gone from one of the most attacking sides in the comp to the most boring. The 2 passages that I have highlighted in your quote are spot on. I don't blame Lyon though. He is just implementing his style which he has every right to. The person responsible for St.kilda's fall from grace is Rod Butthead. He should never have sacked Grant Thomas. He let personal problems get in the way of the St.kilda Football Club. I have been a member for over 25 years, a social club member since 1996 and a reserved seat holder ever since we moved to Telstra Dome. My 2 kids have been members for 4 years....that's nearly $1000 a year I fork out. I will not be renewing next year, in fact, I will not be buying memberships again until Butthead leaves the club. He has single handedly destroyed our chances of winning a premiership with this group of players. It will be at least 5 years before we can seriously challenge again.!!!!!

I can not agree with you entirely. Whilst I think Thomas did good for the club, I think Butress has done more. Remember he installed him as coach anyway, in what was a shameless promotion of an underqualified coash, in relation to the market. I still think he did well and am not convinced he should have gone.

However Butress is still there, still making positives moves for teh club and its vision. The fact Thomas is gone and the laundry has been aired in public really means little to do with on field performace. We are still doing well financially which, unfortunately, means more for our survival than winning premierships (look at the Roos for a case in point).

I think RL and his methods will prove valuable, at the very least removing the coach from running all aspects of the club.

 

[ChrisL#12]

Rod Butterss, while hopeless in the media, has done more for our club off-field than anybody in recent memory. No more needs to be said.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Firstly, Jones: he was simply dynamic at the beginning of the year. He's had a lousy couple of weeks, which is no surprise since he's a young buck who loved to get into the crunches, and came out second best, breaking a shoulder. His issue is the PSYCHOLOGICAL recovery needed from the injury. That will only get better with game time, and the best place to do that for now is the Scorps. Then he'll be a blinda. He comes HIGHLY respected, with awards and stuff, from the WAFL (in fact, come to think of it, perhaps the games against Freo and the Water Closets might have suited him... anyway...). Writing him off is just reactionary.

Thinking it through this week, I figure whether we finish 8th or 10th ultimately doesn't mean much - Losing in the first week of the finals is big whoop. There's really not much point to playing kids for three weeks either. 8th or 10th isn't going to make much difference in what sounds like a pretty ordinary draft year either. In short, whatever happens from this point on, well, casera sera.

At the selection table this week, I think Lyon has shown he's seriously trying to get into the finals, not play kids. Rookies have been dropped.

 

[NeXus_Helen]

I can not agree with you entirely. Whilst I think Thomas did good for the club, I think Butress has done more. Remember he installed him as coach anyway, in what was a shameless promotion of an underqualified coash, in relation to the market. I still think he did well and am not convinced he should have gone.

However Butress is still there, still making positives moves for teh club and its vision. The fact Thomas is gone and the laundry has been aired in public really means little to do with on field performace. We are still doing well financially which, unfortunately, means more for our survival than winning premierships (look at the Roos for a case in point).

I think RL and his methods will prove valuable, at the very least removing the coach from running all aspects of the club.

Do you really think the profits that St.kilda are making are due to Butthead??? Let me tell you something that is very obvious to me that may not be to you. If the Saints are winning and playing in finals, I could be president and St.kilda would still make million dollar profits evey year. And that is really saying something considering I'm in IT and know nothing about financials!!!!!

Just you wait until next year. If, as I suspect, we crash down to the bottom 4, plus the backlash from this year, which will mean a drop in membership, you can say goodbye to consecutive million dollar profits. Next year will be a rude awakening for a lot of St.kilda supporters. That's when the full extent of Butthead's actions will be exposed for all to see.

 

[bubblegoose]

Just you wait until next year. If, as I suspect, we crash down to the bottom 4, plus the backlash from this year, which will mean a drop in membership, you can say goodbye to consecutive million dollar profits. Next year will be a rude awakening for a lot of St.kilda supporters. That's when the full extent of Butthead's actions will be exposed for all to see.

If you know something we don't maybe you could enlighten us mushrooms

 

[ChrisFooty]

St.kilda fans shouldnt be expecting the side to finish bottom four next year. If we do, Ross will feel the heat.

 

[sauce_head]

Do you really think the profits that St.kilda are making are due to Butthead??? Let me tell you something that is very obvious to me that may not be to you. If the Saints are winning and playing in finals, I could be president and St.kilda would still make million dollar profits evey year. And that is really saying something considering I'm in IT and know nothing about financials!!!!!

Just you wait until next year. If, as I suspect, we crash down to the bottom 4, plus the backlash from this year, which will mean a drop in membership, you can say goodbye to consecutive million dollar profits. Next year will be a rude awakening for a lot of St.kilda supporters. That's when the full extent of Butthead's actions will be exposed for all to see.

Is Butress responsible for our game plan now? Perhaps it is his fault he set up an independant panel to select a new coach, appointed a football operations manager as well?

So far you have given no evidence as to why he is bad for the club except to tell us for firing Thomas! I gather that before this occurred you thought he was the best pres going around?

His job is to run the club financially, which he is doing a good job of. Tell me how that can be achieved better and I will listen. His is not the business of determing the game plan.

 

[NeXus_Helen]

Attention sauce head......I am not going to try and change your mind regarding Butthead. I can only state my opinion, (see my previous posts).

The only thing I can do is speak up at the AGM, which I did last year and I will do again this year. Unfortunately the board couldn't give a rats ar$e what the supporters think.

 

[Kildonan]

I'll suggest that the board are very interested in what we have to say - they are just slow to react

 

[saintsownthedome]

To ChrisL who suggested that Gehrig be dropped this week so that we could take a look at some kids for next year.

Ner ner ner....

hehe

 

[ChrisL#12]

To ChrisL who suggested that Gehrig be dropped this week so that we could take a look at some kids for next year.

Ner ner ner....

hehe

You don't win the flag in Round 20. He can kick as many as he likes now and it doesn't matter. The fact is we're not going to win a premiership this year, we don't have the wins on the board to get a double chance and home final. This year has been wasted by injuries. We'll only finish 8th now and lose either first or second week of the finals.

PS. It was great to see him a have a day out though.

 

[The Punter]

By definition an appearance in the second week of finals for St Kilda is progress - an improvement on last year.

To address the original point of the thread, as cannot be eliminated from finals calculations until the last round now, I guess we won't be "playing the kids".

 

[sainter]

You don't win the flag in Round 20. He can kick as many as he likes now and it doesn't matter. The fact is we're not going to win a premiership this year, we don't have the wins on the board to get a double chance and home final. This year has been wasted by injuries. We'll only finish 8th now and lose either first or second week of the finals.

PS. It was great to see him a have a day out though.

I can understand where you are coming from Chris but I really don't agree.

Sure it would be great to get some games into our kids but provided that they are getting plenty of game time in the VFL why would we not want to progress as far as possible?

Will we win the premiership this season? Probably not.

However it is absolutely in our best interest to finish as high as possible. If we can squeeze into the finals, we might be lucky enough to come up against Collingwood, Hawthorn or the Kangaroos and avoid a first up interstate trip. Win that and who knows what might happen.

It hasn't been a great season but we've put our situation where we're still a chance to make the finals and I can't see why we shouldn't go all out to achieve that. Once there anything can happen.

 

[ChrisFooty]

If we make the finals, it would be considered a successful season. When you consider the very poor start, adopting to a new coaches game plan, and the horrific first half of year injury toll, it would be excellent.

I don't think st.kilda will play finals. Not this year. West Coast is a very tough game (even in melbourne) They will probably get Judd and Cousins back, so very tough. You never know.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Look, the most likely scenario is that there will be three interstate teams in the final 8 this year, and probably that they will not be in the right spots to get many home games. Even if we only finish 8th, I suspect we will be playing in Melbourne, possibly TD, most of the time. And we can beat ANYONE if we're playing at TD, and quite a few at the MCG. I don't like the idea of us travelling interstate though.

If we play Geelong at TD, which is possible, then I think we can give them a pretty big scare. I think we can win the whole shebang from 7th or 8th.

Does anybody know what is the absolute HIGHEST we can finish from here, if results go our way? Any chance of a 5th or 6th spot?

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Does anybody know what is the absolute HIGHEST we can finish from here, if results go our way? Any chance of a 5th or 6th spot?

Theoretically, we could even make into the Top 4 (very unlikely - we would need Sydney to draw both C'wood and Hawthorn and need to win our two matches by about 150 points each) !

7th is a real possibility but anything above that would require a few real upsets !

In any event, I'd be quite happy with 8th !!!

 

[Hoova]

Look, the most likely scenario is that there will be three interstate teams in the final 8 this year, and probably that they will not be in the right spots to get many home games. Even if we only finish 8th, I suspect we will be playing in Melbourne, possibly TD, most of the time. And we can beat ANYONE if we're playing at TD, and quite a few at the MCG. I don't like the idea of us travelling interstate though.

If we play Geelong at TD, which is possible, then I think we can give them a pretty big scare. I think we can win the whole shebang from 7th or 8th.

Does anybody know what is the absolute HIGHEST we can finish from here, if results go our way? Any chance of a 5th or 6th spot?

Now I enjoy my football, and believe I am fair in my general opinions of our Victorian Clubs. I've just been reading this thread, and have been astounded by what you've written. You are simply not being a realist, I can't believe the sheer naivity shown by you in the previous post. St. Kilda have absolutely no chance in winning the big one from 8th position, if you make the finals. Being a realist, I can observe that you don't have the depth, possibly due to injuries, and you don't have the intent to go the whole way. I think for the benefit of your club, you should consider your real chance to make it this year, and you will realise that St Kilda won't make it the whole way this year.

 

[ChrisL#12]

Now I enjoy my football, and believe I am fair in my general opinions of our Victorian Clubs. I've just been reading this thread, and have been astounded by what you've written. You are simply not being a realist, I can't believe the sheer naivity shown by you in the previous post. St. Kilda have absolutely no chance in winning the big one from 8th position, if you make the finals. Being a realist, I can observe that you don't have the depth, possibly due to injuries, and you don't have the intent to go the whole way. I think for the benefit of your club, you should consider your real chance to make it this year, and you will realise that St Kilda won't make it the whole way this year.

As much as I hate to admit it, this guy is spot on. Everyone on this board has to stop kidding themselves about some rubbish fairytale. The simple fact is, that in todays competition nobody can win it from eighth spot. The draw becomes too hard and there is a reason teams finish in eighth, because they can't string enough games together in succession. This is exactly what needs to happen in finals and it is this fact which is why we can't win the flag this year. We simply can't get enough wins on the board in a row.

 

[saintsownthedome]

As much as I hate to admit it, this guy is spot on. Everyone on this board has to stop kidding themselves about some rubbish fairytale. The simple fact is, that in todays competition nobody can win it from eighth spot. The draw becomes too hard and there is a reason teams finish in eighth, because they can't string enough games together in succession. This is exactly what needs to happen in finals and it is this fact which is why we can't win the flag this year. We simply can't get enough wins on the board in a row.

If everyone had an attitude like you Chris, we'd never acheive anything. One day a team will win the flag from eighth and although it probably wont be us this year, it will happen. Because a group of people believe.

Ask Port Adelaide fans how they feel about the Crows slipping into the eight, and possibly playing Collingwood, then North - and having a PF against the Power. They're very nervous.

You might be a great bloke, but your 'toes up' attitude sucks.

 

[Hoova]

If everyone had an attitude like you Chris, we'd never acheive anything. One day a team will win the flag from eighth and although it probably wont be us this year, it will happen. Because a group of people believe.

Ask Port Adelaide fans how they feel about the Crows slipping into the eight, and possibly playing Collingwood, then North - and having a PF against the Power. They're very nervous.

You might be a great bloke, but your 'toes up' attitude sucks.

Without sounding presumptious about St Kilda as a club, it is fair to say that they won't win the Grand Final this year, if they get into the 8th position. Secondly, a positive attitude from supporters and members alike, never gets the club anywhere; case in point, Geelong. Sometimes, such as this time, a "toes-up" attitude is like a breath of fresh air, someone who is willing to bring the club out of mediocrity and into brilliance. So I don't think there is any benefit in trying to pump your team up, like what has been done to my club for so long, when all it will do is create dashed hopes. Without trying to sound repetitive, a certain level-headedness is essential for a team in such a position as St Kilda. After a re-building period has not lived up to high hopes, it is imperitive that action is taken, and that a fluffy cloud of false optimism is not put on top of this team. Do not elevate your hopes up too high, and then go on to have them dashed. Be real about the current situation, this way not only can St Kilda move forward, but heartbreak can be avoided.