Round 14 vs North Melbourne, Sunday Twilight @ Etihad Stadium

[Happy Daze]

What happened to Saad today? Difficult to win after a bye - loss always on the cards. Think you'll be much better against us next week. Good luck etc.

 

[vicco]

Well only one word can describe today's performance, pathetic. To lose to a bunch of frontrunning squibs like North by 30 odd points is disgraceful.

Once again we left too much to too few with too many passengers.

It's time to make wholesale changes for next week.

Out - Kosi, Milne, Clarke, Gilbert, Gram, Goddard (either through suspension or shit form), they were our chief offenders and there should be a few other players put on notice or they can join them.

In - Wilkes, Ray, Jones, Simpkin, Siposs, Ledger and anyone else that actually wants to put in 100% effort and show some f***ing pride in the jumper they're wearing.

Kudos to Hayes, Armitage, Steven, Geary and McEvoy for playing with some heart and keeping us in it but they didn't have many mates out there helping them out.

That's one of the worst losses I can remember as a St Kilda supporter, I can handle losing if we get beaten by a better side but I won't cop losing if we lose because of lack of effort and fight with players not putting in 100% effort. One of the reasons I support St Kilda is because we usually have a crack in every game with the whole team giving 100% effort but today we didn't have that and that's what hurts the most.

I'm not writing off the season just yet but we have to select a team full of players that want to give 100% and show some respect to the jumper they are wearing or we can kiss this season goodbye.

Im with you on all of this. Good post.

 

[StFly]

You really have no business being anywhere near finals if you're going to drop to Norf.

Kosi has to go. Structures is an abolute horseshit excuse, it's not fair on guys like Siposs that are actually producing yet find themselves dropped. If he's still in next week then he must have more pictures, surely.

Not liking the charades with selection/25 man squad thing either. Saad hadn't played in a month, and you could tell. Siposs who was getting some serious mojo now hasn't played in 2 weeks and Wilkes was pulled from VFL for whatever reason. And for a guy who hasn't played much AFL in a couple of years, missing another week in VFL sure as hell won't help him slip into the pace should we require him next week.

And is Newnes injured? Why didn't he play VFL either?

It's not "that" bad, North are a variable team who, on their day, can beat any side out there this year quite comfortably, their problem is that more often than not they wilt under pressure and capitulate leads (ie deep into the 4th v Adelaide when they were up and about) it severely dents our chances to make finals however as this was the week where we should have been fresher as we were tiring, we should have been cleaner as we were fatigued and instead we were lazy, undisciplined and simply didn't want it. Merely means we have to make it up elsewhere and hope North drop one they should otherwise win.

Do agree re charades & player management, it's kind of astounding how poorly it seems to have been done off a bye.

 

[Dazb86]

With Goddard what would you be asking for him?

I doubt the teams struggling at the bottom would be willing to part with a high pick for a 28 year old.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

You only just learnt that?

Is your question a positive or a negative one?

I'm trying to focus on the positives. And he continued to endure today even amongst the complete capitulation to the opposition by others.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

With Goddard what would you be asking for him?

I doubt the teams struggling at the bottom would be willing to part with a high pick for a 28 year old.

Definitely not Minson! We don't need a trash-talking elitist FIGJAM in our squad.

 

[CHBench]

Jesus, some of us love to dwell don't we? Luke Ball, bounces, Lyon. Get over it already. Shit night for SW, obviously, but RL + St Kilda was a rotting carcas. Does everyone not remember how miserable this club was last year? Shudder to think where we'd be right now if Rosich didn't pull out the cheque book.

I learnt this 2 years ago, but still, Kosi needs to go.
Someone needs to tell Raph to lean back a little when he kicks, those lollipops are killer.

 

[CHBench]

Sorry, but I don't rate them at all. Tonight is on par with Round 1, probably worse given the circumstances. And of course the killer blow is we've pretty much lost all 'realistic' control of our finals chances.

Dog of a night.

 

[Plugger35]

Sorry, but I don't rate them at all. Tonight is on par with Round 1, probably worse given the circumstances. And of course the killer blow is we've pretty much lost all 'realistic' control of our finals chances.

Dog of a night.

Yeah I agree, losing to better teams you can cope with, it's losing to teams that are worse than us like Port, Freo and North that are hard to cope with. We are a better team than all three of them but for various reasons like bad umpiring, bad kicking for goal and our players not playing to their potential we have walked away with a loss.

I still have faith in Watters as a coach, he is a smart bloke and I think he is getting us to play the right game plan but some of our players are letting him down and it's mainly our more experienced players too. It's not his fault they keep butchering opportunities and missing easy shots at goal.

I just hope he has the guts to drop some of our more experienced and established underperformers like Kosi and Milne and give more of our younger players an opportunity. It's not easy to do that but he was hired to reinvent and regenerate our team which he has been doing so far to a certain extent by dropping players like Peake and Polo but he needs to make some tougher calls on our more established players that aren't delivering.

It might mean some short term pain for some long term gain but I will back him if he does as that's what we need to move forward as a club.

 

[Squizz]

So no-one wants to talk about why Watters is playing a clearly lame Riewoldt? Just a ridiculous selection. And whoever is putting rohypnol in Kosi's drink bottle - please stop. Can't say I'm rapt about Rhys re-injuring his hammy and making Milera a sub when he's been well off his best for a few weeks now. This is the Lyon cancer that seems to have spread to the current selection committee.

 

[stkildathunda]

Scott Watters on Kosi - He wasn’t 100% but he pushed through. Im loathe to make excuses for any our players. He {Kosi} had to battle through. Was he perfect tonight from physical well being point view, no he wasn’t but he is still expected to play a role.

Why the hell did he play then if he wasnt 100%

 

[StFly]

Harsh to say "clearly better" than and start listing off sides, I mean, this year you have the 2 expansions which are clear as they're expansion, they're fresh and new and massively behind the 8 ball as far as a team of AFL footballers go, then you have the step up in currently the Dogs and Melbourne who are just having an utter shizen year that clubs have, and I mean they have them, do we suddenly forget the 80's and become the arrogant twats slagging off any team which may not be "up" when we're "up" or "at" where we're "at"? Similarly, this season is even, I mean have you seen the ladder recently and how many teams are divided by percentage alone? Have you seen that we've consistently been "stuck" with 4 other teams in that traffic jam? 1 game "gaps" before leaping up or dropping back?

Take off the supporter glasses for a second and actually look at the footy, the game, how it unfolds, how the players act (as an eg I didn't and don't get Stantons hatred by Bomber fans when I've often seen Zaharakis taking the softer option and dropping out to get the cheap ball, similar to Gram with us, I've been livid with him when playing injured and he squibbed contact, however recently he's got bigger balls that Dals got and a majority of you are blind to it) but that's a tangent, anyway, you'll find a very even contest, you'll find a rough estimate of 55-45% between each sides domination over the course of the game, the differences being the scoreboard pressure during those periods, because as has been seen time and time again is that sides can dominate play, they can lock it in their forward half and for all the work, those 20 I50's those 80% ToG in F50, they take 2 marks inside 50 and scrounge 2.7 then the other mob gets 13.4 and utterly pants the life out of them.

There are clear definitions in so far that from Collingwood (1st) to Hawthorn (6th) there's a gap to Geelong (7th) a further gap to our batch now led by North (8th) all the way to Freo/Carlton (12th) in these groups there is no "clearly" better side at present, there are sides who take their chances and make the most of their periods of dominance and there are sides that don't.

Edit:

ugh did not like that bit on Kosi from Watters when we have Wilkes banging the door down. If you have a bye and you're still injured take the fornicating further time off. That's what depth is for.

 

[CHBench]

We have Beau Wilkes kicking 4 in the VFL every week, and we're playing Kosi AND Riewoldt injured?
Kosi can't even perform when fit, WHY when he's injured?!

Reeks of saving face.

 

[Plugger35]

So no-one wants to talk about why Watters is playing a clearly lame Riewoldt? Just a ridiculous selection. And whoever is putting rohypnol in Kosi's drink bottle - please stop. Can't say I'm rapt about Rhys re-injuring his hammy and making Milera a sub when he's been well off his best for a few weeks now. This is the Lyon cancer that seems to have spread to the current selection committee.

Riewoldt looked OK to me, maybe not 100% but he was running OK and flying for marks. Once again it was the inability of our midfield to hit him on the chest or at least put it to his advantage that hurt us.

As for Kosi I hope he wasn't 100% as he was bloody awful and he has been for a few weeks. I thought that with the extra weeks rest from the bye he might get back to some of his early season form and deserved one more chance to prove himself but after today's woeful performance he has to be dropped for Wilkes. He was a liability out there today and we were basically a man down with him in the side, combine that with Blake going off injured just after we subbed Stanley off and we were two down for the last quarter and a half which was no doubt a factor in North overrunning us.

As I said before I have faith in Watters game plan, maybe he has made some mistakes with his team selections but hopefully he learns from them and can get the right mix for us and put together a team that fits his game plan.

A changeover with a new coach isn't always easy as they have to come to grips with the list they have at their disposal and work out who fits in with their game plan and who doesn't, Watters is working through that this season. If it's any consolation our ex-supercoach Lyon is having the same issues at Fremantle and he is getting paid a shitload more than Watters.

 

[thomas_m18]

Very disappointed about the whole game, especially at selection. Ray, Wilkes, Simpkin all should have played for mine. Harvey was covered fine without Jones, but Wells tore us up. What was Raph Clarke doing on Hansen? Clear mismatch, and I know Simpkin isn't ideal, but he would have done a better job. On Clarke, I like facets of what he does, and he shows quite a bit of courage at times, but his mistakes are absolute killers. The one where he ran down the ground, didn't dispose and got caught was an absolute nightmare, and the worst part is that it happens almost every game.

If Riewoldt and Kosi aren't fit, don't ****ing play them. Sick of this. No-one is irreplaceable. We have guys like Wilkes and Siposs who we can use as forwards, so why not bloody use them? I don't think I saw Kosi run once.

Very disappointing effort overall, very poor perfomances from some and collectively. Too many players doing too little.

No need to go overboard with changes, but something has to be done.

IN: Wilkes, Ray, Simpkin (Curren/Siposs/Cripps/Dunnell/whoever)
OUT: Koschitzke, Blake (inj), Milera (Goddard) (Clarke)

If Blake is fit, I reckon he'll stay and Clarke will go. Just feel that we need Gwilt, Blake, Simpkin and Fisher back to have a chance against any half decent key forwards.

On the plus side, we had a few good performers. Lenny, Armo and Steven fought, and I thought Geary was particularly good as well. Schneider provided some dash, and Dempster is always solid. Can't say too much about the rest though.

By the way, does anyone still think Goddard should be out next captain? He's passionate, but at the time I thought he was too much of a hothead at times to be our captain. He's only proved that further to me this year.

 

[Terror Time]

Lenny should have been our captain all along... hope McEvoy continues to make strong inroads into his career and thus be our next captain

 

[Plugger35]

Is it true Goddard might be getting suspended????? What did he do???

He just gave one of the North players a light clip around the head, it didn't actually look that bad and he shouldn't be suspended but the North player dropped like a sack of spuds and then went off the ground so knowing how the MRP work these days he will probably cop a suspension.

The way Goddard is playing at the moment it probably wouldn't be a huge loss but I will still be pissed off if he gets done for that. The North players were baiting him all day and getting in his face so you have to give him credit for not full on belting them, I just wish he didn't get sucked into that shit and responded by playing some good football.

The same thing happened against Melbourne when he copped a hard tag and got put off his game, he needs to be better than that and just focus on playing his role for the team even if it's less than usual. When he loses his cool and just starts scrapping with players he is no good to the team at all and just drags us down, same goes for Milne today. As experienced players and leaders of the club it isn't good enough.

 

[Rors]

What i dont understand is that, as a coach, i would see the words "North Melbourne" & instantly the 2 players that would be first picked are Riewoldt, then Clint Jones... Why Clint Jones was omitted i cannot understand, given that Wells DESTROYED us... I hope Watters apologizes for this selection table error

 

[Plugger35]

Lenny should have been our captain all along... hope McEvoy continues to make strong inroads into his career and thus be our next captain

Yep McEvoy probably should be our next captain, he has a cool head on his shoulders and stood up today when we needed it to show some leadership. One of our best players today, pity some more of our players couldn't follow his lead.

I've been a supporter of Goddard being our next captain but with performances like today I'm losing faith.

 

[Zagg]

W

Yep McEvoy probably should be our next captain, he has a cool head on his shoulders and stood up today when we needed it to show some leadership. One of our best players today, pity some more of our players couldn't follow his lead.

I've been a supporter of Goddard being our next captain but with performances like today I'm losing faith.

What frustrates me with McEvoy is that his hitouts are aimless. In the 4th quarter he hit one 5 metres towards our goal where a North Melbourne player was in the clear ready to run to goal. He's really useful around the ground, particularly with his contested marking, but is just so far away from even being competitive in the ruck.

Today was easily our worst performance of the season. The first quarter wasn't too bad, but we lost our way in the second, got indisciplined, and completely lost all shape in the second half.

How many times did North attack through the corridor with barely any resistance? Our structure in defence/midfield was almost non-existent; when we turned it over in attack we were in trouble almost every time - much like the Richmond game earlier this year. Whilst there are some defensive flaws that can't be fixed this season (namely a KPD), we should at least make other teams work for their goals.

 

[Squizz]

Riewoldt looked OK to me, maybe not 100% but he was running OK and flying for marks.

Nah. He was stuffed mate - nowhere near fit. Towards the end, he was unable to go at any more than a jog - and certainly wasn't getting off the ground. A shadow of his normal self, and pulled out of a number of contests in the last quarter.

 

[Geronimo#]

Too many passengers really. Dal, Kosi, BJ, Gram, Milera, Milne, Saad really had little impact. Dal cops a heavy tag a lot now and it just takes his game away.
I think our biggest ptoblem is we dont bat deep enough in the guts. We would be stuffed if armo and jack hadent been coming through. We are one or two quality midfielders short. Jones or Ray should have played intstead of Milera but not as sub.

 

[Falchoon]

What i dont understand is that, as a coach, i would see the words "North Melbourne" & instantly the 2 players that would be first picked are Riewoldt, then Clint Jones... Why Clint Jones was omitted i cannot understand, given that Wells DESTROYED us... I hope Watters apologizes for this selection table error

Farren Ray

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Geez Raph was like heaven and hell both tonight.

 

[StFly]

Geez Raph was like heaven and hell both tonight.

It's indicative in a way, 2 quarters of footy we at least had movement and options available when rebounding from the back half, and with this came "good" Raph who made good decisions and generally vacated the back half. This dries up as North get on top over the ground and we "slow" to a crawl with providing said outlets and "bad" Raph comes along where the usual "no awareness" "laconic" "GTFO" calls are bandied about, yet for the 3rd and 4th we played very poorly as a team.

Good and bad Raph or good and bad Saints?