Preview Round 2, 2020: St.Kilda v Western Bulldogs - Marvel Stadium, Sunday 14th June, 6:05PM AEST

[plugger66]

I agree with everything you say, but think Finnis comments were probably put out there for the media to at least look at us.

He did exactly as he should.

 

[Grav]

Isn't there some sort of media thread for all this TV talk?

I wonder who is gonna line up on barroose?

I'd love to see battle v baroose all day, would be a ripping contest.

More than likely the Dougal & Baroose show.

 

[Hubnester]

That is absolute rubbish lewdogs. This is a contact sport and a team that has a 9 day break playing a team off a 6 day break has the odds stacked in their favour.

A 9 day break compared to a 6 day break could be comparable to one team having a bye and the other not.
What is your opinion of the stats on teams coming off the bye losing to teams who played the previous week - even when adjusting for 'expected' wins and losses? One data set from 2011 to 2017 showed that home teams which are expected to win most of the time will lost more often than not, coming off a bye when the opposition had played the previous week. Obviously a short time frame to test it since 2011 but the indications are there.

What evidence have you seen that makes you confident enough to call someone's opinion rubbish? Or was that just your hot take?

 

[PostmanBish]

Yeah, I know a few people who are fans who would watch it on FTA but wouldn't bother paying to watch. There are probably more half arsed fans than fanatics out there. That's why we never cash in on the vast army of Saints fans in the community.

I watch very little sport on TV, so just can't justify having Foxtel Sport ... if a game is on in Vic, I'm generally there, and sometimes when it's interstate too, if my schedule allows.

Would have been nice to manage one FTA game in 4 weeks (given a choice, it would have been the Richmond game, bundled with some MRV fundraising) ... that would have soothed the cravings for footy, and probably drawn a decent viewing audience.

 

[Palantine]

Not that simple. More likely a side or two would disappear. Or at the best be sent somewhere else. Tv rights are hugely important. Look at soccer in Australia.

Maybe, but they could be sent somewhere else but that would only reduce the tv ratings.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Palantine]

We just have to make ourselves too good to not watch. The TV networks are good at jumping on momentum and we have to for our own sanity start to provide some. Carlton are a huge supporter base when they fire, they always live in hope of them jumping up.

It’s a shame that even when we were winning big, our style was less than dynamic.


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[BrutThough]

IMO I thought Matt Finnis was very clever in the interview regarding FTA, not once did he complain that the AFL & Channel 7 were being unfair, but in bringing up the subject he put us right before their eyes. Hopefully the next group of matches will bear the fruit that Matt sowed.

It's going to be a very very bad look for the AFL if they dont even throw us one ch7 Sunday game in the next fixture.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s a shame that even when we were winning big, our style was less than dynamic.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

When you watch it now it looks dynamic. You realise how much footy has tightened up when you compare Ross Lyon era Saints compared to what we get today. We only had 2 games under 12 goals and in those we kicked over 10 behinds, a couple of games over 20 goals in 2009.

2009 St Kilda Football Club season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

If we have an additional 2 spots on the bench available, what should our strategy be for using them? Additional impact players like Parker / Hind, or midfield depth like Bytel?

Battle and Hind would be my 2.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

When you watch it now it looks dynamic. You realise how much footy has tightened up when you compare Ross Lyon era Saints compared to what we get today. We only had 2 games under 12 goals and in those we kicked over 10 behinds, a couple of games over 20 goals in 2009.

2009 St Kilda Football Club season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you.

12 goals or more in 20 out of 25 games
15 goals or more in about 50% of our games
9 games won by 7+ goals
4th highest scoring team for the year

Peoples memories have far more to do with the fact that we kept the opposition to 7 goals or less 10 times. People then assume our entire gamestyle was ultra defensive.

Ultra defensive teams don't have 3 players in the top 15 of the coleman (Roo 78, Kozy 48, Milne 46). People just got sick of watching us beat teams to a pulp each week and said that because teams cant score against us, we must be ultra defensive.

Looking at gamestyles, I would argue Richo was a much more conservative and defensive coach than Ross. At least Ross occasionally left a player in our attacking half of the ground to try and score.

That said, I do really miss the footy we played under GT. I still argue that 04/05 team was probably better (at least more talented) than 09/10. If only our fitness department was up to scratch

 

[gringo2011]

Thank you.

12 goals or more in 20 out of 25 games
15 goals or more in about 50% of our games
9 games won by 7+ goals
4th highest scoring team for the year

Peoples memories have far more to do with the fact that we kept the opposition to 7 goals or less 10 times. People then assume our entire gamestyle was ultra defensive.

Ultra defensive teams don't have 3 players in the top 15 of the coleman (Roo 78, Kozy 48, Milne 46). People just got sick of watching us beat teams to a pulp each week and said that because teams cant score against us, we must be ultra defensive.

Looking at gamestyles, I would argue Richo was a much more conservative and defensive coach than Ross. At least Ross occasionally left a player in our attacking half of the ground to try and score.

That said, I do really miss the footy we played under GT. I still argue that 04/05 team was probably better (at least more talented) than 09/10. If only our fitness department was up to scratch

The GT era was the last time pure free footy was played by the Saints. Paul Roos and even guys like Terry Wallace with his mega-flood changed the dynamics of the game. I loved that GT era, free flowing shoot outs where the best players went one on one and beat their direct opponent. Sides like Richmond aren't the best lists but they play stifling disciplined footy. It's a testament to certain strengths but less fun to watch.

 

[NeXus Nick]

A 9 day break compared to a 6 day break could be comparable to one team having a bye and the other not.
What is your opinion of the stats on teams coming off the bye losing to teams who played the previous week - even when adjusting for 'expected' wins and losses? One data set from 2011 to 2017 showed that home teams which are expected to win most of the time will lost more often than not, coming off a bye when the opposition had played the previous week. Obviously a short time frame to test it since 2011 but the indications are there.

What evidence have you seen that makes you confident enough to call someone's opinion rubbish? Or was that just your hot take?

What you think about the bye has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AND THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS FAIRNESS. It is just amateurish and selfishness on the part of the AFL to allow this to happen. ALL they are interested in is making profits so they can enjoy huge bonuses on top of the huge wages. I know it has been like this for years but THIS A IS A NEW LOW.

Just to be clear, Collingwood are playing on the Thursday and we are playing on the Sunday. THIS IS A NEW LOW FOR EVEN THE AFL and if I had anything to do with the St Kilda FC I would not stand for it. I would not be afraid to stand up to them and speak up whether they are keeping us afloat or not. In my opinion they are not even keeping us afloat anyway. What they are doing is slowly and systematically killing us off. This is just another example of it. Year after year we cop it up the backside regarding the FIXture. Always cop the most interstate trips. Always cop the s**t time-slots. Hardly ever get prime time TV exposure. Never get any standalone blockbusters. The shittest deal at Docklands. I'm ******* over it. And before anyone says we have been a poor team for the last decade, how come Melbourne get Blockbusters? How come Carlton keep getting the opening game of the season year after year when they have been as bad as we were in the 1970's and 1980's. You could even make an argument that they have been even worse.

This is why WE AS SUPPORTERS NEED TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. If we don't act soon (by soon I mean in the next 12 - 24 months), I fear that our fate will not be in our hands anymore. Our DEBT IS CURRENTLY $12MILL and if all reports are correct, that will be $20MILL BY THE END OF THIS SEASON. Once that happens nobody is going to remember that we were shafted year after year by the FIXture. Nobody is going to remember that we didn't get any Blockbusters, nobody is going to remember we got shafted with too many interstate games so the Collingwood could keep playing nearly every week in Melbourne, nobody is going to remember that we hardly got any games at the MCG because they wanted to Collingwood to play there all the time. Nobody will give a s**t either.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

What you think about the bye has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AND THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS FAIRNESS. It is just amateurish and selfishness on the part of the AFL to allow this to happen. ALL they are interested in is making profits so they can enjoy huge bonuses on top of the huge wages. I know it has been like this for years but THIS A IS A NEW LOW.

Just to be clear, Collingwood are playing on the Thursday and we are playing on the Sunday. THIS IS A NEW LOW FOR EVEN THE AFL and if I had anything to do with the St Kilda FC I would not stand for it. I would not be afraid to stand up to them and speak up whether they are keeping us afloat or not. In my opinion they are not even keeping us afloat anyway. What they are doing is slowly and systematically killing us off. This is just another example of it. Year after year we cop it up the backside regarding the FIXture. Always cop the most interstate trips. Always cop the s**t time-slots. Hardly ever get prime time TV exposure. Never get any standalone blockbusters. The shittest deal at Docklands. I'm ******* over it. And before anyone says we have been a poor team for the last decade, how come Melbourne get Blockbusters? How come Carlton keep getting the opening game of the season year after year when they have been as bad as we were in the 1970's and 1980's. You could even make an argument that they have been even worse.

This is why WE AS SUPPORTERS NEED TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. If we don't act soon (by soon I mean in the next 12 - 24 months), I fear that our fate will not be in our hands anymore. Our DEBT IS CURRENTLY $12MILL and if all reports are correct, that will be $20MILL BY THE END OF THIS SEASON. Once that happens nobody is going to remember that we were shafted year after year by the FIXture. Nobody is going to remember that we didn't get any Blockbusters, nobody is going to remember we got shafted with too many interstate games so the Collingwood could keep playing nearly every week in Melbourne, nobody is going to remember that we hardly got any games at the MCG because they wanted to Collingwood to play there all the time. Nobody will give a s**t either.

Do you think you might be overreacting slightly?

St.Kilda "only" getting a 6 day break for a home and away fixture seems a curious hill to die on. Did you put a stack of $$ on us to win? If so, you should have taken the $2 for us to beat Carlton, not the $3 to beat Collingwood. Carlton being putrid is a much safer bet

Anyway if you are really that concerned, I genuinely fear for your wellbeing if several teams are forced to quarantine and this ultimately results in mid-week matches on 3 or 4 day turnarounds

 

[plugger66]

The GT era was the last time pure free footy was played by the Saints. Paul Roos and even guys like Terry Wallace with his mega-flood changed the dynamics of the game. I loved that GT era, free flowing shoot outs where the best players went one on one and beat their direct opponent. Sides like Richmond aren't the best lists but they play stifling disciplined footy. It's a testament to certain strengths but less fun to watch.

Harsh on our style in 09. We had the best defence and the fourth best attack. I don’t think it about gt and his coaching, it was just footy back then. I’ve got to I’d rather win a grand final playing crap footy than lose a prelim playing attacking footy

 

[plugger66]

What you think about the bye has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AND THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS FAIRNESS. It is just amateurish and selfishness on the part of the AFL to allow this to happen. ALL they are interested in is making profits so they can enjoy huge bonuses on top of the huge wages. I know it has been like this for years but THIS A IS A NEW LOW.

Just to be clear, Collingwood are playing on the Thursday and we are playing on the Sunday. THIS IS A NEW LOW FOR EVEN THE AFL and if I had anything to do with the St Kilda FC I would not stand for it. I would not be afraid to stand up to them and speak up whether they are keeping us afloat or not. In my opinion they are not even keeping us afloat anyway. What they are doing is slowly and systematically killing us off. This is just another example of it. Year after year we cop it up the backside regarding the FIXture. Always cop the most interstate trips. Always cop the s**t time-slots. Hardly ever get prime time TV exposure. Never get any standalone blockbusters. The shittest deal at Docklands. I'm ******* over it. And before anyone says we have been a poor team for the last decade, how come Melbourne get Blockbusters? How come Carlton keep getting the opening game of the season year after year when they have been as bad as we were in the 1970's and 1980's. You could even make an argument that they have been even worse.

This is why WE AS SUPPORTERS NEED TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. If we don't act soon (by soon I mean in the next 12 - 24 months), I fear that our fate will not be in our hands anymore. Our DEBT IS CURRENTLY $12MILL and if all reports are correct, that will be $20MILL BY THE END OF THIS SEASON. Once that happens nobody is going to remember that we were shafted year after year by the FIXture. Nobody is going to remember that we didn't get any Blockbusters, nobody is going to remember we got shafted with too many interstate games so the Collingwood could keep playing nearly every week in Melbourne, nobody is going to remember that we hardly got any games at the MCG because they wanted to Collingwood to play there all the time. Nobody will give a s**t either.

Wowee. I don’t believe there is any bonus this year. This year is all about Foxtel and channel 7. We need great rating or they are going to ask for a fortune back. That does not help us or north. We are the 2 clubs in the gun. Forget Gold Coast or gws. There will be 2 clubs in both states but will there be 10 in Victoria.

 

[SufferingS8INT]

First post since our horrid Round 1 Performance. That game broke me. I was so excited to see the ‘new’ Saints, but all I saw was the same old, set shot missing, underwhelming, weak saints of old.

I’ll watch the game, but they need to give me a reason to be passionate again. Otherwise I’d rather spend what little spare time I have doing something that doesn’t make me want to punch s**t.

 

[gringo2011]

Harsh on our style in 09. We had the best defence and the fourth best attack. I don’t think it about gt and his coaching, it was just footy back then. I’ve got to I’d rather win a grand final playing crap footy than lose a prelim playing attacking footy

I think we all would, you can still enjoy the old days though. It was a beautiful game in it's old form. Today it has lost some of the enjoyment that it used to have.

 

[plugger66]

I think we all would, you can still enjoy the old days though. It was a beautiful game in it's old form. Today it has lost some of the enjoyment that it used to have.

Yet most kids who have grown up on the defensive game love it. I have feeling if we were winning 10 in row this year we would love it as much as 2004. It’s like when people say marvel has no atmosphere. It’s same ground as when Gardiner took that mark and wool Kicked that goal. Never heard a roar like it in a home and away game.

 

[mightymalaka]

First post since our horrid Round 1 Performance. That game broke me. I was so excited to see the ‘new’ Saints, but all I saw was the same old, set shot missing, underwhelming, weak saints of old.

I’ll watch the game, but they need to give me a reason to be passionate again. Otherwise I’d rather spend what little spare time I have doing something that doesn’t make me want to punch s**t.

Yes Rd 1 was pretty ordinary all round!
Punching Sh!t sounds worse though!
If you want to avoid suffering anymore, i would advise to keep the punching to a minimum! I think that may have been what broke you my friend!

 

[gringo2011]

Yet most kids who have grown up on the defensive game love it. I have feeling if we were winning 10 in row this year we would love it as much as 2004. It’s like when people say marvel has no atmosphere. It’s same ground as when Gardiner took that mark and wool Kicked that goal. Never heard a roar like it in a home and away game.

I don't know if the kids love it as much as we did. My son only half gives a s**t these days. He'd rather watch soccer. Most of his friends are the same, all grew up on footy with footy mad parents. I got him reasonably hyped for this season promising that we wouldn't be as s**t, he walked out of the room after North started to turn the game around, said we'd lose and never came back to watch just calling out to see if we were still ******* it up. He has a toe in now but I doubt he'll go to games when he gets older. He only knows us being s**t, he was 4 years old last time we were any good, to him they are some kind of endurance that he has to tolerate because of tradition, not a passion. It's like an agnostic kid being forced to go to church.

My mate who is a massive Hawks fan, his kids don't care about footy and they have had nothing but success in their lifetime, same with a Geelong family we know.

 

[NeXus Nick]

Do you think you might be overreacting slightly?

St.Kilda "only" getting a 6 day break for a home and away fixture seems a curious hill to die on. Did you put a stack of $$ on us to win? If so, you should have taken the $2 for us to beat Carlton, not the $3 to beat Collingwood. Carlton being putrid is a much safer bet

Anyway if you are really that concerned, I genuinely fear for your wellbeing if several teams are forced to quarantine and this ultimately results in mid-week matches on 3 or 4 day turnarounds

No I am not overreacting and you missed my point. It has nothing to do with your 6 day break. It has everything to do with the fact that we always play Collingwood with a disadvantage. They usually have 2 days on us, but this time they have 3 DAYS!!!!!

As I said, this is only one element of the overall aim of the AFL to kill off the smaller teams. It doesn't seem like much but when you add our FIXture, s**t time-slots, interstate travel, no standalone Blockbusters you end up in our position. While we were getting extra funding everyone thought we would be okay. But now with COVID-19 our debt is going to sky rocket and nobody will remember or even give a * that we helped payoff that stupid Docklands stadium.

 

[George]

Imagine if we were one of the four clubs that had to relocate to another state.

Having a shorter break than Collingwood as reasoning for some kind of AFL conspiracy to kill us off...that's definitely a new one.

 

[mightymalaka]

I don't know if the kids love it as much as we did. My son only half gives a s**t these days. He'd rather watch soccer. Most of his friends are the same, all grew up on footy with footy mad parents. I got him reasonably hyped for this season promising that we wouldn't be as s**t, he walked out of the room after North started to turn the game around, said we'd lose and never came back to watch just calling out to see if we were still ******* it up. He has a toe in now but I doubt he'll go to games when he gets older. He only knows us being s**t, he was 4 years old last time we were any good, to him they are some kind of endurance that he has to tolerate because of tradition, not a passion. It's like an agnostic kid being forced to go to church.

My mate who is a massive Hawks fan, his kids don't care about footy and they have had nothing but success in their lifetime, same with a Geelong family we know.

Your mates kids sound like most Hawks fans!
They are not worthy i say!

 

[The_Steadier]

If we have an additional 2 spots on the bench available, what should our strategy be for using them? Additional impact players like Parker / Hind, or midfield depth like Bytel?

Still the same number of rotations though right? 80 or whatever?

If so I can't imagine much thought will go into who the extras are... just whoever was going to be an emergency, now gets a game.

 

[CaptainRisky]

It's going to be a very very bad look for the AFL if they dont even throw us one ch7 Sunday game in the next fixture.

Why is is going to be a very very bad look , the only people that will notice are us Saints supporters , you dont really think any one else will give a stuff do you