Autopsy Round 23, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Western Bulldogs

[Monsterdarlz]

Diabolical year gone backwards after a relatively positive last year. Admittedly bad luck with Yeo, waterman and gov injuries.

Coaching setup is a mess first priority has to be to surround mini with some actual help.

List is still too green going forward to next year even if Harley and Hewett elevate they can't do it them selves Davies, Gross, Bo Allan, next year's draft crop is still 2/3 seasons off hitting the 50-100 game mark i fear we are cooked for atleast the next two seasons and it can get worse

 

[Smotie2]

It’s funny, the last four years we have won more games than this year each year but this year actually was the start I think of the way back… some players are actually developing, we have got a game style that’s being ingrained in the players and we have not had a 100 pointer (touch wood) loss… combine that and some garbage injuries to our most important players and we have escaped not totally destitute at least.

Would have loved gross to get more midfield time, Edwards has improved, sandy Brock looks someone to work with, shanahan is our next full forward jet, hewetts really had his first year. Reid will get better, McCarthy looks the goods, ginbey will be better when not a key back… there are signs and those signs really show up the garbage of Duggan, cole, Kelly, Williams Owies, Cripps and Ryan . If the club had guts they would chuck them all out.

They don't have the guts mate

 

[Pwani Magharibi]

Positives: Saw Guy McKenna outside the ground and it briefly reminded me of some of our glory years when we had a footy team you could be proud of.
Negatives: Pretty much everything that happened once we were in the stadium.

I've been a very loyal fan throughout this last four and a half years of manure, but it's getting harder. Sitting through our last two games at Docklands for cumulative losses of 30 goals has me questioning whether we renew our Victorian Eagles membership next season. We desperately need to retain Harley and somehow get some better footballers into the club and see some tangible improvement in 2026.

 

[Elite Pete]

It’s funny, the last four years we have won more games than this year each year but this year actually was the start I think of the way back… some players are actually developing, we have got a game style that’s being ingrained in the players and we have not had a 100 pointer (touch wood) loss… combine that and some garbage injuries to our most important players and we have escaped not totally destitute at least.

Would have loved gross to get more midfield time, Edwards has improved, sandy Brock looks someone to work with, shanahan is our next full forward jet, hewetts really had his first year. Reid will get better, McCarthy looks the goods, ginbey will be better when not a key back… there are signs and those signs really show up the garbage of Duggan, cole, Kelly, Williams Owies, Cripps and Ryan . If the club had guts they would chuck them all out.

Agreed. Huge year in the offseason for both list management and Mini to get his men in.

Could’ve, should’ve, would’ve had 4-5 wins this year, sadly we don’t and its changed the narrative.

I think while there are questions marks we have a lot more ticks this year for players who will be around the club in 5 years.

If you had your best 23 on the board for 3 years time, id have 9 that are absolutely AFL final quality players. (Hough, Ginbey, HEdwards, Baker, Harley, Hewett, Waterman, Shanahan, McCarthy). With possibly pick 1 + 2 and maybe 8 to come. That should be 12.

And in that time the hope would be Reid, Gross, Grego, Davis, Allan, JWill and co have joined them. Plus the thinking of getting some free agents and trades that are best 23.

 

[RedWeddingGuest]

Depressing thread. Here's my take:

The seeds for what we have become were planted 5 or 6 years ago (at least), well before Waterman changed from being a hot and cold fringe player into the effective spearhead he is now (when he's not injured).

The real art/skill in AFL – seriously – is being able to master the Draft and all aspects of player trading and recruitment. Some clubs are far better at it than others. Geelong, Collingwood, Adelaide and Brisbane, and probably Hawthorn, do it well; Geelong best of all. These teams don't get much of a leg up (if any) from the AFL– they just happen to have worked out how the draft/trading game is played. WCE have not been good at it. The TK deal is a good example. We are getting better at it, I think, but we're starting from a low base.

There's no point in complaining about the cards we're dealt; we have to play them the best we can. All clubs have injuries, and all have kids desperate to get a game. Nine teams in Victoria doesn't affect us: all that means is a larger number of clubs are competing against each other for a finite number of potential members, possible Victorian draftees, etc.

So, the old IT saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies to footy clubs as it does to everything else. How did we get the players we have now (many of whom would never get a game at another club)? By bad draft and recruiting decisions, it seems to me. THAT is what we should be concentrating on. If our recruiting staff aren't good enough, sack them and get the best. If we recruit well, we'll start moving up the ladder – but it'll take 2 to 3 years at least.

 

[Coasters7]

Chesser with so many years on our list and finally injury free should be flying by now if he's AFL quality. Just isn't.

Very very long way from the worst player on the list

 

[rebel23]

Positive... I was only able to watch the first two minutes of the game due to other commitments

Negative... Way too many apparently... When does the head coach come into Question here given so many players have regressed?

It seems players (by their performance) have less respect for him than they did in Simmo

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

One weird thing about this match is that statistically, we didn’t get dominated nearly as badly as we often do. “Only” lost the disposal count by 38, inside 50s were not a complete rout (58-42), we actually won the stoppage clearances. And this is against one of the strongest and deepest midfields in the comp. But then we got absolutely belted on the scoreboard.

Guess it boils down to no composure or vision or skill (whatever you want to call it) going forward whereas the Dogs were much better in that area.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

One weird thing about this match is that statistically, we didn’t get dominated nearly as badly as we often do. “Only” lost the disposal count by 38, inside 50s were not a complete rout (58-42), we actually won the stoppage clearances. And this is against one of the strongest and deepest midfields in the comp. But then we got absolutely belted on the scoreboard.

Guess it boils down to no composure or vision or skill (whatever you want to call it) going forward whereas the Dogs were much better in that area.

While I didn't watch this game, the connection between our midfielders and forwards (or lack thereof) has been something I've been banging on about all year. Deplorable stuff.

 

[Bushhopper]

Depressing thread. Here's my take:

The seeds for what we have become were planted 5 or 6 years ago (at least), well before Waterman changed from being a hot and cold fringe player into the effective spearhead he is now (when he's not injured).

The real art/skill in AFL – seriously – is being able to master the Draft and all aspects of player trading and recruitment. Some clubs are far better at it than others. Geelong, Collingwood, Adelaide and Brisbane, and probably Hawthorn, do it well; Geelong best of all. These teams don't get much of a leg up (if any) from the AFL– they just happen to have worked out how the draft/trading game is played. WCE have not been good at it. The TK deal is a good example. We are getting better at it, I think, but we're starting from a low base.

There's no point in complaining about the cards we're dealt; we have to play them the best we can. All clubs have injuries, and all have kids desperate to get a game. Nine teams in Victoria doesn't affect us: all that means is a larger number of clubs are competing against each other for a finite number of potential members, possible Victorian draftees, etc.

So, the old IT saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies to footy clubs as it does to everything else. How did we get the players we have now (many of whom would never get a game at another club)? By bad draft and recruiting decisions, it seems to me. THAT is what we should be concentrating on. If our recruiting staff aren't good enough, sack them and get the best. If we recruit well, we'll start moving up the ladder – but it'll take 2 to 3 years at least.

Fantastic post.

 

[amazingjoshy]

+we won the hitouts
+maybe some will realise how pointless that stat (and position) is

- this performance was so entirely predictable

Post in thread 'Round 23, 2025: Changes vs Western Bulldogs' https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ges-vs-western-bulldogs.1399743/post-89106341

 

[UseR2006]

One weird thing about this match is that statistically, we didn’t get dominated nearly as badly as we often do. “Only” lost the disposal count by 38, inside 50s were not a complete rout (58-42), we actually won the stoppage clearances. And this is against one of the strongest and deepest midfields in the comp. But then we got absolutely belted on the scoreboard.

Guess it boils down to no composure or vision or skill (whatever you want to call it) going forward whereas the Dogs were much better in that area.

It's also how they used the ball that hurt us the most, they went from inside to outside much more effectively and they used their talls in their forward half much more effectively.

It also hurt that they could kick the easy goals and we missed pretty much all of them.

They also worked harder to spread from contest.

So while the numbers looked OK they were also a little deceiving.

 

[Balls In]

Club is ****ed as far as the eye can see, let's not delude ourselves. From a list perspective we're probably only now bottoming out, after this year's retirements we only have about 10 AFL adjacent players on our entire list. Meanwhile we can argue the likes of Chesser until the cows come home.

 

[amazingjoshy]

One weird thing about this match is that statistically, we didn’t get dominated nearly as badly as we often do. “Only” lost the disposal count by 38, inside 50s were not a complete rout (58-42), we actually won the stoppage clearances. And this is against one of the strongest and deepest midfields in the comp. But then we got absolutely belted on the scoreboard.

Guess it boils down to no composure or vision or skill (whatever you want to call it) going forward whereas the Dogs were much better in that area.

This was hugely noticeable at the game. Even Dogs supporters around me were saying "they're not actually that bad" and its just stupid, basic mistakes mainly going forward.

 

[UseR2006]

I'd also highly recommend watching Mini's presser post match. It's clear he's frustrated but also that he knows all these issues and what's required to fix them.
Feel much more confident that we'll be OK in the long term.

 

[Ace McKane]

Chesser with so many years on our list and finally injury free should be flying by now if he's AFL quality. Just isn't.

I wouldn't say flying but in the past month he has played career best footy. He is close to the #1 example of a player West Coast's bad business, lack of player development and poor coaching has ruined. We can see the potential of him being an important cog in this side is there, and I think at this point criticism is better directed at the club that has failed in the development of him and many others.

 

[Turky909]

probably 10 years away still from another finals birth

 

[Bushhopper]

probably 10 years away still from another finals birth

And Flagmantle will still be trying to get their first premiership

 

[thebutterflyeffect]

Chesser with so many years on our list and finally injury free should be flying by now if he's AFL quality. Just isn't.

Chess has only been on the list one year more than Hewett. Wouldn't say Hewett is streets ahead of him

 

[Rowan18]

What's with all the melts? Have some of you only just realise we've been bad this season? Did you think we were likely to win?

I'd hoped we could run them close for a bit but that didn't happen. Oh well. Last week showed the potential of the list, this week shows how much work there is left to do.

I'm excited to see what McQualter can do with a big off season. Get his chosen coaching team in place, cut the dead wood off the list and get the young kids bigger through a big summer in the gym.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

The real art/skill in AFL – seriously – is being able to master the Draft and all aspects of player trading and recruitment. Some clubs are far better at it than others. Geelong, Collingwood, Adelaide and Brisbane, and probably Hawthorn, do it well; Geelong best of all. These teams don't get much of a leg up (if any) from the AFL– they

Gee.

Collingwood a piss poor drafting side to be clear, if you check their drafts dating back to 2018 or so.

Cats/Pies live off father son and go home more than anybody. The team we played today another father son bandit.

Brisbane QLD academy and FS means they could well be back to back Grand Finalists and get the best kid in each draft.

Not much of a leg up indeed.

 

[Westend]

probably 10 years away still from another finals birth

Nah we will play finals again in the next 10 years but this list will go nowhere near a grand final

 

[Smotie2]

I'd also highly recommend watching Mini's presser post match. It's clear he's frustrated but also that he knows all these issues and what's required to fix them.
Feel much more confident that we'll be OK in the long term.

Not sure I'll be alive in 2050 when we are "ok"

 

[Turky909]

Nah we will play finals again in the next 10 years but this list will go nowhere near a grand final

That would be enough for me after these 4 years of chaos.

 

[maverick001]

Tough game to keep any interest in, so to for the players by the looks of it.

Chesser appears to have extended his career by a year, well done, it was very much looking over.

Excited for an afl pre season for mccarthy and to see what year 2 looks like for shanahan. Genuine positives in a dark year.

Ginbey a shining light all year. Commentary discussing him going back in the middle. Forget that.

Davis as a first year player shows real potential as a modern winger, definitely persist.

This side (and harley) desperately need hewett to become an A grade mid. Jury is out but you can see it.

Hall has a low afl ceiling. Will need to work real hard to be a clearance beast. Would like to see him tackle more and defend better.

Not sure what to make of bazzo. Doesn't have the athletic profile of a brock or ginbey. Doesn't have the size of an Edwards/barrass. Not a naturally aggressive competitor like a ginbey or Edwards. Yet to show hes an elite interceptor or lock down. May end up being a depth KPD.

One more to go, thank F.

This is basically all the things I was going to say
Davis I think makes it, #1 requirement for wingman is read the play and he has no trouble with that
Great 2 weeks for Chesser, no way he’s delisted after that
Ginbey is a beast
I think Hewett becomes a good high half forward. Doesn’t seem to impact centre bounce stoppages at all but can be dangerous at other stoppages. Can find it in transition and has goal sense. But it is possible with better fitness and strength he becomes a full time mid
Hall I’m not sold on at all. Makes bad errors. But still needs to be given more opportunity