Autopsy Round 4 = GWS 66-64 Collingwood

[unplugged]

Not having Treloar in the side is amplified when the likes of a DeBoer is hanging off Sidebottom at every contest.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Not having Treloar in the side is amplified when the likes of a DeBoer is hanging off Sidebottom at every contest.

Adams the only one with mongrel in the mids
Need Greenwood back.

Also, would be great to see another option down back and have Maynard on the ball for spells. He played there against the dees 2017 and tore them up. We are too polite.

 

[Drought Break]

I think Patton is one we should of went after, his best is definitely quality the injury history his biggest issue.

Also think Sam Day (GC) would make a good forward for us better then what we have anyway in Cox/Cameron. Brings a lot more to the table in his overall game.

Also annoys me how we default our one top 5 KPF draftee to defence and have left him there even if he is AA quality defender I have no doubt he would be an AA quality forward which imo are much harder to find.

we would probably have had to give up 2 x first round draft picks for Patton unlike the Hawks who got him for about pick 96.

 

[loki04]

we would probably have had to give up 2 x first round draft picks for Patton unlike the Hawks who got him for about pick 96.

haha no doubt just look at our recent trade history on Murray and Beams et el...

 

[TradeDraft]

haha no doubt just look at our recent trade history on Murray and Beams et el...

and Look how GWS played Hard Ball with Adams and Treloar

 

[anshell]

You just need perspective. We lost by 2 pts to GWS who regained Green and kelly and played them at home. We played poorly yet should have won save from poor goal kicking. It’s our first loss and we haven’t played any horrible teams. Losing Howe sucks but Richmond managed without rance we can to. look at the positives. Losing the GF and prelim by 1 goal sucks, but atlwast we’ve been there as still are. We have good depth and can and still will push for this years flag.

I just can’t fathom the negatively from losing by 2 pts to last years runners up from some in this forum given we’ve been great so far. all I’ve seen this year is our best is good enough to win the flag. No team will go undefeated during the year and most will suffer atlwast one huge injury.

The comp is tough, Carlton beat geel at home, there no easy games and some people expect to win every game by 10goals.

If we were flogged by 10 goals then maybe I can understand criticisms, but geeze.

Great post.You'd think we lost the game by 100 points the way some people are carrying on here.I don't think we are that far off it to be honest,but we do have problems with out bottom six,they're just not good enough in my opinion.Players like Mayne.Phillips and C Brown just don't have A.F.L standard kicking skills and they kill us time after time.Others like Noble and Wills seem to be just good ordinary V.F.L standard players.We have some more talented players running around in the reserves at the moment who should be given a go in the seniors in the coming weeks.I'm talking about players like Treloar,(obviously).Sier.Quanor,Rantall,Varcoe,and Greenwood(if he's fit enough)

 

[Captivating]

What a nonsense.

Pretty sure we chased Tom Lynch hard while Buckley was coach. Effective tall forwards aren't that easy to find. Look at players like McCartin, Patton, Schache, all of whom have had top 3 draft picks utilised on them, for very little return.

Ben Brown is an exception, but recent excellent tall forwards have often come from priority draft selections - Lynch (GCS), Cameron (GWS) which we haven't had access too

and look at the AFL goal kicking at present
- Tom Papley, Harry Perryman, Charlie Cameron, Toby Greene......Brodie Mihocek
We've actually got the highest scoring tall forward in the competition playing for us and he is a rookie selection.

There are not that many high scoring tall forwards in the competition. Guys like Riewoldt and Hawkins have been around forever.

The next generation are the King boys at GCS and St Kilda, both of whom were top 6 draft picks and you don't get too many of them when you keep finishing Top 4.

This is not an easily solvable problem with a salary cap and without top 10 draft picks. Maybe we revert to Darcy Moore as an option again once Will Kelly comes on. But Darcy is currently a star down back and helps set up our miserly defence.

You have to spend...we haven't been willing to spend. Why we need a plethora of small forwards....we can easily afford to offload one or two of JDG, WHE, Milochek, Elliot to get a KP Forward

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

With the stats in the last plus gimme goals from Maynard/Moore clangers, Roughead free etc.......we absolutely robbed ourselves of that game against one of the tougher teams to play at home. So barring Howe going down it could be a lot worse I guess.

Can anyone comment on how Murphy is tracking? He's no Howe obviously but if we can't bring in Clangers , surely he's worth a shot ahead of Madgen? Infinitely more upside and should be serviceable early days.

 

[Piesinmyeyes]

Just joined the conversation here, anybody would think our season was over due to the doom n gloom.
We had sooooo many players out of touch last night yet lost by 2 points.
Lots n lots of up scope on that performance.
We don’t need wholesale changes just yet a little tinkering at this stage.
Look forward to us having a fresh Treloar and maybe a look at our talented youth in the next few rounds.
I’m still confident, go pies

 

[stormskye]

Just joined the conversation here, anybody would think our season was over due to the doom n gloom.
We had sooooo many players out of touch last night yet lost by 2 points.
Lots n lots of up scope on that performance.
We don’t need wholesale changes just yet a little tinkering at this stage.
Look forward to us having a fresh Treloar and maybe a look at our talented youth in the next few rounds.
I’m still confident, go pies

Tell me about it . we are def top 4 material, and have some good depth allowing changes if needbe. Not many teams have ready made replacements like we do. Treloar is huuuge in, absoulte huge. minor tweaks and we be good. if not for poor goal kicking we’d remain undefeated. rich got FLOGGED by hawks, carlton beat geel at geel, Gold Coast FLOGGED eagles, I mean no games easy. Not to mention port have only played gc, freo and adel!

 

[rand corp]

Tyler, isn't ready, good to get a few games into him and obviously we see a big future for the kid but, he isn't giving us enough at the moment.
Callum, is developing well but still a kid and still capable of having a shocker
Daicos, Started the season in his best ever form but, when the heat was on he was gone
Cox, does he give us enough? First game back so needs another couple of weeks to answer that question, we have very few options if he fails
Mayne had a shocker
Phillips, see Mayne
WHE, needs to do more
Wills, love his bullocking work but isn't creative/effective/damaging enough when he gets ball in hand

Our forward line was well beaten and our mids were not much better. Our backline has been our savior this season but, if we continue putting them under siege it will be a war of attrition and we will run out of fit cattle.

Wills is too limited, an in-form Sier provides much more creativity and opens the game up much more, (to our advantage) he deserves a shot.
Treloar has to come back in.
Greenwood is missed.
Phillips on a wing, WHE on a HFF, NOT the other way around, stop pi$$ing about.

 

[sr36]

You obviously haven't seen much of Sier - he's a great reader of the ball in stoppages, doesn't fumble, quick thinker and has great vision. He is a massive upgrade on Wills.

He's got all the tools, but his issue is that he's an inside mid who doesn't hunt the footy and instead stands flat footed waiting for the ball to come to him. If he becomes proactive, we'll have a gun on our hands. But if he doesn't change his style, I don't think he will make it.

 

[sr36]

Getting a bit sick of the Sidebottom can shake a tag talk through the media, despite the numbers indicating as such - it’s time we made life tough for the taggers. They seem to get a free ride.

Hopefully Greenwood is back in this side soon, send him on the ball and provide some protection. People need to block and help Steele out.

My view is that Sidey doesn't have the skillset to shake a good tagger. When he cops one, he won't be a star, but will still shade his man. Plus we should be able to use him being tagged to disrupt the oppositions system and structure - this disruption is the main reason why taggers aren't very popular at the moment, employing a tagger ultimately means that your defensive structure and outposts for transition are one man down. We just can't rely on his attacking output when he's being tagged, but he can still be crucial.

 

[jackcass]

His opponent spent most of the time lurking a few metres behind him (in the last quarter) with no apparent desire to touch the ball let alone attack it as if his life depended upon it.

Maybe the midfield could have identified he was leading toward goal instead of at them and weighted their kicks to suit that rather than habitually shallow. He had a poor night but wasn’t helped.

 

[jackcass]

Because for some reason we thought bombing the ball inside F50 was the way to go, because we had Coxy back. Unfortunately Coxy couldn't catch a thing, was out positioned everytime, and was going for marks with one hand up above his head.
Do not understand why you would bring in a 7ft guy, for a night game, in winter where more than likely it will be wet and dewy, and then change the dynamic of the foward line, to where we play this horrible bombing of the ball inside F50 game.
Stick to the smaller forwards, with Mihocek as the tall forward, clear the F50 space for Stephenson and DeGoey to lead into, as both are quick of the mark, and kick the ball lower. Haynes had about 10 Christmases last night, it was so annoying.
Also the selection of the side, why change the dynamic of the forward line, that worked well the week before, and yet not strengthen the midfield with one of our best mids in Treloar, who was fit and played well in the scratch match the week prior.

I’m not that fussed about the inclusion of Cox. Think he currently offers more than Cameron. Clunked 1 f50 contested mark and converted. His marking contests also enabled (at least) 1 of Checkers goals from a front and Centre crump, and he was involved in at least 1 of the Phillips snaps, and his tap set up the Daicos tackle and goal. Add that his ruckwork was generally pretty good although he could have done more in that uncontested back pocket ruck contest that ultimately led to a goal to them. He played his role

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

I like the optimism, but each time Cox doesn't impact (which is a lot), the ball usually zips back for a goal as there is no pressure on their defense. Most players don't even care if he's on the mark as they usually play on around him.
In my eyes, majority of the match, the Pies pretty much are playing one man down when Cox is in the side and like the Cloke effect, the team becomes predictable.

Shame to pick on the guy as he tries...but it's so painful when looking to challenge for a flag....

Kennedy
Darling
Reiwoldt (2017 version)
Lynch

........Reid , Cox , Cameron

 

[loki04]

Is Callum Brown safe afternoon that game?

How about Daicos?

thoughts anyone?

Think Daicos is progressing well should be keeping his spot and club aiming to get as much AFL experience as possible.

Callum I think should hold his spot, obviously needs to be told to always kick through the ball. Much rather we persist with him then default back to a 28 yo Thomas or WHE or other late 20s player who is equally quiet.

Tyler is not ready, he's had a taste now needs to go back and develop his game and body.

 

[sr36]

Maybe the midfield could have identified he was leading toward goal instead of at them and weighted their kicks to suit that rather than habitually shallow. He had a poor night but wasn’t helped.

Maybe WHE (JDG too) can become better at reading the play and identify that leaching out the back in the hope of receiving a kick over the top is stupid when things are tight and the defender is under pressure and just hacking it forward for field position.

You can't position for clean incisive transition, when the opposition aren't allowing it, particularly when it's your man who intercepts without a contest over and over again.

 

[jackcass]

GWS brought back Greene and Kelly who unarguably had a massive impact on the result and were in the best players. Timing is everything. On the flip side they were down a few on the bench in the end but held tough against the onslaught.

I’m not sure teams will be as impacted by losing players in game this year with shorter quarters and longer breaks. Be interesting to see how it plays out across the season but we’ve had 2 examples this round already to support that.

 

[loki04]

Few gloomy outlooks around.

Let me ask you off the evidence shown, what areas do you think we have improved on since season 2018?

 

[No SPIN]

I like Sier and I'd like to see him in the team and that probably does come at Wills' expense, however I'm not seeing what makes him so much better than Rupert. Re-watch the game, a number of times last night Wills was the only guy on our team to actually take a tackle and get his arms free, rather than just dropping the ball like most did. IMO Wills has pretty good vision and he was relatively clean last night compared to some, plus his tackling and pressure acts are probably rated pretty highly internally. It also seems that most people seem to be judging Sier off what he did in late 2018, the coaches obviously think he still has some stuff to work on.

Here's a link to Siers highlights - note at 10.38 Gary Lyon says he could the next Josh Kennedy of the Swans.

 

[jackcass]

You obviously haven't seen much of Sier - he's a great reader of the ball in stoppages, doesn't fumble, quick thinker and has great vision. He is a massive upgrade on Wills.

If Sier didn’t have limitations he’d be in the senior side ahead of Wills because he’s certainly got better skills. His limitations seem to be mainly between the ears but they’re no less limitations.

 

[jmac70]

Let me ask you off the evidence shown, what areas do you think we have improved on since season 2018?

Do you want me to compare this season so far to the whole of 2018? Doesn’t seem fair.

 

[loki04]

Here's a link to Siers highlights - note at 10.38 Gary Lyon says he could the next Josh Kennedy of the Swans.

yeah he needs to come in and just be persisted with, for what ever reason many on here and in coaches box seem to have sooo much more leeway with other players (Wills, WHE, Mayne, Elliott, JT, Browns x2) then he is afforded from game to game.

 

[jackcass]

You said effort was poor and we were outworked as I highlighted in your post.
If you don't understand that contested possession is an "effort" stat then I can't help you.
To add to the point We were +15 in tackles and +10 in Fwd 50 tackles, so I can't see your point.

We were definitely outworked. Just about every close shot of the play showed GWS getting to those contests in numbers well before us. Tackles a case in point. You only get to do that if you’re 2nd to the footy. They were also a lot cleaner in their ball handling and more disciplined in their structures.