Preview Round 5- Lions v Bulldogs, Etihad stadium, Saturday 22nd April 1.45pm.

[troppo]

You are kidding me aren't you? How on earth could they not pick Close? Looks like it's another week of having a light weight and dysfunctional forward line. I'm tipping a 10+ goal loss

 

[Harris Specter]

You are kidding me aren't you? How on earth could they not pick Close? Looks like it's another week of having a light weight and dysfunctional forward line. I'm tipping a 10+ goal loss

Could be the week Bulldogs finally get it right. I'm tipping it to be an ugly affair honestly. Their defence will mop with ease.

Not sure I agree at all with the current forward line set up. Very very inexperienced.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Football? What Football? At Festival Hall waiting for Courtney Barnett and then Patti Smith to come on. Excitement.

 

[a mayes ing]

Can only assume the reason Close isn't in is because he reserves players have to play really well to get a promotion. If they play average in the NEAFL then that is how they will play in the seniors. Make Close fully earn it before he gets a go, l like it as it sets a higher standard on playing in the 1sts instead of 1 alright game and then in.

 

[M Malice]

Can only assume the reason Close isn't in is because he reserves players have to play really well to get a promotion. If they play average in the NEAFL then that is how they will play in the seniors. Make Close fully earn it before he gets a go, l like it as it sets a higher standard on playing in the 1sts instead of 1 alright game and then in.

yep, he must be continuing to do what he was dropped for. Mitch Hahn and the development coaches would be giving Fagan and the rest of the selection committee plenty of feedback re how the NEAFL guys are going.

 

[lioninthesand]

No close and no improvement to our age / experience profile = another huge flogging, another gutting weekend for supporters and another big hit to our player morale for 2017.

Selections are proving pretty annoying.

 

[Kevvo]

We name the three bests in our NEAFL side and people are annoyed by the selections. Tough crowd. It's fair enough to want Close in, but it's not as if our approach doesn't have a clear rationale.

 

[scoman]

the older players have had years of getting a fair crack though scoman. if you are 24-26 years old and still not showing consistency of performance the odds are you are not going to.

Absolutely and if they arent playing well they should be dropped and made to earn a recall.

My point is more that it is dangerous to gift selection to young players when there are options that would contribute towards what should be the main objective. That is winning games of football. Close and to an extent Barrett would make us more competitive and both are in reasonable form.

At the risk of self indulgence I shall give an example. When I was a younger man, around 22 from memory I had played the last 8 or 9 games of the season in the senior side as a key defender. In the off season our two most senior key defenders moved on and we didnt nessessarily recruit any replacements. We also got a new senior coach. I assumed I would slot into the senior side without any trouble but when the preaseason games began I wasnt in the mix. When questioned it was relayed to me quite bluntly that the new coach didnt rate me and they were going down the youth path. Bear in mind I was 22. Unfortunately I didnt get much of a chance to prove my worth as I injured my ankle in the last preseason game and didnt get on the park for six or so weeks. When I did return I started to string some games togegher in the reserves. My name was put forward for selection and it ince again was conveyed to me that the coach didnt rate me and they were sticking with some younger options. Finally the club captain went into bat for me and alegedly said I was the strongest one on one defender in the club and if we wanted to stop key forwards kicking bags of goals we should select someone who could stop them.
I got.my chance and remember playing a few really good games in a negating role which made my team much more competitive and we had some good wins. I was certainly a limited footballer (which was the issue for our coach) but I played my role far better than the 18 year olds.

In summary we shoukd pick Close as he has the physical presence to make our forward line function.

 

[lioninthesand]

We name the three bests in our NEAFL side and people are annoyed by the selections. Tough crowd. It's fair enough to want Close in, but it's not as if our approach doesn't have a clear rationale.

The ins are fine but we have 6 or 7 very inexperienced players playing at once, we can be competitive with an experienced line up but like this.. we will lose by 80 points. Supporters don't want to see heads drop and for the rot to set in and this year to turn to a blood bath, thats EXACTLY where we are heading with this sort of line up.

Looks to me if youre a high draft pick or considered a young talent, you get gifted games. That's what it looks like.

 

[Kevvo]

The ins are fine but we have 6 or 7 very inexperienced players playing at once, we can be competitive with an experienced line up but like this.. we will lose by 80 points. Supporters don't want to see heads drop and for the rot to set in and this year to turn to a blood bath, thats EXACTLY where we are heading with this sort of line up.

Looks to me if youre a high draft pick or considered a young talent, you get gifted games. That's what it looks like.

So who would you drop?

 

[lions27]

So who would you drop?

C.beams, id love him to prove me wrong but he just hasn't showed enough to date.

 

[snooplions]

Football? What Football? At Festival Hall waiting for Courtney Barnett and then Patti Smith to come on. Excitement.

You poor soul.

 

[M Malice]

Absolutely and if they arent playing well they should be dropped and made to earn a recall.

My point is more that it is dangerous to gift selection to young players when there are options that would contribute towards what should be the main objective. That is winning games of football. Close and to an extent Barrett would make us more competitive and both are in reasonable form.

At the risk of self indulgence I shall give an example. When I was a younger man, around 22 from memory I had played the last 8 or 9 games of the season in the senior side as a key defender. In the off season our two most senior key defenders moved on and we didnt nessessarily recruit any replacements. We also got a new senior coach. I assumed I would slot into the senior side without any trouble but when the preaseason games began I wasnt in the mix. When questioned it was relayed to me quite bluntly that the new coach didnt rate me and they were going down the youth path. Bear in mind I was 22. Unfortunately I didnt get much of a chance to prove my worth as I injured my ankle in the last preseason game and didnt get on the park for six or so weeks. When I did return I started to string some games togegher in the reserves. My name was put forward for selection and it ince again was conveyed to me that the coach didnt rate me and they were sticking with some younger options. Finally the club captain went into bat for me and alegedly said I was the strongest one on one defender in the club and if we wanted to stop key forwards kicking bags of goals we should select someone who could stop them.
I got.my chance and remember playing a few really good games in a negating role which made my team much more competitive and we had some good wins. I was certainly a limited footballer (which was the issue for our coach) but I played my role far better than the 18 year olds.

In summary we shoukd pick Close as he has the physical presence to make our forward line function.

loved that story scoman, what you say makes sense.

while the club makes all the right noises re trying to win every game i feel Fagan/Noble and co have a very firm eye on the future not the present round by round win/loss column. i will place my trust in them that they know what they are doing for our long term competitiveness and eventual flag contention. hopefully in 2-3 years we will all look back and say they knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[davemc_lions]

I wanted either Close or Walker in as well
Although did they star in the seconds? From all accounts the 3 ins where the best players.
You would think with the level drop those who are good AFL players should dominate or push above normal NEAFL players

Yes I agree those high talent/draft picks seem to be getting a better go. Those guys are our future
If your not in that group you need to show they can play better by dominating in the seconds.
Seems it is up to the players to take up the challenge.
I have no problems in that today. On Saturday when the kids get pushed over by a slight breeze maybe I differ

I love to win more games this year, although I think we need to look to 2018 and beyond. Hopefully not too beyond

 

[CarterS]

Saturday's my birthday, a <100 point loss is all I'm after, I'm easy to please. Come on Lions

 

[Len S]

There are some patterns emerging with these selections.

If your a second tier senior player and you arent playing well you will be demoted (fair enough). Bastinac, Harwood, Bell, Bewick, Frost

If you respond by dominating in the NEAFL you will earn promotion (fair enough). Bastinac, Harwood

If you are a young promising player and you arent playing well you will be given time to turn it around (questionable). McStay, Hipwood, Cutler, Taylor, Schache

If you are a promising young player in the NEAFL and you have a dominat game or two you will be promoted (questionable). Clugga, Berry, Cox, Dawson.

Selections will not be made to make the side more competitive only (questionable). Close, Barrett.


I get it, but I worry senior players may become agitated if they feel they arent getting a fair crack. There has been discontenet between the older and younger players before so Fagan has to be careful.

Are you fair dinkum ???Pandering to the likes of Lester, Bastinac,Harwood, Bewick and co.who have served up the same inconsistent rubbish and lack of example for years, if they can't handle it they can go,they have the problem though, that no one else would have them.

 

[Len S]

Can only assume the reason Close isn't in is because he reserves players have to play really well to get a promotion. If they play average in the NEAFL then that is how they will play in the seniors. Make Close fully earn it before he gets a go, l like it as it sets a higher standard on playing in the 1sts instead of 1 alright game and then in.

His work rate was average,relying on size too much.

 

[Nunez]

I think Fagan would bring Close in if he was confident he could do the role he wants him to do. He hasn't dominated in the NEAFL and maybe Hipwood and Schache trained the house down which prompted Fagan to give them another chance at synergy?

I feel we'd do better with Close, but I'll back our coach on this one.

I wonder if Dawson will play as a third tall?

Harwood slots into Cutlers role, Basti into Bells. Unless they're wanting to put Mcstay forward again?

 

[scoman]

Are you fair dinkum ???Pandering to the likes of Lester, Bastinac,Harwood, Bewick and co.who have served up the same inconsistent rubbish and lack of example for years, if they can't handle it they can go,they have the problem though, that no one else would have them.

Not talking about pandering to those players. As I mentioned dropping those players is fair enough. Last year there was talk that the bending over backwards for the younger lads caused a serious division between the group which effected our very best players, Rockliff and Hanley in particular.

 

[Haso]

I wonder how Bell will handle being dropped?

I'm sure he'll make some noise.

 

[Skoob]

 

[carnthemlions]

There are some patterns emerging with these selections.

If your a second tier senior player and you arent playing well you will be demoted (fair enough). Bastinac, Harwood, Bell, Bewick, Frost

If you respond by dominating in the NEAFL you will earn promotion (fair enough). Bastinac, Harwood

If you are a young promising player and you arent playing well you will be given time to turn it around (questionable). McStay, Hipwood, Cutler, Taylor, Schache

If you are a promising young player in the NEAFL and you have a dominat game or two you will be promoted (questionable). Clugga, Berry, Cox, Dawson.

Selections will not be made to make the side more competitive only (questionable). Close, Barrett.


I get it, but I worry senior players may become agitated if they feel they arent getting a fair crack. There has been discontenet between the older and younger players before so Fagan has to be careful.

I think our senior players are all getting a fair crack, it's not as if we have many. What we're seeing is younger players being given priority over fringe players who've been given more opportunities here than they ever would've received somewhere else. Guys like Bewick, Bell, Harwood, and C Beams are on the edge and have to make every post a winner if they want to be here next season. Then you have Bastinac, Frost, and Close who can be decent contributors but won't play if they can't meet certain requirements- could add Lester to that group if he drops off a bit. Clayton and Jansen are probably gone, Walker pretty close to joining them if he can't show that he'll be handy KPD depth (that conversion certainly didn't work for Paine). Barrett might not be very experienced at AFL level, but he'll have to show he's more than a state league level accumulator with few AFL standard attributes. No idea where Paprone is in all that at this point.

 

[alscotoz2]

We already have Close?

I see what you did there!


Wish i was that astute.



However...



Doesn't change my opinion that we'll get flogged.

 

[lioninthesand]

So who would you drop?

Hipwood or schache, and any 3 of clugg, cox, berry and dawson.. or an easier way to explain it, id like us to try and have 2 kids (not incuding a young key tall in the forward line) in any side, not as a rule, but just for balance.

People will argue 'we shouldn't gift those mid tier players games'.. but we need to try and start on the right note... its a hairs width, how close we are to totally disintegrating, at any time, due to our confidence being shot from consecutive beltings.

You cant expect our senior core to carry that many kids, and they wont learn without the confidence that senior players provide.

My main concern is not 'winning' its just preventing hope being lost, heads dropping and this year becoming one of 'those' years, especially as a fairly senior line up was looking ok.

 

[dlanod]

C.beams, id love him to prove me wrong but he just hasn't showed enough to date.

Kevvo's reply was to someone commenting about how inexperienced the team was... And your suggestion was to drop an experienced player?