Scott Welsh leaving

[SA Tricolours]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

With his inconsistent form (week by week and year by year), and with only the occasional very good game, surely a one year contract is all that Welsh should expect. If he can't accept that he can go, and we can give a younger player the opportunity.

 

[macca23]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Macca23, would you offer Welsh a 2 year contract...forget policy, forget age...weighing everything up...would you offer him a 2 year contract?

I know I wouldnt

While Welsh started off asking for an unconditional 2 year contract, the club rightully said no.

However the current status is that Welsh wants a 1 year contract with certain targets and measures - let's call them KPI's - in it and if he achieves his KPI's then and only then does he get the second year of the contract he wanted.

IMO that's totally reasonable.

But the message that the club is currently sending out is that unless you are McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards, we are going to dump you at age 30 no matter how well you are playing - see Hudson, Torney and now Welsh.

That's going to send the shivers down the spine of our rising 28 and 29 year olds, and if they start leaving and going elsewhere, the next step will be that players at younger ages will leave before they get near that age.

I supported the club in axing a club legend in Hart for the right reasons and once again with Clarke for the right reasons.

I understand that Torney was axed for list management reasons, but his form made a mockery of that delistment.

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

 

[swanfan]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

While Welsh started off asking for an unconditional 2 year contract, the club rightully said no.

However the current status is that Welsh wants a 1 year contract with certain targets and measures - let's call them KPI's - in it and if he achieves his KPI's then and only then does he get the second year of the contract he wanted.

IMO that's totally reasonable.

But the message that the club is currently sending out is that unless you are McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards, we are going to dump you at age 30 no matter how well you are playing - see Hudson, Torney and now Welsh.

That's going to send the shivers down the spine of our rising 28 and 29 year olds, and if they start leaving and going elsewhere, the next step will be that players at younger ages will leave before they get near that age.

I supported the club in axing a club legend in Hart for the right reasons and once again with Clarke for the right reasons.

I understand that Torney was axed for list management reasons, but his form made a mockery of that delistment.

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

Spot on .

 

[Mego Red]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

While Welsh started off asking for an unconditional 2 year contract, the club rightully said no.

However the current status is that Welsh wants a 1 year contract with certain targets and measures - let's call them KPI's - in it and if he achieves his KPI's then and only then does he get the second year of the contract he wanted.

IMO that's totally reasonable.

But the message that the club is currently sending out is that unless you are McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards, we are going to dump you at age 30 no matter how well you are playing - see Hudson, Torney and now Welsh.

That's going to send the shivers down the spine of our rising 28 and 29 year olds, and if they start leaving and going elsewhere, the next step will be that players at younger ages will leave before they get near that age.

I supported the club in axing a club legend in Hart for the right reasons and once again with Clarke for the right reasons.

I understand that Torney was axed for list management reasons, but his form made a mockery of that delistment.

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

Best post so far on the subject.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

But the message that the club is currently sending out is that unless you are McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards, we are going to dump you at age 30 no matter how well you are playing - see Hudson, Torney and now Welsh.

That's going to send the shivers down the spine of our rising 28 and 29 year olds, and if they start leaving and going elsewhere, the next step will be that players at younger ages will leave before they get near that age.

I supported the club in axing a club legend in Hart for the right reasons and once again with Clarke for the right reasons.

I understand that Torney was axed for list management reasons, but his form made a mockery of that delistment.

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

Once again Macca, you make perfect sense.

To lower the age of our squad, we delisted a 1st 22 game player who was showing no real signs of slowing down or injuries. Surely it needs to be horses for courses when assessing how many years a player has left? This was different scenario to the delisting of Hart.

 

[Dogga79]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

While Welsh started off asking for an unconditional 2 year contract, the club rightully said no.

However the current status is that Welsh wants a 1 year contract with certain targets and measures - let's call them KPI's - in it and if he achieves his KPI's then and only then does he get the second year of the contract he wanted.

IMO that's totally reasonable.

But the message that the club is currently sending out is that unless you are McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards, we are going to dump you at age 30 no matter how well you are playing - see Hudson, Torney and now Welsh.

That's going to send the shivers down the spine of our rising 28 and 29 year olds, and if they start leaving and going elsewhere, the next step will be that players at younger ages will leave before they get near that age.

I supported the club in axing a club legend in Hart for the right reasons and once again with Clarke for the right reasons.

I understand that Torney was axed for list management reasons, but his form made a mockery of that delistment.

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

I agree with your comments you have made however if I may add....

If the Crows are sending out the wrong message about older players then what message is every other club sending. We will still have one of the older lists in the AFL after a big clean out. Alan Stewart who is widely respected has said that premierships are won by making tough decisions. Well tough decisions are definitely being made. I remember how upset I was when my favorite player Andrew Jarman was axed, but we won the flag the next year. If you are a good player and club man AFC will look after you post football. To me that says volumes about the Crows.

On the Pfeiffer issue which is still simmering away at some supporters, let me quote of all people John Cahill. He said that as he became more experienced as a coach he realized the importance of getting rid of players that had a poor attitude and rocked the boat regardless of talent. It was one of the most damaging things in football to have at your club in his opinion.

Supporters want premierships and if Adelaide thinks this is the best way to achieve that goal then I believe them. Neil Craig and the powers that be just seem to astute and intelligent to make ill thought out decisions ( except Massie on Buddy Franklin). Anyway the quicker we get this bloodletting over with the quicker everyone can look forward to players like Walker, Tippett, Sellar or whoever you support at getting some more game time.

 

[Tails14]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Great post dogga !!! The politics of it all must stay inhouse and let craigy work with the incoming and existing talent with players that want to be there for the right reasons..the AFC !!! It must be unsettling at this time of the year for all players concerned and as most clubs have had off field problems this year and as much as the media helps build the players up to be superhuman and sometimes they start to believe the articles as soon as a mistake is made the same media jump straight on top to crucify you.... as my ol man always said football is played on grass and the rest is bullshit...we are all human and make mistakes but as good as peter brock was the tree did not know his name !

 

[Mismatched]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Good post dogga, whilst there does seem to be a few things going on here, we definitely don't know the whole story and in years to come this may be viewed as a master stroke, just like it was in 96/97. It could turn out to be a god send that we lose a few of these elderly backbone players as much as we love them.

This is really the clean out that was expected post Ayres era, instead of coming in 04 however it has come in 07, 3 years later. Whilst this may turn out to be a bad thing for the club, it could also quite possibly be a good thing.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

On the Pfeiffer issue which is still simmering away at some supporters, let me quote of all people John Cahill. He said that as he became more experienced as a coach he realized the importance of getting rid of players that had a poor attitude and rocked the boat regardless of talent. It was one of the most damaging things in football to have at your club in his opinion.

John Cahill's model citizen's club! This was the group of players (in Cahill's second stint) that even corrupted Simon Tregenza! As long as players did what Jack expected on the field, he was less than onerous in his expectations of their off-field behaviour. Nobody's sure yet what Pfeiffer can do on-field tho. And he never chased any player off for being too old.

 

[Crow-mo]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Players Manager: we received no offers , the market lied

it's ok, naivety appeals to some people.

 

[Crow-mo]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

FB forgive me if Im wrong , but are you his manager and your pumping his tyres up to get a better deal at the AFC?

2 masterly contributions in a row!

 

[- PC -]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

2 masterly contributions in a row!

I cant wait till you bump the 3rd one...Im waiting with baited breath

 

[Crow-mo]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

If it wasnt for sides like the dogs and dees, there would be no crows! You would be at sanfl game in your bon jovi t-shirt, stonewash jeans and eating pie floaters

davo, leave the thinking to others better placed huh?

 

[- PC -]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

it's ok, naivety appeals to some people.

2 masterly contributions in a row!

I dont believe Welsh will be playing anywhere else but Adelaide next year. I believe this is the usual managers tactic of talking up his client by saying other clubs are interested.

If I am wrong I wholeheartedly endorse you to bump this to show everyone I was wrong

Then you and Scotty Clayton can have a laugh about it

 

[relapse]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

The club is becoming rediculously autocratic.

No wonder people were saying crowbots, seems like the AFC is a becoming a regimented sterile enviornment.

Maybe the club needs to look towards becoming more versatile, instead of black and white rules, because the inflexibility that seems to be happening in the coaching box (massie) also seems to be also occuring with player management.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I think we should rename Crow Mo - Oscar the Grouch. Never seen a more glass is half empty, obsessive pessimist in my life. Instead of contributing to threads with intelligent comments that add to the discussion, Oscar can only manage half-witty digs at fellow posters, using langauge gleaned from a thesaurus. Shame Oscar, shame.

For what it's worth PC, I agree with you... I too think this is an exercise by Welsh's management to better his position, similar to the one they conducted last year.

Agreed.

While it's unfortunate that these incidents have all been happening at once, they are all the right moves to make and are all part of the club putting its foot down on players who don't tip the scales in terms of talent and/or value to the team, especially in the long term.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

It's not just the message being sent to the players that is the worry, it is the message that is being sent to the other clubs in the competition. With any 27-29 year old on our list a rival club will know that they can offer greater job security and trump whatever contract offer the AFC has put towards them. Who wouldn't be targeting our senior players at the end of 2008?

The club's policy probably seemed fine in 2005/2006 when we were up the top of the ladder, winning games and were a premiership threat. All players would want to stay at the club, whether they could get a slightly better deal elsewhere or not. An eighth finish this season and the prospect of perhaps sliding further down the ladder next season and it (staying) is not such an attractive proposition anymore.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I quite like the policy but I think the AFC have gone overboard with it. It appears now it doesn't only apply to players 30 or over, age appears to be irrelevant. The AFC should have offered both Mattner and Hudson at least a two year contract. However, I have an inkling you may be right with the Hudson situation but to allow Marty Mattner to walk and get next to nothing in return reeks of incompetence and dangerous stubborness.

Just a question on the policy - does it prevent us from offering a 28 year old a three year deal because that would take them beyond 30?

In other words do we only offer a long-term (2 years or more) up until a player's 30th birthday then start offering one year deals after that?

 

[mb2326]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Just a question on the policy - does it prevent us from offering a 28 year old a three year deal because that would take them beyond 30?

In other words do we only offer a long-term (2 years or more) up until a player's 30th birthday then start offering one year deals after that?

I would like to know who on earth is going to kick goals next year if Welch leaves. Trent Hentschell cannot be relied upon, he suffered one of the worst knee injuries ever and its still doubtful whether his body can even cope at AFL level. and Nick Gill at 25 years of age has never kicked more than 2 goals in a game.

Well done AFC for having such regimented rediculous methods to further screw the club and its supporters.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

FB forgive me if Im wrong , but are you his manager and your pumping his tyres up to get a better deal at the AFC?

Ha Ha, wish I was mate. Although it seems his manager is doing a great job as it is. Would be happy to reveal my sources, just not on Big Footy.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

While Welsh started off asking for an unconditional 2 year contract, the club rightully said no.

However the current status is that Welsh wants a 1 year contract with certain targets and measures - let's call them KPI's - in it and if he achieves his KPI's then and only then does he get the second year of the contract he wanted.

IMO that's totally reasonable.

But the message that the club is currently sending out is that unless you are McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards, we are going to dump you at age 30 no matter how well you are playing - see Hudson, Torney and now Welsh.

That's going to send the shivers down the spine of our rising 28 and 29 year olds, and if they start leaving and going elsewhere, the next step will be that players at younger ages will leave before they get near that age.

I supported the club in axing a club legend in Hart for the right reasons and once again with Clarke for the right reasons.

I understand that Torney was axed for list management reasons, but his form made a mockery of that delistment.

I just hope that the policies and comments of the club and the events of the after season this year are not sending the wrong signal to the younger players in our team - particularly the interstaters.

Yeah, great post I agree with you 100%. I think depth is a huge factor in who stays and who goes. Some people have posted on here saying if they arent top class 30 year olds they have no problems with them being flicked. Maybe, but if you have no forwards at all, losing a bloke like Welsh is going to sting with our lack of forward depth. On the other hand, losing Torney or B.Hart wont hurt us as much as we have an abundance of half backs. Which is why a club like Wbulldogs with no forwards at all would love a 29 yr old proven goal kicker and taking a punt with a 2 year deal makes good sense. It really is a case of being in the right team at the right time when you hit your late 20,s

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Good post dogga, whilst there does seem to be a few things going on here, we definitely don't know the whole story and in years to come this may be viewed as a master stroke, just like it was in 96/97. It could turn out to be a god send that we lose a few of these elderly backbone players as much as we love them.

This is really the clean out that was expected post Ayres era, instead of coming in 04 however it has come in 07, 3 years later. Whilst this may turn out to be a bad thing for the club, it could also quite possibly be a good thing.

You are spot on. This is the clean out we should of had after Ayres. But, Neil Craig was that good he made us a force again. Cant blame Neil. Cause we waited an extra 3 years, the mess is going to be bigger to clean

 

[Jars458]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

IWell done AFC for having such regimented rediculous methods to further screw the club and its supporters.

Yes I am sure Stephen Trigg, John Reid et al are trying to screw the club and it supporters

Each player treated on a case by case basis. There is no regimented rule other than now contract over one year for 30 year olds. I am sure Nathan Bassatt will be offered a new contract when he is 30 for example

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Just a question on the policy - does it prevent us from offering a 28 year old a three year deal because that would take them beyond 30?

In other words do we only offer a long-term (2 years or more) up until a player's 30th birthday then start offering one year deals after that?

See McLeod's last longer term deal which was signed just before his birthday

 

[BlackDouglas]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

From my understanding Scott Welsh basically has until Tuesday the 27th of November to make up his mind. This is when the uncontracted listed player can nominate for the draft.

Does anyone know the time line the crows have put to him?